**POSSIBLE** changes to TWLB. Feedback required.

[Undercut]

We would like to implement a few changes to the TWBD and ?go base arenas for testing for TWLB. These changes are not permanent and can and will be reverted if the feedback given for them is mostly negative. We hope that you come into these with an open mind and give your honest and thoughtful feedback after testing. These changes have not gone live yet, but I will update this thread when they do.

Here are the changes we will be adding to the arenas.
- No positive green spawns (meaning no full charge/shrapnel, no burst, no portal, no repel)
- Terriers periodically prized bursts every 60 seconds and portals every 120 seconds
- Sharks should rotate between zero shrapnel and three shrapnel on death. Start with zero shrapnel. Currently there is 53% chance to spawn with 3 shrapnel or greater, this would normalize it to be consistent with the statistical average without "nerfing" the ship too much.
- No shrapnel or rocket for javelin

[Turban]

Here are the original item drop chances on a per green basis in TWLB:

MultiFire	44.35%
X-Radar	8.70%
Shrapnel	17.39%
Repel	17.39%
Burst	8.70%
Portal	3.48%

Shrapnel drops are changed to Full Charge when picked up by the following basing ships: Warbird, Spider, Terrier, and Lancaster.

X-Radar drops are changed to Full Charge when picked up by following ships basing ships: Warbird, Spider, and Lancaster. Terrier will be granted an X-Radar drop even when picked up by another ship.

[Turban]

We would also look into implementing a countdown timer for Terriers to have clear view on when their next set of bursts or portals will be given, and could even extend this information (in a non-intrusive way) to other players. The prizing intervals are subject to change, but we are settling for these starting numbers for the time being as it is rather close to the average one should get during a match.

[Majorcrisis2]

I am against all. Eating greens is part of the battle. Pushy spiders get rewarded with full charges, without its a whole different battle. For example tj hazuki pushed behind jamal out of cram last sunday. He got the enemy down. Most likely he got a fc there, without it, its a suicide mission and people would rather camp i think.

prized bursts and ports is lame too. If you get pushed down as team you have the option to collect greens to get these stuff and your terr has a greater chance of surviving. Ogron last weekend wouldnt probably have survived with the prized ports, because he lacked ports then. (he had like 3 escapes in 2 minutes), yes ofc its 'random' with the greens, but without the greens you will eliminate a lot. The randomness is part of basing.

Sharks.. If you start with or without shrap, you still have to bomb first to know. (or am i stupid eh). If you green them, you have much more chance to actually aim these shraps. Unless you get these greens like in elim with jav, that's notable how much shrap you have etc. The extra rep is fun, enemy can misscount on that, makes it special. I feel like you guys want to make basing plain boring.

[Rab]

Is there a reason for not starting sharks with the same shrap level every spawn? That seems the most "normalized" way of doing it. Why leave that element of randomness in the game?

Sharks.. If you start with or without shrap, you still have to bomb first to know. (or am i stupid eh).

The bomb icon is different depending if you have shrap or not.
There's also a command to let you know your current shrap level, but I can't remember what it is.

[Turban]

The point is more so to make it consistent so every second death you have access to make plays with shrapnel which is usually the average anyway with current settings. Shrapnel is a powerful weapon in the right hands. Another option is have always three shrapnel, but that is probably too much power given to the ship.

?status is the command you are looking for, but sharks will be prized shrap upon spawning (sound notice, and 4 bounty) which adds additional means to see current shrapnel status.

[Rab]

Seeking clarification on your earlier statement "Shrapnel is synonymous with Full Charge".
Does this mean when the shrap prizes are given that the shark also gets fc prizes?
Checking this because the "bot does something when someone spawns" has a habit of being laggy, so a shark might attach before the prizes are given, if they got an fc that'd be significant.

[Turban]

Sharks can not get Full Charges, so they get Shrapnel instead from drops.

[Undercut]

Seeking clarification on your earlier statement "Shrapnel is synonymous with Full Charge".
Does this mean when the shrap prizes are given that the shark also gets fc prizes?
Checking this because the "bot does something when someone spawns" has a habit of being laggy, so a shark might attach before the prizes are given, if they got an fc that'd be significant.

Sharks can only receive shrapnel greens, while spiders can only receive full charges. They're put into the spot on the drop table for greens so it just depends on what ship you're in for which one you get. When a shark greens shrapnel they are not given a full charge.

