URGENT: Looking to hire the next League Op(s)

[Mythril]

It's been fun spending some free time looking at and tinkering with TWDT this season. When I signed up to help, it was always a call to action type of thing. After not logging on for months (and flaking on the league op team months prior - I had committed to running something and then reneged days later), I saw the donations thread and felt like I had to contribute in some way to battle the game's final nail in the coffin. So I started posting on the forums more. And I started debating some guy named Falconeer. Then, I finally logged on the game and had a message from Trasher that was along the lines of "you done posting on the forums while not even contributing 10 minutes of in-game time?"

As corny as it sounds, that message woke me up and made me realize there was a lot more that I could be doing if I really cared about the game's survival. That night, after months of inactivity, I messaged qan, wirah and henry that I would be willing, for real this time, to step up to see what could be done. I regretted it almost immediately after, but I'm glad I did it. The turnout has been truly remarkable, and I don't really think it was ever about me. The community was always here - we've just needed more communication from the top level to get things organized and rolling. I've barely done any work since the league began.

I was never going to be able to run more than just this season. I always expected several others to step up and run this thing as a well-oiled machine. That never happened. It's been just me and the current team, and I don't have the time or energy to run these big leagues again. I'll be available to help give input and maybe work on some fun side leagues and content, but it's time to ask a few people in the community to step up and offer some of their free time to keep this momentum rolling.

So, here we are. The future of the game is in the hands of someone who isn't yet on the league op team. We're looking for anyone who's passionate about keeping this game running at a high level and has a strong feel for the heartbeat of the culture. There's a ton of interest in a possible return of TWL, other TWDT flavored leagues, or maybe a safer standard TWDT with more teams. Whichever we decide on (my vote is a reformatted TWL), whoever's in charge will need to be recruited soon. There's a lot they'll have to consider.

We're only 2 weeks away from the TWDT regular season ending. And just a month before this season is over. Ideally, we want the next league announced soon, with an energized league op leading the charge, and we need it planned sooner than later so players know what to look forward to shortly after TWDT.

Now is a great time to get involved. You'll have the full support of the current league team (myself, vys, henry, qan, wirah), and the full arsenal of the most stacked dev team we've had in a decade. If you're interested in helping out, please post here or message someone on the league op team. We need someone, or preferably several people, very soon.

[Majorcrisis2]

Thanks for the hard work Mythril! I know it can be a struggle, especially now most of us have a 'life' outside TW. In our younger days we all had much more time and made it 'easier' to contribute. It's sad to see you 'go', but totally understandable. I can't and won't step up. My time is kinda limited, even have trouble finding time to make the stats. Most of them I have done inbetween the TWDT games. The 'wont' part is Henry Saari. Maybe it's me and Ogron, but we cant work with such a guy. It always has to go by his rules and every TWDT season he has a 'strong say' in the limited 8s in basing. Just because the guy is scared he wont get enough play time. The only thing the guy does is setting up bots (most overrated thing on the league part anyway) and deleting posts on forum when its critisizes him. The guy isnt suitable to be in this team and stopping people from actually helping in my eyes.

[Attacks]

I have to warn anyone who thinks about this role, I did TWD for about a month and instantely regretted it. You will spend hours doing it, get no thanks and get the attitude from players the games dying so whats the point.

I soon realised that the only attitude to survive in such a role for a sustained amount of time to produce consistancy is someone who is of a Ogron attitude who doesn't give a damn what people think, and is so passionate it steps on peoples toes, and yes this does cause feathers to be ruffled.

We have seen the law abiding, none passionate approach now which was to replace Ogron thanks to the few cries of unfairness from a minority of people who felt they were lett behind. The result was Henry Saari.

in short the only attitude that can cope with this is someone like Ogron, or someone as strong minded..dare I say bull headed enough to cope with it.
To remove the attitude, and to make someone follow the rulebook exactly is to remove the character needed to perform this role in its current climate.

So my message to Qan is, if you recruit a yes sir no sir who has 0% respect from the playerbase and no charisma or people skills, then just put a nail in the coffin already and pull the plug on leagues. And let twd run its course until the game meets its end naturally.

