Thunder vs Terrorist TWDTB Semi-Finals Round 2 Appeal

[Falconeer]

Hmmm. It's not exactly true there's no bug. I've put in the fix and it should be working as intended from now on.

This one surprised me. So, there actually is a feature added and enabled in TWBD/TWDTB/TSLB that allows players who have been subbed out to be subbed back in again. But it's never once worked in any of those leagues due to a bug that's existed from the moment it was put in.

So basically, it's always been this way; you've never been able to sub in someone who's been subbed out in a basing game, even though the intent to allow it has been there for more than a year and a half.

Notice that you'll receive a different error when you try to sub in a subbed out player depending on gametype:

In d/j: (Player) was already subbed out before, and can't be subbed in again.
In b: (Player) is already in the game

This is definitely unintentional behavior -- a bug. But considering it's never once actually worked the way it's supposed to, and for the duration of the history of MatchBot, you've never been able to sub in a subbed-out player in any league, it doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation (to me) that you should be able to do so ... unless you were aware of this feature being added. But that would mean that for some reason you didn't report it as a bug for the entire time it's existed, which doesn't make much sense, especially if you're using knowledge of both the feature and the bug to claim you've been the target of unusual and unexpected misfortune.

Qan that was confusing as fuck for me... like trying to contemplate infinity :/

You're saying it's a bug... but the bot literally has a message designed for the bug saying you cant sub in a player who was subbed out?

Seems more like the feature to sub in and out the same player was disabled than it being a bug? if the code is there... but not active?

[qan]

Hmmm. It's not exactly true there's no bug. I've put in the fix and it should be working as intended from now on.

This one surprised me. So, there actually is a feature added and enabled in TWBD/TWDTB/TSLB that allows players who have been subbed out to be subbed back in again. But it's never once worked in any of those leagues due to a bug that's existed from the moment it was put in.

So basically, it's always been this way; you've never been able to sub in someone who's been subbed out in a basing game, even though the intent to allow it has been there for more than a year and a half.

Notice that you'll receive a different error when you try to sub in a subbed out player depending on gametype:

In d/j: (Player) was already subbed out before, and can't be subbed in again.
In b: (Player) is already in the game

This is definitely unintentional behavior -- a bug. But considering it's never once actually worked the way it's supposed to, and for the duration of the history of MatchBot, you've never been able to sub in a subbed-out player in any league, it doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation (to me) that you should be able to do so ... unless you were aware of this feature being added. But that would mean that for some reason you didn't report it as a bug for the entire time it's existed, which doesn't make much sense, especially if you're using knowledge of both the feature and the bug to claim you've been the target of unusual and unexpected misfortune.

[Efhat]

Expect the decision to be delayed a bit. It will be decided within the 72 hour period, but the dev team is looking into things to provide a better picture of what happened. Not worth deciding anything until we actually know the facts.

What are we looking into though ???
this substituting thing has been in place forever. It is how the bot has always been in basing. There is no glitch or bug. This is normal. I do not understand what you are looking for.

[Efhat]

this is not a bot error or a bug. Cripple is correct that it has been this way for well over a decade. Anyone who has ever capped should know that once a player is subbed out, they are done for that game.

should have switched Jamal to spider temporarily until you could determine if he was coming back so that you weren?t playing down a shark. When he returned you could have simply switched him back into shark and played on.

love ya ease but that was just bad decision making at the time. sorry.

THIS.

Thank you.
This has always been in place since I began playing. I do not understand, and I am truly baffled that no one from Thunder knew about this. I asked numerous people online and they said the same thing. I am glad old timers are logging on and confirming this.

since the beginning of time people have had to work around this. Once you are subbed out of a game, you are subbed out.
Plenty of leagues have been affected by this but it has been a part of the game since the beginning of time.

[Mythril]

Expect the decision to be delayed a bit. It will be decided within the 72 hour period, but the dev team is looking into things to provide a better picture of what happened. Not worth deciding anything until we actually know the facts.

