Fun Fact - Nasty cheated to get their playoff spot (Official Appeal)

[Leland]

have a great weekend

[Crescent Seal]

fuck claus, did you really need to go back through the TWL site and TWL forum to sweep through every scorebox to prove a point? You need to cool off with getting so pent up over a petty argument or you'll have an early grave my friend.

this ^

gettin kind of scary bud

[Dierienow]

Why it wasn't cheating:

Ok so 'Mhz' posts 4 games, one of them quite recent (but >24 hours) the rest happening weeks ago or whatever. One of qan's replies dealt with this fact, which I thought was not necessary because the game in question happened two days before, the rest of the games were just further examples. Maybe an argument could be made that this thread and discussion could've happened weeks earlier but since it didn't that time has past. Surely if someone's reporting on multiple events or situations then they're allowed to report after the most recent, giving some leeway because it was only 48 hours after. Either way I didn't consider it a mitigating or supporting factor

Next is the question of what crime was committed. RaCka either knowingly circumvented the rules (seems likely) or was unaware of a supposedly outdated (and copy + pasted) rule that states any borrowed 5 or 6* player must be a straight 6 star across all leagues. This of course is incongruent with the meaning of the rating system: either we accept that the rating system (in its current implementation.. there should be more ratings available according to consensus) is flawed in at least one way pertaining to overall skill level or the rating is an all-encompassing assessment of skill in a particular ship and the rule doesn't make sense (because if it's decided that you're a 6 that presumably takes into account all possibly relevant factors). Furthermore, why should this rule apply only to these two ratings? The thing about measuring human ability is that it usually falls into a normal distrbution.. so naturally there could only be a few 10 stars but a lot of 6 and 7*'s. If you're trying to make a curve it makes more sense to have more segments of that curve, like if there was a 1-10 system there are now 10 segments instead of 5, allowing more accurate distribution. Out of 100 there's even more segments, but 10 should be fine. It should take extreme effort to reach either a 1 or a 10, not because those numbers mean anything, but because it's necessarily a comparison. A 1 should be many times rarer than a 3 or 5 as should a 10. Most people can rate people instinctively well enough, but if you now have to sort people in groups by skill level it gets a bit harder, especially with more people. The more people the more difficult, which can be circumvented by the ladder process. This game doesn't have many players so you could probably group them all from 1 to 10 kind of like you do now.

Seeing as how the rule is useless it doesn't make sense to enforce it if the desire is to encourage people to play and see the best teams playing. The onus should be on staff to make the rules sensible and rather impervious to abuse. If anything it's a jab at staff for having useless rules. Ogron said the rule is a carry over from when he was vetting everything himself which basically means he was evaluating everything personally and the rule wasn't really followed (my interpretation). Why it would be like that either I don't know, perhaps because nobody can agree on ratings and shit like that.

But at the end the question of RaCka and Nasty cheating is inconsequential because the only game where big 'destruct' had a good performance was a blowout already. Therefore despite the fact that the useless rule was broken it had no material impact on the outcome of the match most likely.

People say that Mhz is digging through scoreboxes and shit but I see his side as well. He only included it on like the last line but it is possible that Power threw that match. If you accuse people of throwing a match there is hardly anything you can do to convince people. Unless you had some proof of it there would be no way to convince people hard enough to have anything done. Yet if you have actual evidence that they broke a rule there's a better chance at getting justice.

At the end of the day the loser is this game's competitive integrity again. I don't blame the players who will endlessly abuse terrible rules because even if you removed one there are thousand others.. when you could just fix the rules. Imo this really came down to the fact that the rule was terrible.. it shouldn't matter your score in other leagues and I feel like anyone half intelligent who read the rules would immediately see the stupidity of that rule. In a way he is doing the game a favour because without some controversy staff would probably never change it, just copy paste it from season to season until someone did exactly what RaCka did. It's not a highway robbery like some other controversies, destruct shouldn't have been playing but it didn't have a huge impact. Just what I think, willing to hear other views.

[ronaldinho]

Don't makes me laugh, Saari has been the main problem of this drama and qan cleverly ignored this fact. I wonder if the dude is the retard brother of qan's wife or literaly his boyfriend. He is incredibly stupid and unable. The fact "rules are short and lack of clarity" doesn't excuse the fact a team was allowed to cheat thanks to LC's approval. Staff has been horendous during this shit, the only good part is the clear conclusion made by qan.

[ogron]

Glad to see Qan step in and make the right call. I heard Henry was of the same mind as well.

Good job staff.

[Voth]

best part of this thread was ogron thinking he holds a candle to mhz.



(for the record, i'm way worse than both of them)

[paradise!]

the losers will always expose themselves

U Guys should be the disqualified u fkn idiet cheeter idiet fuk

[ronaldinho]

Quality post, I'm convinced and thanks for taking problems into consideration for future leagues. Just my 2 cents please don't insert the double elimination bracket, nobody want thunder/cobra every season, if one lose in semi then good bye it's someone else turn.

[qan]

This appeal has been denied.

First, a precedent has been set to require appeals to be submitted within 24 hours. (This will be codified in future seasons to make it clearer.) Having an unlimited duration to make an appeal encourages anyone who doesn't like a later outcome to attempt to find justifications for replays in games from several weeks past. This doesn't add value to the league, and makes things overly complicated for league ops.

