Thunder vs Terrorist TWDTB Semi-Finals Round 2 Appeal

[Majorcrisis2]

Rules doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter, only thing that matters is the ones who are gaining the benefit. We all know it.

I have never won an appeal in my life. Whenever I've appealed, even though it is legitimately stated in rules I've lost. Everytime anyone has appealed against me, i've lost without doing anything wrong myself. For example this one https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...-raid-vs-cobra

It's hard to argue something with limited time and in your second language while the other side are native speakers with 24 hours of a day dedicated to SS.





Rodney clarified this later. Mythril was aware as a long-term captain and player. No one else was asked.

I never macroed anything, I just made shipchanges like any other player. You got in trouble because I got few TeKs with warbird while you were terring so you got irritated and got it fixed so I couldn't use it anymore.

As I said, it's a blatant lie from you that you didn't know about this. You could name every loophole, botcommand, false spot in basing when someone woke you up at 5am. I dont buy it for one second. Karma is a bitch, dude.


Guess you didnt remember but I was Pandora back then so I was once again on the losing side of situation like this.


"Free win". You are the ones who got a freeroll to advancing finals. Can we also play the first replay game without 1 impactful player and see if we could snatch a win?


Every appeal similar to in history would have been denied.

You also might want to check your "legitimate" history timeline of subbing players out and back in. (In TWL)


Show me one scorebox of a TWL/TWDT match where a player has been subbed out and back in. It has never happened in the history of the game. It has never been working. You know this.

Btw, no one has still not explained why MC wasnt subbed first round in similar situation if u "knew" u could sub him back in.

Lastly, I assume the most ridiculous replay match of all time will be played with the exact same lineups. We are not able to field that at 4:15pm EST as you have announced in schedule thread. Start it at 5pm EST like the basing games usually start and there is 50/50 we will actually not protest it by not showing. At 4:15pm we are 100% not able to field same lineup as last week.

Cuz i was alt tabbed finishing the base stats, while i told them to pm me when start. So like cripple said, i was 'back' before i you guys cleared whole FR

[Voth]

Yeah our game seemed really easy, and Steadman wanted to go, and I wanted to play, so I got subbed in. The game got harder and rodney got salty and decided it was all my fault. So I told him to go fuck himself. I don't know if they tried to sub Stead back in or not, but I wouldn't be surprised given the whole season they've been pretty anti-Rab. If so, Myth would have found out at roughly the same time Ease did. Pretty disappointed with the season personally, I vouched for rodney in the FA draft, only reason he got picked, and he's backstabbed me throughout. You can consider that personal beef and nothing to do with the appeal.

yeah... i don't think that you had anything to do with rodney being picked... LOL

[Rab]

yeah... i don't think that you had anything to do with rodney being picked... LOL

You are 100% wrong.

[Voth]

You are 100% wrong.

:thumbsup::-)

okie dokie

[RoDNeY]

This isn't true. skyforger knew about it, nobody else did, including Mythril, Stead, me, and whoever else was online at the time. Presumably rodney wasn't online and he doesn't realise things still happen when he's not there.

I was reciting the exact instance that it happened during the game, just as Ease would have discovered it. If you guys had conversation AFTER the game, AFTER the appeal while i wasn't there then obviously I wouldn't know about it. My point is that in the game in the moment when it was brought up it was shot down by a captain that knew the capabilities of substitutions. As a captain, Ease should have known the capabilities of substitutions. Don't stray from the point i was making here.

Also absolutely nothing personal, just subspace trolling. How long have you been playing this game and have yet to realize this is how we act towards fellow players?

[MHz]

This graph is devastating to the appeal because - far from being aberrant - "not being able to re-substitute subbed players" has been the more common bot infrastructure over our various leagues' history. It's simply inconceivable that a captain wouldn't know this. It's the default, normative infrastructure of the game. In any case, ignorance is not an excuse.

[Jessup]

TWDT bot was used longer than this graph shows. I remember when we stopped using it was about 4 seasons ago which would put it around summer of 2016. I was staff at the time and remember drama because it was loaded in the arenas but was not working properly and things got delayed by a day, That was when they gave up and moved to matchbot only as a stopgap measure .