[Jessup]

I'll submit an application to help run this. Perhaps a few should and it could be a consensus run season. Main thing is rules and regulations need to be made/decided upon. We know the basic form a TWL must have. Use the old rulebook for most of it. It is just a matter of writing up the changes we need to add in and make those shown to the player base. I feel 8-12 people per squad. Set number of games to qualify (between 8 to 12) (this may not be needed,, could just allow squads to sign up) , decide if flex times could work during regular season (could then add MORE games ),,,

I personally feel regular season could be flex times for games agreed between caps... could take a lot of burden off hosts until playoffs happen. We could also then DOUBLE the amount of games this way too and keep activity happening during the week. A game schedule would have to be posted for each week .. then the squads would have the whole week to fulfill their quota of games . If they miss it the squad who fielded the fewest people at said time forfeit. If both teams field even number in players but game can not commence count that as a tie. Unlimited attempts possible at making posted games until deadline on each Sunday.. say 7PM EST . I'd love to see like 4-6 games in each division happen per week in regular season.

O

r just do Sundays with a very stream lined schedule. but,, I feel that we could suffer from lack of activity during the week as a result. Even with my flex idea I def think playoffs should be on Sundays 3-5PM once they arrive. Remember with flex times TWD site is fully automated and we need none of this post your score stuff on forums which often causes headaches.

These are some basic ideas of how I've been thinking of what could be done.. and I could implement it if need be. We also need a set date SOON of when squads need to start signing up to commit. I personally love the flex schedule idea. It would afford games also to be played Saturday and Sunday so.. the excuse saying we can't because euro and American times don't match up would be a non issue. I'm sure squads could do a few in week and more on weekends to make their quota. It would be so cool to look forward to serious games during the week imo. plus weekends would be active as squads finish up their matches for the week. Also need to decide if this is 4 vs 4 or 5 vs 5 in dd and jd. Basing squads can be double squadder ones... shoot for 6-8 basing squads to play 8 vs 8

Edit.. NO BORROWS ALLOWED TOO.. KEEP THIS PURE

[Voth]

hmm

jessup managed to kill the momentum of just this thread by posting that in it.

think about what would happen to league momentum if he were appointed Op.

no offense jessup, but just given your history, reputation, and your instability, you're probably near the bottom of players that i'd consider having the right temperament for a league op. not trying to be a dick, but no one wants to signup or come back from inactivity to play in a league you're running. to be fair, not that i am even able to do so, but i don't think anyone would want to signup or come out of inactivity to play in a league i'm running - it's just the way it is. some players have the connections with a network of veteran players that trust them and the history that makes players confident in dedicating time to a league. you don't. just being honest.

i'm hoping that someone can step up to be a reliable force in the next league. myth has done a great job this time around, and will be hard to replace.

[Jessup]

I'm very reliable and stable. You don't know me at all if that accusation towards me is what you think. What did I do that's so unstable in your mind? And what in the above post do you disagree with or find wrong? To brush me off over a bunch of nonspecific stuff isn't fair. I'd do what is needed of me without a doubt minus any emergency scenarios that would apply to anyone here who was a twl op.

This should NOT be a popularity contest. It is about someone getting the job done , listing rules and games and times and dates. Then going over any appeals per regulations and deciding what is what.. Personality has nothing to do with it in the long run. Being timely and consistent and fair does however.

If players are going to be so trivial over things as you mention and decide not to participate due to personality alone of someone in charge that is really sad. Besides that I have a good personality and consider myself very fair and balanced.

I also said we should do a consensus in my post to continue this threads ideas. I fail to see how I killed any momentum in this thread. You did not even touch on what I wrote.. nor offer any ideas for how things could be run or give any input besides focusing on some distastetful E-personality you think I have. I've run Paladen with Jebass and countless others and we are Trench Wars longest active squad. As a cap I have always worked issues out within our ranks and been very inclusive while doing so. I've trained many staffers on regulations and already know the TWL rulebook pretty well. Your opinion of me is not warranted nor valid in this circumstance Voth and is quite unfair imo. Please focus at least on what I wrote and avoid my "personality" You really don't know me at all. I certainly would not pounce in and try and tear you down if you offered some constructive input here and offered to help when it was asked.....