[Falconeer]

Falc. I will explain the situation. The bot used for TWDT was programmed purposely this way as these are the rules used in TWDD TWJD and wbduel and javduel and base forever. There was no bug or malfunction. The bot worked properly. When you sub out a player. That player can not reenter the game as they literally have been "subbed out" of the entire game. A team must use other players to complete the game from then on. All teams are bound by this rule. It has been this way for years. I was well aware of this. I had this happen in twdt as a cap a few times the season I was in charge. I happens in twdd and twjd all the time too.

Is it a good setting? Probably not. Should it be changed? Probably. Should an appeal be granted because a team faced this situation this season? No.. because ALL teams are bound by the same rules related to the programming of the bot evenly and it would show partiality to one team and also be unfair to terrorist who won within the system in place.

Interesting... so why didn't qan post and say so? why is there 2 pages after qans initial post of arguing about it?

Also I would be interested to know why this was a rule/coded in the first place? Seems like subbing must have caused some sort of trolling/greifing in the past or request for rematches so the bot coder and league staff clamped down on it? There's no sane reason this would be in the bot code unintentionally...

If the setting was added intentionally to curb some sort of B.S it basically means the league players 'earned' this setting... and now some complain about it... classic.

[Voth]

ps: choo choo

[Voth]

this is not a bot error or a bug. Cripple is correct that it has been this way for well over a decade. Anyone who has ever capped should know that once a player is subbed out, they are done for that game.

should have switched Jamal to spider temporarily until you could determine if he was coming back so that you weren?t playing down a shark. When he returned you could have simply switched him back into shark and played on.

love ya ease but that was just bad decision making at the time. sorry.

[Jessup]

There's really no point arguing about it. If there is a bug qan will find it and reverse the match, if there isn't a bug qan will say he can't find it and the results stand. If the bug affected everyone equally then league staff might opt to reverse no matches (as a hypothetical example - since reversing all matches would be a new league). But it appears if it was a bug, it only effected thunder this league.

And yeah if other players who weren't 6 star were available, your possibility of a rematch decreases, that's just common sense.

Falc. I will explain the situation. The bot used for TWDT was programmed purposely this way as these are the rules used in TWDD TWJD and wbduel and javduel and base forever. There was no bug or malfunction. The bot worked properly. When you sub out a player. That player can not reenter the game as they literally have been "subbed out" of the entire game. A team must use other players to complete the game from then on. All teams are bound by this rule. It has been this way for years. I was well aware of this. I had this happen in twdt as a cap a few times the season I was in charge. I happens in twdd and twjd all the time too.

Is it a good setting? Probably not. Should it be changed? Probably. Should an appeal be granted because a team faced this situation this season? No.. because ALL teams are bound by the same rules related to the programming of the bot evenly and it would show partiality to one team and also be unfair to terrorist who won within the system in place.

[Falconeer]

There's really no point arguing about it. If there is a bug qan will find it and reverse the match, if there isn't a bug qan will say he can't find it and the results stand. If the bug affected everyone equally then league staff might opt to reverse no matches (as a hypothetical example - since reversing all matches would be a new league). But it appears if it was a bug, it only effected thunder this league.

And yeah if other players who weren't 6 star were available, your possibility of a rematch decreases, that's just common sense. Basically wait for staff to say more input here... arguing with each other is unproductive until then.

[Jessup]

I did not say that at all ease. .

I said for the record I was in the arena too and could have been used as a sub. The argument was being made a 6 star was only option. Other players were there to use.

I did not attach anything personal to any argument I made about why this appeal should not be granted either. Reread what I wrote please because you are the one being irrelevant when it comes to my responses.

[With Ease]

I have made valid points about why the appeal should not be accepted lol .. I guess you want to be selective on what you focus on.

I have a right to respond when my name is used in untrue character assassination within the context of this thread. I did not bring up names until guys like you and ease got off topic interjecting my name in the mix to try and discredit me.

Your posts are irrelevant to the subject. You came in and said you were available to sub so the appeal shouldn't be granted. The appeal is about a bot error that kept JAMAL from playing despite watching 95% of the game, not the star cap.

