Ratings adjustment discussion

[zidane]

As of right now, the plan is to have one rating for base like usual. Different ratings for diff ships sounds fun but how does it work in practice? Is a cap going to want to draft a player early on in the draft such as porkjet to shark, or ogron to terr, only to find out they only want to play another ship they're not as good at? Is that good from a competitive standpoint for the league? Spots that are usually given to newer players will start to be filled by veterans in their secondary ships.

We also have no idea if its even possible for the bots, and how long it would take if it was. If I receive some info saying it's definitely possible to implement and someone is willing to do it, we'll discuss it more in depth.

[qan]

We also have no idea if its even possible for the bots, and how long it would take if it was. If I receive some info saying it's definitely possible to implement and someone is willing to do it, we'll discuss it more in depth.

Just having it announce total star count and announce over-star lines rather than block subs/switches would allow it to be done easily from a technical standpoint, but would require manual oversight.

[Majorcrisis2]

As of right now, the plan is to have one rating for base like usual. Different ratings for diff ships sounds fun but how does it work in practice? Is a cap going to want to draft a player early on in the draft such as porkjet to shark, or ogron to terr, only to find out they only want to play another ship they're not as good at? Is that good from a competitive standpoint for the league? Spots that are usually given to newer players will start to be filled by veterans in their secondary ships.

We also have no idea if its even possible for the bots, and how long it would take if it was. If I receive some info saying it's definitely possible to implement and someone is willing to do it, we'll discuss it more in depth.

I think a basing cup could make this happen for example. Players could signup for the ship they want. That way caps know what they will play. For example ogron can 'block' the terr there, maybe by giving him a 20 rating to make it unplayable for the captain. Could even do it in twdt imo this way

[Jurassic]

As of right now, the plan is to have one rating for base like usual. Different ratings for diff ships sounds fun but how does it work in practice? Is a cap going to want to draft a player early on in the draft such as porkjet to shark, or ogron to terr, only to find out they only want to play another ship they're not as good at? Is that good from a competitive standpoint for the league? Spots that are usually given to newer players will start to be filled by veterans in their secondary ships.

We also have no idea if its even possible for the bots, and how long it would take if it was. If I receive some info saying it's definitely possible to implement and someone is willing to do it, we'll discuss it more in depth.

While it would be fun to play other ships, I agree with Zid. Would just be dumb to shark ogron instead of terr unless the team was absolutely stacked with high stars otherwise, which barely any were last year. Star caps weren't even a problem for a lot of teams last year as it was. You had teams playing 60-61 stars in the regular season, some sub 60. Haze/WoD had some 65 star lines in finals even. We only really hit 67 when playing cape as 10 star spid.

Ratings would be wonky as hell too if someone tried to figure them out. I'm assuming just a ton of 7's.

[ogron]

Interesting insights Qan, thanks.

Zid is doing the work and it’s his prerogative, the person running the league should be able to put their personal spin on it (using turbs awesome new map and making FA picks based on standings, for instance), so ultimately it would be up to him to decide on multi ship ratings if Qan or Wingzero can make it work, or if he’s dead set on one rating then I guess not.

Id play whatever ship my cap needed, but a lot of us are just completely locked out of multiple basing ships. I think a lot of basers are burned out playing the same ship 15 straight seasons (I know I am). Hulk and Mcv have moved to shark, rab and porkjet terr, me/cape anything but terr, etc.

Feel like it could really boost interest and breathe new life into base, if I’m in shark or spider it opens up a chance for someone in terr, etc.

Either way, I appreciate all the work you guys are doing.
qan WingZero zidane Wirah

[Rab]

Devil's advocate for a moment, coz I've thought of something interesting...

There are two types of player to consider:
a) those who are rated roughly the same in all their ships, e.g. nippler
b) those who are rated much higher in some ships than others, e.g. henry

When you draft nippler you're doing it around round 6ish. You're probably going to shark him. But if it turns out you'd rather spider or terr him, that's fine, you can do that to make your lineup work.
> So for these players the current system is fine.

If you draft henry, you're going to have drafted him in round 4ish. It's because you want to spider him. If you want to pick him to shark when are you going to do it, because if you pick him in round 4ish you're picking a low star shark too early, if you want to pick him to shark in a later round, say 8ish, he's probably already gone to someone else who wants to spider him.
> So for these players, their ship is determined by the round they're picked in. Caps thinking they can be lulzy and play people in their off-ships will have had to pick those people in the wrong round and will therefore lose the tournament. Having a team with a bad draft outcome is bad for the tournament.