[Grasps]

Basically what Voth said. I don't think Jessup and I say this not because I dislike her; would be remotely successful running anything unless it's herself in ?go twdd for the fact that she'll never get the support from the community she needs to be successful. Does that mean all hope is lost at finding an league op that isn't a triple crown worthy elite to do the job? I mean Henry Saari is here and got his job without spending anytime in our zone prior, surviving the last few years being successful in some facets, not all but some and arguably the most important. I know as much as it is going to pain vets to see leagues be ran by someone they might not feel is qualified because they didn't win TWL when it was in the single digits, it's going to have to happen for this game to continue.

Is it possible if someone like myself stepped up would get support? Possibly. I feel somewhat confident that the community could rally behind me, what I am not confident about is Henry and getting him to make things happen in a timely manner. If Henry could step aside from leagues entirely, have Vys/Mythril/Ogron mediate and push out changes for things I need done, I'd be much more inclined. I am sure I am not alone. I honestly wonder if it's the stonewalling/"root canals" that Mythril experienced that wore him out of doing only 1 league when just a couple months back he was talking about taking over this so we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Working with Henry when it comes to leagues is up-hill when it shouldn't be. I mean TWD Cup (or Season.. wtf ever it was called) anyone? Allowing numerous teams to forfeit just because he didn't get 2 months notice in advance (Got 2 weeks though!) to allow borrows or very least extend the squad join cutoff date so teams who did show up on Sunday could play. All we got was silence, forfeits and the icing on the cake...Paladen vs. Sulake for the finals without apology while he and Jess both poked fun at the whole thing. Or when he decided for his Basing Cup to rate him and all his friends 10's, bringing to question the leagues integrity early on though I will note it was mildly successful. It's instances like that that make me skeptical however. I don't want to take on something, commit my well deserved free time or does anyone else and have dynamic (fluctuating) changes that need to be made immediately to keep people around/playing/engaged, undermined and either acted on in tardy or not acted on altogether. Simply put it's better to not run a league than to run something that holds potential to have it squandered by a single person wasting the time of many.

A good example is right now. How hard is it to just announce TWL? We would still have time to iron out rules but for fucks sake, people would have something to look forward to when TWDT ends in mere weeks. It's dejavu. Last TWDT same thing asking for TWD to be rebooted only getting ambiguous promises about some "great" leagues/events to keep people around instead yet nothing was announced until a full month or more after that season ended when the zone long had died. What Henry did finally come up with was a half baked TWDT which only added salt to the wound, ignoring the demands for TWD's revival altogether.

If this game is going to survive, we need to get

1. motivated person(s) to run leagues. I'd like to see leagues ran by a collective rather than an individual as I believe the quality will be higher and needed changes/fixes implemented faster.
2. Seperate Henry S from leagues. Person(s) running leagues should not have to go Henry for approvals, this is what is killing us.
3. Person(s) who run leagues need to accomplish task in a timely/uniform and PROFESSIONAL manner with a sense of urgency at all time.
4. Support from the community to keep these volunteers who are busting ass for them to keep doing just that.
5. Communication.. Lots of communication is needed. All too often people are left in the dark or things just don't bothered to be communicated. That needs to be done away with.

Might come off as a Henry diss post, it's not. I just don't think he's the right fit for running TWD leagues. I am not asking for him to be removed and think he does a great job with non-league issues, am thankful he's here. Also, thanks for your help this year Myth. We all owe you big time and even though I won't get played this TWDT, it still means a lot to me to be a part of it on the bench. Cheers.

-Ixa

[Jessup]

Ixa , Ive stood up for you always in positions of power you seek like TWDT cap time and time again and will not stand in the way of you applying for this position either. Why are you always throwing me under the bus though?? It's sort of bs dude. I'm as capable as you and anyone here. I also did NOT run that TWD cup with henry so don't connect me to that at all. That was Henry's doing and he had the final say. I was in fact FOR allowing a free agent draft a little into the season to make it more active. Henry wasn't ...and as a result the league was not ideal and forfeit after forfeit took place. The only teams who adhered to rules were paladen and sulake and in turn under henry's leadership that was the finals that took place. We did win the games to get there too but.. the league had issues. I won't deny that. I was in NO WAY in charge in that cup though. Do not give factually incorrect info about me in that regards please. I had nothing to do with it being run. I participated in the league only and followed the rules set in place.