The main point being TWDT was never bot designed to allow this type sub from the creation of the league. This was a draft league meant to allow multiple people to play. To say because TWL allows this type sub has no bearing at all on what TWDT has allowed. Just look at the graph. Red across the board and a misleading short TWDTbot line.

[Paky Dude]

#freeterrorist

[Efhat]

Rules doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter, only thing that matters is the ones who are gaining the benefit. We all know it.

I have never won an appeal in my life. Whenever I've appealed, even though it is legitimately stated in rules I've lost. Everytime anyone has appealed against me, i've lost without doing anything wrong myself. For example this one https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...-raid-vs-cobra

It's hard to argue something with limited time and in your second language while the other side are native speakers with 24 hours of a day dedicated to SS.





Rodney clarified this later. Mythril was aware as a long-term captain and player. No one else was asked.

I never macroed anything, I just made shipchanges like any other player. You got in trouble because I got few TeKs with warbird while you were terring so you got irritated and got it fixed so I couldn't use it anymore.

As I said, it's a blatant lie from you that you didn't know about this. You could name every loophole, botcommand, false spot in basing when someone woke you up at 5am. I dont buy it for one second. Karma is a bitch, dude.


Guess you didnt remember but I was Pandora back then so I was once again on the losing side of situation like this.


"Free win". You are the ones who got a freeroll to advancing finals. Can we also play the first replay game without 1 impactful player and see if we could snatch a win?


Every appeal similar to in history would have been denied.

You also might want to check your "legitimate" history timeline of subbing players out and back in. (In TWL)


Show me one scorebox of a TWL/TWDT match where a player has been subbed out and back in. It has never happened in the history of the game. It has never been working. You know this.

Btw, no one has still not explained why MC wasnt subbed first round in similar situation if u "knew" u could sub him back in.

Lastly, I assume the most ridiculous replay match of all time will be played with the exact same lineups. We are not able to field that at 4:15pm EST as you have announced in schedule thread. Start it at 5pm EST like the basing games usually start and there is 50/50 we will actually not protest it by not showing, mostly depending if my team wants to play or not. At 4:15pm we are 100% not able to field same lineup as last week.

Interesting. So I was right. I knew humid had dealt with this.
We did have this issue in TWL. Ahahahahahahah. There goes that validity on it never happened in TWL.

I knew that graph was inaccurate on that part too. What a surprise. And that graph also shows TWDT NEVER allowed players to be subbed in.
I do not know who is on the board for this TWDT but I really think this should be reconsidered and looked at again. There are TOO MANY VALID POINTS that should NOT have this appeal granted.

I am sorry but this IS like I said above, one of the most unfair and outrageous grants in the history of this game.

[Efhat]

This graph is devastating to the appeal because - far from being aberrant - "not being able to re-substitute subbed players" has been the more common bot infrastructure over our various leagues' history. It's simply inconceivable that a captain wouldn't know this. It's the default, normative infrastructure of the game. In any case, ignorance is not an excuse.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Efhat]

Rules doesn't matter, common sense doesn't matter, only thing that matters is the ones who are gaining the benefit. We all know it.

I have never won an appeal in my life. Whenever I've appealed, even though it is legitimately stated in rules I've lost. Everytime anyone has appealed against me, i've lost without doing anything wrong myself. For example this one https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...-raid-vs-cobra

It's hard to argue something with limited time and in your second language while the other side are native speakers with 24 hours of a day dedicated to SS.





Rodney clarified this later. Mythril was aware as a long-term captain and player. No one else was asked.

I never macroed anything, I just made shipchanges like any other player. You got in trouble because I got few TeKs with warbird while you were terring so you got irritated and got it fixed so I couldn't use it anymore.

As I said, it's a blatant lie from you that you didn't know about this. You could name every loophole, botcommand, false spot in basing when someone woke you up at 5am. I dont buy it for one second. Karma is a bitch, dude.


Guess you didnt remember but I was Pandora back then so I was once again on the losing side of situation like this.


"Free win". You are the ones who got a freeroll to advancing finals. Can we also play the first replay game without 1 impactful player and see if we could snatch a win?


Every appeal similar to in history would have been denied.

You also might want to check your "legitimate" history timeline of subbing players out and back in. (In TWL)


Show me one scorebox of a TWL/TWDT match where a player has been subbed out and back in. It has never happened in the history of the game. It has never been working. You know this.