[Rab]

cool ty, looking forward to testing these changes

[Turban]

There has been a lot of changes over the years many of which have then been accepted as the new standard.

Shrapnel used to fly in random patterns back in the day, and would fly to different directions on all players clients. We changed it to fly at set pattern, inspired by a javelin map called Shrap, and after a while people loved the change.

Bullets used to deal random damage too, as far as I remember. This was changed, some people complained, but eventually accepted it was for the better.

Full charges existed in dueling leagues and was removed despite many being against the changes. Now I doubt no one would want to revert back to the old green system.

We are not looking to change everything we propose, and chances are only one or two changes will end up being implemented to our leagues. It is worth testing nonetheless.

[Dabram]

Some good ideas, I already stated my lengthier opinion in other thread (I agree with MC and others that some randomness doesn't hurt basing at all. I think the veteran players also cope better with those elements.. And sure some games get turned over by some freakish luck, but that's the sauce that keeps basing interesting instead of becoming monotone.)

- Spiders: FC greens are imo important strategy for aggressive spiders.. Spiders who camp can't really use this strategy, very important to give aggressive spiders that (only) edge! I'd say test it out, crams will become more difficult to break.
- Terr; I like the idea of a change. I'd prefer no more team greens, and only own greens (burst/portal/fc) as it feels a bit more strategic..? Timed burst/portal is also a nice idea.
- Sharks; Rotating shrap sounds interesting (is this possible even?), better than random shrap. I'd still let sharks green their shraps/repels. If as shark you manage to green up, you should be rewarded from time to time..
- Javelin without rocket = no more jav in basing (does anyone really use it anymore?). Though I fucking hate the lag effect on a repped rocketing jav, so I wouldn't mind seeing it gone in TWLB..

It's good to be open for experiments though!

[Turban]

Some good ideas, I already stated my lengthier opinion in other thread (I agree with MC and others that some randomness doesn't hurt basing at all. I think the veteran players also cope better with those elements.. And sure some games get turned over by some freakish luck, but that's the sauce that keeps basing interesting instead of becoming monotone.)

- Spiders: FC greens are imo important strategy for aggressive spiders.. Spiders who camp can't really use this strategy, very important to give aggressive spiders that (only) edge! I'd say test it out, crams will become more difficult to break.
- Terr; I like the idea of a change. I'd prefer no more team greens, and only own greens (burst/portal/fc) as it feels a bit more strategic..? Timed burst/portal is also a nice idea.
- Sharks; Rotating shrap sounds interesting (is this possible even?), better than random shrap. I'd still let sharks green their shraps/repels. If as shark you manage to green up, you should be rewarded from time to time..
- Javelin without rocket = no more jav in basing (does anyone really use it anymore?). Though I fucking hate the lag effect on a repped rocketing jav, so I wouldn't mind seeing it gone in TWLB..

It's good to be open for experiments though!

It is possible to prevent terriers from obtaining full charge prizes from their team by removing Shrapnel from the drop table and adding their drop value to X-Radar. This change would allow spiders to still get full charges from greens where as terriers would not get any full charges. This is definitely something we can consider too as one of the options.

And it is rather easy to rotate shrapnel per death and does not require much effort coding wise.

[Heaven]

Just thinking about it... I feel like terrs are being massively crippled by removing full charge and greened ports/bursts. Those options are literally what keep a terr alive in fr battles. With the new settings the moment a shark is DOA'd, would seem like the majority of the time, its going to be GG for that team in fr. The spids will just rush out and terr is sitting there with dick in hand cause the 1min timer isnt up for a burst. Not to mention bursts would no longer be used as much as part of fr battles unless ur getting pushed. Ex: if spids died together or a shark DOA i could just burst flag preventing a push but now if i know i wont get a burst for anotger 40 seconds ill have to retreat to ear or side bar giving up fr.. I can only burst if im getting another one within 5 seconds where i know i can retreat and protect myself as 2nd option instead of 1st... Idk just feels like the whole idea of fr battles gonna go downhill with these changes. Its changing to better cram hold wins.

Can we stack bursts or do we lose a burst if we dont use it in within the 1min?

Imo these changes are advantageous to spids and crippling for terrs

[Kim]

Can we take this one step further and put a clock up for when the terrs are periodically prized these greens? If we want that knowledge to be known, might as well put in on the fore front and have it be incorporated into the strategy of the teams.
Also, if terrs have to grab their own, I agree that sharks have to green their way up to shrap. It gives some strategy in terms of either dying off or greening for shrap.