[Falconeer]

What is entailed in running a league exactly? No one really went over that.

Mythril said he didn't do work initially, but then decided to get involved for real and did work? but then never had to work since the league started? But no specifics on what he actually did. I keep hearing it's all behind the scenes and no one really knows how much work you did. But what is the work? Can we get a list... so maybe it stops being behind the scenes?

What actual work is going to be happening? Just talking to people and getting them motivated? I'm doing that all day for the new subspace discord, been doing that for subspace for 20 years, in all the newbie squads i made to give new players a chance in DSB. Must have recruited 200+ people back in 2008. I have 200+ people added on steam from subspace and sparked some interest in some of them to re-install the game. Anyway, my point isn't that I'm the best for this - as I actually probably don't have the time for another project...

I'm already signed up for a league in two zones (TW hopefully and HZ). I might be running my own squad soon (again). I have a ton of bot coding to learn/do. A bunch of old projects to finish for DSB. And the new discord to get people on board with...

My point was more that I would like input on what the job actually entails: beside listening to complaints or motivating people to sign up. Motivating people to sign up is mostly the job of squad captains, maybe league coordinator motivates people to captain? and makes schedules?

I agree with Grasps on all his points. I especially agree with the collective idea. But it really depends who is in the collective and if there is still transparency and the involvement of the *whole* community in the decisions process. IE. Even my opinion would be considered seriously and Jessters. So in other words people have to be unbias and able to objectively consider not just their own best interests. If the collective consists of the 4 major captains in league then there is already a conflict of interest. So maybe a collective still needs some slight oversight. They would have the ability to implement anything reasonable (as long as it's not excluding people), but someone like qan/henry could still give oversight and overrule a horrible mob mentality decision.

[Falconeer]

Has Jesster ever run a league? If not then imo everyone deserves one chance. Why did Henry get that chance and Jesster wont? Makes very little sense to me, since Henry has the same if not worse reputation as an obstructionist to development (up hill battle with him on everything) in DSB.

Best way to solve the issue is to separate league staff from zone staff. In other words they have no ban powers, or they are forbidden from banning or even silencing people. This is about running leagues, not policing the zone or having additional moderator powers. When league staff needs someone banned they can call on a moderator or Sysop. If they need to spec a player they can do that themselves.

I made an F1 list in DSB that took beer hunter 3 months to upload. Then I found a spelling error and corrected it, and it was still never uploaded 4 years later. I'm still waiting for Henry or Eridu to care enough to do it. If you want to see this go to DSB and press F1 and look how 'communnity' is spelt wrong.

I had to press to have DSB website access for 8 months before I finally got it. The whole time Henry stonewalled and killed my motivation. He maybe? means well, but this lack of faith/trust, and the general slow attitude.. combined with him being the only one in charge basically leads to destroying development teams where the people involved don't have a final say even though they are the one's doing all the work, or they don't have access to do the work and have to operate on his time table when his motivation is lacking... these are the causes for subspaces decline across all zones, people in positions of power who lost interest but refuse to step down. Who refuse to learn, to be self sufficient, and sort of just pray for help to arrive. That's why the joke exists that DSB is a hospice and Henry and Eridu are nuns praying for someone they can trust to save it. Except they literally trust no one. Not jowie, not qan, no one. So many devs have quit that zone.. and I can provide log after log of people saying BH/henry needs to go.

Anyway not saying this as an attack.. it's just years and years of observation since 2013, the only changes in DSB happened because of me, after fighting BH for 1 year. Not only did I have to deal with Hoch the most abusive sysop in the game at the time. But i had to endure years of BH not really caring about the zone he is sysop of, when my care level is over 9000, while being told I'm not good enough. This approach to zone dev is what leads to a jaded community that pours their energy into the game in negative ways because they feel it's helpless since nothing will ever change. Henry promotes that in the community.

I hate writing this. But it is how I feel. And I've told him many times but he doesn't wake up and realize that at least some of the problems in the game are directly because of him. Since he can never realize or accept this, he can never change, and never really has.