Btw, no one has still not explained why MC wasnt subbed first round in similar situation if u "knew" u could sub him back in.

Lastly, I assume the most ridiculous replay match of all time will be played with the exact same lineups. We are not able to field that at 4:15pm EST as you have announced in schedule thread. Start it at 5pm EST like the basing games usually start and there is 50/50 we will actually not protest it by not showing, mostly depending if my team wants to play or not. At 4:15pm we are 100% not able to field same lineup as last week.

Yeah I do not know if I will be able to show at 415. That is an hour earlier of the start time.

[Turban]

TWDT bot was used longer than this graph shows. I remember when we stopped using it was about 4 seasons ago which would put it around summer of 2016. I was staff at the time and remember drama because it was loaded in the arenas but was not working properly and things got delayed by a day, That was when they gave up and moved to matchbot only as a stopgap measure .

The main point being TWDT was never bot designed to allow this type sub from the creation of the league. This was a draft league meant to allow multiple people to play. To say because TWL allows this type sub has no bearing at all on what TWDT has allowed. Just look at the graph. Red across the board and a misleading short TWDTbot line.

This is false, but details were never really disclosed to the public because .. well, it was not necessary.

TWDT started using different bots way before 2016, I am quite damn sure, and it was due to a number of reasons namely changes to the league structure and removal of bidding system which used the website WingZero had made. We scrapped the old website as it was no longer needed due no one being willing to make changes to the site, and thus we switched to using forums only. I believe this change was made the first season when Ogron took over the legacy of TWDT from Humid with his own vision. I was the one who requested these bots to be made for TWDT use as it was the easiest solution which put least strain on the developers, and the first season used altered versions of BWJSBots but was later changed to use MatchBots as a base. If you want to find out when this happened, look at the earliest season where all TWDT work was done on forum side.

I speak with Humid pretty much daily and could ask him to verify what exactly happened that season, and the details as to why it was not fixed but speaking from experience sometimes you just have no one around to fix anything.

[Turban]

If there is a replay it should be at 5:00 PM time slot. It will delay the TWDTB finals slightly (by 20 up to 35 minutes), but it's still a far better option than forcing it to be played immediately after TWDTJ finals end as players are used to logging on at a certain time for the match.

[Majorcrisis2]

This is false, but details were never really disclosed to the public because .. well, it was not necessary.

TWDT started using different bots way before 2016, I am quite damn sure, and it was due to a number of reasons namely changes to the league structure and removal of bidding system which used the website WingZero had made. We scrapped the old website as it was no longer needed due no one being willing to make changes to the site, and thus we switched to using forums only. I believe this change was made the first season when Ogron took over the legacy of TWDT from Humid with his own vision. I was the one who requested these bots to be made for TWDT use as it was the easiest solution which put least strain on the developers, and the first season used altered versions of BWJSBots but was later changed to use MatchBots as a base. If you want to find out when this happened, look at the earliest season where all TWDT work was done on forum side.

I speak with Humid pretty much daily and could ask him to verify what exactly happened that season, and the details as to why it was not fixed but speaking from experience sometimes you just have no one around to fix anything.

Pretty sure I used matchbots in my season, which was 2010 or 2011, somewhere around that. It might have been a different "!game #" than they use nowadays.

[Voth]

this is pretty funny.

if this was always an allowed and normal aspect of the game (which anyone who has played basing matches before the last 7 years [giving qan's research complete faith] would know it was not), we would have seen some signs of it being used for the betterment of the team and as a strategical play. we haven't. i have never seen a baser subbed out and back in within the same round, ever...that incldues TWL, TWDT, TWBD, BASE, BASINGCUP, BASINGANYTHING. i would be very interested to see a log, a box score, a video, or any other evidence, that this supposed "capability" has ever actually been used. i'm not saying it hasn't, but it certainly has never been the norm.

for example, some spiders are much better in the flagroom than they are in the cram. some spiders are amazing at defending under, while others make it their only motive to destroy terriers (choo choo). if this was a large scale idea that was implemented and actually realized with a caps interaction with the bot, does no one think we would have seen a team use this subbing power to play their absolute best players in the absolute best scenarios if it was as simple as swapping a person in and out at will?