**POSSIBLE** changes to TWLB. Feedback required.

[warbirdmaster#1]

lol "fortunate", eat shit. I've been the best terr in this game for 5 years. nobody is "willing" to start me in anything, i left Thunder before to start elsewhere in TWLB instead of benching and earned my spot outplaying everyone else at the position. honestly you sound like every bitter scrub who thinks there's some conspiracy against them and they'd win if someone just added them. the reality is you're a dice bencher who was content having the "Dice" tag instead of starting elsewhere and earning a title. Thunder banned Cintra and benched Cape -- two of the greatest terrs of all-time. There's no free rides here. The best player's start. I've been benched and booted from Thunder/Pandora, too. There's no friendship discounts. If I don't perform S22 I'll be riding the pine for someone else, I'm sure.

Keep telling yourself whatever you want, though.

I didn't say the decision should be based solely on those terrs, only that their feedback is extremely valuable, and should carry more weight. there's a short timeframe, and you need people who can push the changes to the ship to their maximum fast, i.e., testing the limits of double-bursting at :01, how it feels in the cram, when you're up, when you're down, terrs who use their ports efficiency to get a real feel for the 2 minute gap, hunting enemy terrs who used their burst knowing they don't have one, and seeing if it works.

99% of the zone won't be doing any of that, and their opinion on how terr plays is of little value from the terr perspective.

From the spider perspective, it's been mostly positive or neutral from most players. Most can't even tell the difference.

LoL champions that aren't broken in Bronze/Silver/Gold but at the top level in Diamond are broken get nerfed -- you go by the top players, not the bottom ones for balance changes. Mikkiz's opinion is worth way more than Heaven's in terms of useful feedback, because if a change is broken, it's way more likely Mikkiz will find it than he will.

Yeah, let's give Jessup and Jebass the same voting weight as Cripple and Trasher. Good idea, man. Forum voting has to be the dumbest idea I can think of.

Honestly, I don't care that much, I'll play under the old settings or the new ones, but the new ones are interesting, fairer, and require more talent and if you're a spider you should be in love with the changes as they're a godsend once you realize how to play around the clock.

Coming back to the game after a few years to see that you've improved vastly and proclaimed to be the best terr in the last 5 years. I applaud you for that if it were true.

The past is the past, and thanks for the history lesson as to who can bench more. Obviously me.

I'm just saying the new settings take away something special from the game, the randomness it provides to make the LULZ moments in games. I don't want to play the game with a fucking calculator beside me.

If we can find a middle ground for this, I'd be glad to accept these changes.

Would adding back greened burst/portals for terr at a lower rate alongside with the timely prized port/burst a possibility?

[Jones]

Think how much bandwith we could save if we scrapped base and there wouldnt be huge threads like these with 10s of pages of essays

[Turban]

What these changes essentially accomplish is neutralizing some elements of randomness from a competitive basing match while adding more depth and strategy to the league as a whole which includes all ships. There are a lot of unexplored options you can take advantage of with the new settings most of which are largely ignored by a chunk of our players who tend to be more casual in nature and far less invested into the game. All things considered it is a positive change, and this is based on what I have gathered from more invested players when looking at the change from a more competitive point of view, however there was also a fair amount of negative comments in the mix with several opposing all proposed changes.

We have definitely been listening to all of the player feedback and we fully understand there is a good reason for this negative uproar as it does essentially change terrier to more strategy based, as you need to be smarter with the use of your special items, rather than being a reactionary and chaotic ship which, admittedly, can be more fun of an experience. It is not as fair by any means, but in return it does create very few memorable or outright magical moments every now for one of the teams which many think fondly of.

If there is an overwhelming negative wave from our competitive players after the leagues, or I suppose another one like this from more casual players, we can always revert the changes back after the league has ended. It is very important that during the premier league of our zone all participating players have access to practice on the league settings and for this reason temporarily changing settings for our two primary training arenas, which in this case is Base and TWBD, is absolutely necessary.

[Turban]

Would adding back greened burst/portals for terr at a lower rate alongside with the timely prized port/burst a possibility?