The rules for TWDT have always been slightly loose. This has advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, it allows ops to make calls to promote high-quality play. On the other, it opens up issues of accountability and fairness. The rules have not been changed or reviewed thoroughly in quite some time. A review and updating of the rules before another season runs is a clear necessity.

On behalf of league ops and staff generally, I'd like to apologize for not having the rules more clearly stated, and for remaining silent on some issues.

The most difficult is the case of Cyclone. As Ogron clearly demonstrated in past leagues, Cyclone intentionally throws games. He does just well enough to make you think he's not throwing, when in fact he is. He was a legend in EG for doing this for years. In TW base games it's particularly obvious ... he shoots walls and intentionally rams team mines with the intention of causing game-changing TKs. And the smoking gun, at least for me: I have personally seen him admit, in public, that he gets joy out of lowering the quality of games for the "elites" of SS, whom he despises. It was a bad mistake to allow him to play TWDT, and extremely unfortunate that he had to be drafted by one of the teams. However, he hasn't broken any TWDT rules specifically, so banning him from the league seemed extreme and unfair, especially as letting him in was our mistake in the first place. So, instead, the decision was made to allow him to remain on the bench, and to allow borrows to make a full game even in the case of Cyclone being available to play. (NOTE: He will not be playing in future TW leagues. You can call out #justiceforcyclone if you'd like. He's admitted to intentionally trying to ruin leagues, and has no plans to change, no matter what he tells you. He has no place in any TW league whatsoever.)

The next decision involved borrowing. Two rules regarding borrowing have been suspended at the discretion of league ops this season, in the interest of playing quality games.

First is that borrows can only be made in the case that it would result in a forfeit. So for example, in a base game, if team A has 5 players and team B has 8, team A can borrow a maximum of one (and only one) player to make 6v8 and prevent a forfeit. Then the game is played normally. I think we can all agree that this rule is a bit harsh, and comes from an era when show rates were higher and competition was more vicious, with winning at any cost being more important than playing a good match. Almost nobody is interested in playing a 6v8 or even 7v8 game, especially in 2018. It's just not competitive or interesting. So, with the agreement of both captains, borrows were allowed even when an automatic forfeit would not result.

The other borrowing rule that was temporarily suspended states that a player who is 7* or above in any league can't be borrowed, even if they're 6* in the league in which they are to be borrowed. Each time this was done, both captains agreed to suspend this rule. Also, considering that in practice 6* really means anything from 1* to 6*, and is a face-saving "everyone gets a trophy" measure to make people feel as though they're not below average, this rule makes even less sense: someone could be a 7* Jav, rated 6* in base but in actuality be a 4* baser.

Apologies that this has taken so long, but at least we've had another good drama thread to look forward to reading over morning coffee, right? Thanks for your patience.

[RaCka]

the losers will always expose themselves

[beam]

Recommend both team captains take Commodo's compromise offer into consideration and agree to it for changes to schedule to be made. That should be fun and in spirit of the competition. Otherwise an official ruling on whether to forfeit the games should follow asap. Goes without saying that staff members implicated in breaking league rules in question should be abstaining from voting on the matter.

if you people care at all about the future of this game please never let this guy be in charge of anything again

[skyforger]

Recommend both team captains take Commodo's compromise offer into consideration and agree to it for changes to schedule to be made. That should be fun and in spirit of the competition. Otherwise an official ruling on whether to forfeit the games should follow asap. Goes without saying that staff members implicated in breaking league rules in question should be abstaining from voting on the matter.

[Ricko]

fuck claus, did you really need to go back through the TWL site and TWL forum to sweep through every scorebox to prove a point? You need to cool off with getting so pent up over a petty argument or you'll have an early grave my friend.

[ogron]

lol this guy Commodo is still talking shit to me in-game, unreal. here's your entire basing career in 30 seconds:

TWDT-B


2018 -- eliminated by me in Week 5 must win play-in
2017 -- lost in Semi-Finals
2017 -- eliminated by me in Week 5 must win play-in
2016 -- missed playoffs
2016 -- eliminated by me in Semi-Finals
2015 -- lost in Quarter-Finals
2014 -- missed playoffs
2013 -- eliminated by me in Quarter-Finals


TWLB


S21 -- i beat you in the Semi-Final and you won the Final
S20 -- i beat you in the Semi-Final and i beat you in the Final
S19 -- you were benched
S5-S18 -- you did nothing


Congrats man, you went 1-7 against me in playoff series and must win play-in games, and you cheated to get that 1 win.


You're real clutch.

[ogron]

Ogron negged in all but one of his TWDTD performances (this last point isn't exactly crucial.)

Do you not... understand how math works?

I went 7-6, 8-9, 6-10, 7-6, 8-10, and 14-4, for a total of 50-45, in a ship I no longer practice, after finishing 2nd in kills the last two seasons in WB with 100+ kill seasons.

Don't make me pull out a calculator and embarrass you about how many times I've eliminated you in basing leagues, because the number is real ugly.

I highly recommend you shut up and move on.