So really the current star rating being the player's highest rating is what affects the draft. If multi-rated, the player would still always be drafted based on their highest rating. Any cap drafting otherwise would be wrong to do so.

----------

So, putting that into practice. You're doing a draft and all the good sharks have gone, but there are still some teams with 0-1 sharks. So those caps realise this and need to draft some lower rated shark.

If you're Ogron and you wanting to get drafted to shark. It isn't going to be you, because you would have already been picked to terr.

If you're Rab and you're willing to shark, there's a good chance you're not drafted yet, so it might work out. You're 8* in spid, maybe 7* in shark.
> So yeah that's it. The entire benefit of this feature is someone who is short of sharks, or maybe a terr, can save 1* when they field their emergency shark/terr pick. That's not nothing, but it's nowhere near as flexible as it first sounds.

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Edit: Oh and it's worse than that, because imagine you pick zidane, hella early, and you're doing it for jav and shark. If zidane became a jav/spider instead, it would be a nightmare, because you'd want to pick him early for jav, then you'd be pissed if you couldn't shark him. So for multi-division players, who are all picked first because that's how caps win, there's no chance of them playing their off-ship in base.

[MHz]

I'd be really down for separate ratings. I think we currently have a glass ceiling for new and middling players wanting to play in terrier or shark. I think giving experienced and specialised basers value in other ships could really make the league more exciting.

Agree with Jurassic when he talked about the overall star cap, though. If we were to have separate ratings, you'd have to make this leaner... perhaps 65... to avoid a team of veterans simply playing their second ships. Err on the high side for vets' second ship, too.

Rab Good analysis -- that's all true. WingZero was the man who took on the job of reworking how TWDT is handled by the bot/in the db. Changing to have three different ratings is fairly trivial (assuming specials use Spid rating), but the issues with subs and switches aren't.

As much as the star count was a nice feature in the last TWDT... if it were a major wrinkle for implementing multiple ship ratings, couldn't we just revert to the old system? Prerogative falls with caps to do the maths imo.

[afghan]

I think Jurassic brings up a good point about the cap. I think if people really want to try different ships they could And not be a huge detriment due to their high star value. I’m sure a lot of the 10 star basers could play close to 9 star value in other ships with less practice compared to someone that is newer and has less experience basing. It really comes down to the caps being willing to tinker with the lineup based on their draft strategy.

[Nipple Nibbler]

1:Rough> no but srs should not be a 7

+1 in wb for rough

[Beast]

Why is beam trying to make me 5? I did do well finals round one, so you can't label me as ENTIRELY trash you dick lol.

[Rab]

caps are gonna have to start planning their draft now
so it's time to draw a line under this
and apply any accepted adjustments to the signup sheet
and rate anyone who's currently unrated

[Singer]

Why is beam trying to make me 5? I did do well finals round one, so you can't label me as ENTIRELY trash you dick lol.

Would vouch for Beast to be 5* in all leagues, it's like he has the power to drop everybody else's star power by 2 once entered in the lineup, never seen such prowess

[Beast]

Would vouch for Beast to be 5* in all leagues, it's like he has the power to drop everybody else's star power by 2 once entered in the lineup, never seen such prowess

your utter disrespect, and negativity towards me, is very confusing. When other people do shitty, you just ignore them and pretend it was all my fault, lol. even though I went 6-3 in the first round, and got us to a 3 round finals using 1366 x 768 resolution for wb... yeah I sucked two rounds, but it's not like you can only single me out, you dickwad.

Another note while on you, if you were actually serious about being a captain of a league, you could have spent your time explaining to me "ohh hey beast our top line isn't going to make it, we might need you to wb in finals,can you practice more, and maybe start for us?" nope, you wait 10 minutes before you decide to put me in, and I had to use what i had, when I really had no intentions of wbing; just be thankful you were able to make finals, while trashing me all season long.

[Shadowmere]

High everyone, on behalf of Steadwoman here, apparently I should be 9*. He said "we underrated you because of your activity", so please lets correct this nonsense.

[Shadowmere]

Oh, in jav btw. Apologies for being so confusing.