Most certainly an option to consider, but it would be after the leagues as some players and current head of the league feels that making any more changes this close to the season start is detrimental and thus should not be done on such a short notice.

As an added note, forum voting is one of the worst ways of figuring out what the community wants, and thus if there would be a vote we would likely take the same approach as we did with resolution limits and gather opinions in-game which has a much wider target audience plus we could exclude players who have little to no experience in the league.

[Dreamwin]

oh, i didn't read 2 pages of this... i don't support this new change at all... why randomly change it after a month of testing and good feedback? total nonsense.

there's 3 active TWLB champion terrs: me, mikkiz, and thix. cape isn't active and probably doesn't care, and trasher is same level terr but he only spiders in TWLB. of the top 5-6 terrs of the last 10 years, only cintra is retired.

the opinions that have the most weight are therefore: Mikkiz, Ogron, Thix. If Trasher or Cape chimed in, their opinions are definitely relevant.

Mikkiz and me really like the 120 and 60 second timers: it makes terring harder, requires more skill, and is always fair (you don't get too many bursts/ports or too few). you can play around and use the timers to your advantage (so can spiders who are smart).

Also if you've ever been suspicious of the amount of bursts some terrs get, you should be for this. You can't cheat a system that grants set amounts of burst.

Thix is against it. Most spiders I've talked to are fine with the terr changes. The negative uproar was 99% around removing greens for other ships and shrap, unrelated to the terr changes.

The terr changes are great and should be kept, just need a port/burst 2:00 minute timer on the overlay.

The only person who actually plays the game and knows how to terr and is against it is Thix. The other 2 terrs who play at a high level are for it.

The feedback I've seen is mostly positive on the terr change.

I don't know why you would randomly change it to some new weird system.

Either keep the current system you've put in, which has broad support, or keep all the old settings and change nothing. You can't randomly drop in a new friggin system 1 week before TWL. Make a choice.

Hello, TWLB champion (+multiple finalist) terrier here speaking. This is irrelevant though..

It's weard because I have only heard a few players who are positive about the change. My experience is that pretty much everyone I asked is against this specific TERRIER CHANGE. For example, I was playing 2x 8vs8 twbd's some time ago and asked after the games how ppl felt about these terrier changes. The votes were 7-0 against it.

I dont have enough time or energy right now to try bring out logical arguements but I'll tell turb my views in-game in finnish at some point. In my opinion the feedback shouldn't be measured by how logical it is in this matter, it is pretty important to note how players feel like when they are playing the game.

[Ricko]

going to be sat there with my phone on 60s and 120s alarms next to me when I'm playing TWLB. Winning.

[Turban]

There will be a timer in the coming days for easier visualization, but for now the best way to keep track is to look at top-right corner for the overall timer.

[Poseidon]

as far as this goes

neutralizing some elements of randomness from a competitive basing match while adding more depth and strategy to the league as a whole which includes all ships.

its prob not possible to have the timer start once the terr actually places a port or uses a burst, eh? if not then maybe at least when a terr dies that specific terrs timer could reset, making the game less homogenized? if the timer were non-global like this, then the timer visual aid for your teams terr could be made to be only available to your team - each team has a separate timer. this adds depth as players who are more aware of the enemy terrs usage of prizes have a competitive edge instead of dumbing it down with a global timer.

the specific mechanics have prob been discussed somewhere in this post but i havent read through all of it, so my b if i missed it

[Hulk]

New terr changes make sense. Only thing I dislike is the fact they don't get FC's. The periodic ports/bursts do make it infinitely more balanced though. Also, blue shrap from sharks should be removed such a fucking dumb mechanic.

Edit: Or keep settings and give terrs more health

[Sulla]

new terr change is pretty bad. it courages ppl hide even more and use specials... wbs seems a good choice now and ruins BD thx.

[Hulk]

New changes has nothing to do with wb. You guys juss suck dick =\

[Gkyde1234]

Do ports and bursts stack? So if the terr wants to save the items

[Pressure]

only passive terrs benefit from these changes, which is why they are adamantly speaking out about how great the changes are. the changes fit their play style.