Also, I highly doubt it's "common knowledge" this bug exists when it was specifically changed in TWLB and TWBD. It's a rare occasion, and to present it as some sort of fact that everyone knows is comical.

[Jessup]

Very nice sportsmanship and teamwork, Jessup. Everyone on here is making valid points and suggestions on how this can/may be solved. You? Worried about yourself and your play time.

And you wonder why you weren't played.

IMO Game 2 should be replayed. If Dreamwin and his team don't want to play that's their problem and choice. Circumstances like this rarely happen, but it did and it changed the outcome of Game 2.

I have made valid points about why the appeal should not be accepted lol .. I guess you want to be selective on what you focus on.

I have a right to respond when my name is used in untrue character assassination within the context of this thread. I did not bring up names until guys like you and ease got off topic interjecting my name in the mix to try and discredit me.

[Falconeer]

rofl . I didn't complain to you one time this season or on the team chat. Show me my complaints I was giving to you or disruptions I did that took place on the team. Please do not create falsehoods and lie about me and my conduct. That is completely untrue what you just said above.. spare me with that nonsense. I challenge any thunder member to give ANY examples were I was complaining on squad chat or in freq chat during games or any time the whole season where I caused disruptions. It just did not happen and you saying this was a reason you didn't play me all season even though I showed for every game in regular season is an outright lie.

What did take place on chat though multiple times was ogron harassing me calling me a brain dead noob who was never going to get one second of playtime.. and multiple other insults... which you never stepped in to stop. You had a chance to use me in spider in this sub situation but refused. Why should I have pity for a cap who allowed ogron to cause me personal duress on team chat without stepping in and basically ruin my entire season and also the entire season for the squad. There were many very poor choices made by Thunder this season regarding lines used and ogron was a large part of this issue as we all know he had your ear big time.

This appeal has as much to do with me as any of you in this game and I made VERY valid points explaining why I do not see any argument to have a replay done and that this appeal should obviously be denied. This was NOT a malfunction or a bot glitch. This is how the bots have ALWAYS been set and programmed for this league. If you want to change this for next season fine..do so

but ??...

DO NOT FEEL ENTITLED TO STEP OUTSIDE OF BOT SETTINGS THAT ALL TEAMS ARE BOUND BY DURING EVERY TWDT SEASON EVER PLAYED AND ACT LIKE YOU ARE ENTITLED TO SPECIAL TREATMENT IN GETTING AN APPEAL.

If everyone who was called a noob stopped playing. You would have ogron flying alone in elim begging people to get in. Other day I looked up Thunder roster and saw Ogron's picture he made? of game of thrones. Immediately commented that it looks like a squad of sociopaths. Everyone in the arena laughed. I'm new to TW but for everyone to find that funny, thunder must be acting the game of thrones part in game.

If people don't like trolls then stop supporting people who put others down constantly and don't make a commitment to stop. Make your own squads, support your own leagues, leave these guys out to dry and get bored. Boredom is how you get rid of people who only live for themselves and their own entertainment, they will move on to the next thing.

Besides if a team was actually really good then they could carry 1 or 2 bad to average players in some games at least and still win the season. Not only that, but they would want to do that, so then they could actually demonstrate how good they are as players. Fear is what stops them, fear of losing, fear of not being good enough constantly is what informs their decisions. Fear of being on the receiving end of the shit they dish out, of being judged negatively. I learned a long time ago to stay away from people who are afraid. Whatever the situation, it will end badly for you. In a relationship? someone who is always afraid or insecure is the worst. In the army? you really want that guy to cover your back? Cowards are the worst.

Game of thrones is one big fear fest. Very few people have true courage in the series that is unwavering... and all that fear? it amounts to tons of crap being done to people.

[7roll]

Very nice sportsmanship and teamwork, Jessup. Everyone on here is making valid points and suggestions on how this can/may be solved. You? Worried about yourself and your play time.

And you wonder why you weren't played.

IMO Game 2 should be replayed. If Dreamwin and his team don't want to play that's their problem and choice. Circumstances like this rarely happen, but it did and it changed the outcome of Game 2.