[Jessup]

Has Jesster ever run a league? If not then imo everyone deserves one chance. Why did Henry get that chance and Jesster wont? Makes very little sense to me, since Henry has the same if not worse reputation as an obstructionist to development (up hill battle with him on everything) in DSB.

I made an F1 list in DSB that took beer hunter 3 months to upload. Then I found a spelling error and corrected it, and it was still never uploaded 4 years later. I'm still waiting for Henry or Eridu to care enough to do it. If you want to see this go to DSB and press F1 and look how 'communnity' is spelt wrong.

I had to press to have DSB website access for 8 months before I finally got it. The whole time Henry stonewalled and killed my motivation. He maybe? means well, but this lack of faith/trust, and the general slow attitude.. combined with him being the only one in charge basically leads to destroying development teams where the people involved don't have a final say even though they are the one's doing all the work, or they don't have access to do the work and have to operate on his time table when his motivation is lacking... these are the causes for subspaces decline across all zones, people in positions of power who lost interest but refuse to step down. Who refuse to learn, to be self sufficient, and sort of just pray for help to arrive. That's why the joke exists that DSB is a hospice and Henry and Eridu are nuns praying for someone they can trust to save it. Except they literally trust no one. Not jowie, not qan, no one. So many devs have quit that zone.. and I can provide log after log of people saying BH/henry needs to go.

Anyway not saying this as an attack.. it's just years and years of observation since 2013, the only changes in DSB happened because of me, after fighting BH for 1 year. Not only did I have to deal with Hoch the most abusive sysop in the game at the time. But i had to endure years of BH not really caring about the zone he is sysop of, when my care level is over 9000, while being told I'm not good enough. This approach to zone dev is what leads to a jaded community that pours their energy into the game in negative ways because they feel it's helpless since nothing will ever change. Henry promotes that in the community.

I hate writing this. But it is how I feel. And I've told him many times but he doesn't wake up and realize that at least some of the problems in the game are directly because of him. Since he can never realize or accept this, he can never change, and never really has.

Best way to solve the issue is to separate league staff from zone staff. In other words they have no ban powers, or they are forbidden from banning or even silencing people. This is about running leagues, not policing the zone or having additional moderator powers. When league staff needs someone banned they can call on a moderator or Sysop. If they need to spec a player they can do that themselves.

Falc I am not Jesster just to let you know.. I am Jessup ^_^ I have been on numerous league councils and zone councils and participated in TWL's since 2006. I have been captain during many of those too and NEVER forfeited a match or did not complete a season. I have ALWAYS fulfilled my commitments.

[Falconeer]

Falc I am not Jesster just to let you know.. I am Jessup ^_^ I have been on numerous league councils and zone councils and participated in TWL's since 2006. I have been captain during many of those too and NEVER forfeited a match or did not complete a season. I have ALWAYS fulfilled my commitments.

My bad, still asleep :P

[Turban]

I would be potentially interested to help with running of the leagues, but not from a head position as it requires far too much commitment.

[Majorcrisis2]

Falc I am not Jesster just to let you know.. I am Jessup ^_^ I have been on numerous league councils and zone councils and participated in TWL's since 2006. I have been captain during many of those too and NEVER forfeited a match or did not complete a season. I have ALWAYS fulfilled my commitments.

You realize this doesnt matter? Its more the problem that people have no faith in you. Neither will people signup for you, unlike it happened with mythril. Yes, you have done good stuff, but you should just accept that people dont want you in charge.

[Falconeer]

You realize this doesnt matter? Its more the problem that people have no faith in you. Neither will people signup for you, unlike it happened with mythril. Yes, you have done good stuff, but you should just accept that people dont want you in charge.

Why is there a lack of faith for Jessup? If it's about potential to abuse powers, just separate moderation from league Ops. Any league Op who uses moderator powers is removed immediately, no exceptions.

Also can someone detail the job requirements for League Ops? I'm not signing up, I'm just curious what all the work is that you guys said was being done behind the scenes? Also if you're looking for people for a job, and said you want more transparency... then job requirements, and duties should be listed?

Maybe this will explain why Henry spends zero time on reviving DSB zone. Maybe he's so busy in TW.