There will be a timer in the coming days for easier visualization

so we're just going to spoon-feed everyone playing the game now? i thought the point of implementing this change was to force terrs to "strategize" - but what strategy remains if you're just going to tell everyone in the arena when greens are being prized? the only strategy i can see coming of this is the decision of when to or not to use a burst/port... but that same strategy existed before these changes, so i still dont see the point

truly taking all the skill out of terr with everyone of these decisions... disappointing af

we used to not know when an enemy terr had prized greens. you had to play every minute on high-alert because at any moment your opponent could get a burst/port and, if good enough, could literally turn the game around for their team with that green. now everyone will know when you have a port or burst. so you terrs ive been vsing are even more predictable to play against than you were before. i just dont see how this makes terr harder.

all i care about is the integrity of the ship i've played for 20 years and im watching it be destroyed by people who dont even really play it. this whole situation is just pretty sad tbh, and u can tell that there is something missing from the games. looks like the changes are here to stay though and i just dont have the political power or time/willpower to fight it.

[Falconeer]

Most certainly an option to consider, but it would be after the leagues as some players and current head of the league feels that making any more changes this close to the season start is detrimental and thus should not be done on such a short notice.

As an added note, forum voting is one of the worst ways of figuring out what the community wants, and thus if there would be a vote we would likely take the same approach as we did with resolution limits and gather opinions in-game which has a much wider target audience plus we could exclude players who have little to no experience in the league.

Yeah exclude more people, good call.

Forum voting is not where you have the votes, you setup a vote like qan did in game, probably right in the basing arena, and *anyone* who has 500 usage and 5 or 10 games played in the arena can vote. Keep in mind this would exclude my vote. For the record my vote would be having some compromise. Something like bursts given every 70 seconds but also rewarded through greens at a 15% chance. And that's for testing, if after testing it sucks you can change the values, or even test different values going in.

P.S the be all and end all of knowledge in the game is not limited to playing league, especially not for people who played subspace 20+ years and who are 35 and have working brains. pretty damn easy to spec 1 base game and take away all the terrier/shark strategies, as well as determine what works/doesn't work well without even playing just from 20 years of playing subspace in general. people who think they are special because they played league... sigh.

and that goes for most people? i assume you are all capable like i am, maybe i am naive and people are really dumb out there? if so, all i can say is your strategies in league are not ninja secrets held for thousands of years...

[Heaven]

only passive terrs benefit from these changes, which is why they are adamantly speaking out about how great the changes are. the changes fit their play style.



so we're just going to spoon-feed everyone playing the game now? i thought the point of implementing this change was to force terrs to "strategize" - but what strategy remains if you're just going to tell everyone in the arena when greens are being prized? the only strategy i can see coming of this is the decision of when to or not to use a burst/port... but that same strategy existed before these changes, so i still dont see the point

truly taking all the skill out of terr with everyone of these decisions... disappointing af

we used to not know when an enemy terr had prized greens. you had to play every minute on high-alert because at any moment your opponent could get a burst/port and, if good enough, could literally turn the game around for their team with that green. now everyone will know when you have a port or burst. so you terrs ive been vsing are even more predictable to play against than you were before. i just dont see how this makes terr harder.

all i care about is the integrity of the ship i've played for 20 years and im watching it be destroyed by people who dont even really play it. this whole situation is just pretty sad tbh, and u can tell that there is something missing from the games. looks like the changes are here to stay though and i just dont have the political power or time/willpower to fight it.

there's still literally only ogron and mikkiz for the change... vs every other fucking terr that plays twl/twbd/go base yet still these changes are being considered. sure i understand claus's point that him/mikki/thix/cape opinions should hold slightly more value but that would be in a case where the voting was close like if were 60%/40% and that 40% contained 3/4 valued terrs but this this literally fucking 95%/5% against the change of people who have tried terr with new settings. new terr settings are boring as hell.

stop delaying and revert this crap already