Season 26 Ratings Discussion

[uprise]

My man dropped me down a full * to 6.5 after having played quite literally every previous season as 7 and 7.5, aside from last season where I asked vio to find a different lineup excluding me as I hate the ship. Still was requested to stay online during wb games to be the sub

[Exalt]

[QUOTE=Grasps;n1361170]

Here's my 2C bro. I just want to say I don't think your ratings are hilariously bad either, pretty much spot on to me aside from a few. Like for starters I disagree with Ra and don't think they're 7.5 in my opinion. Like at all. Mans played quite well last season and was really good in finals iirc putting up good numbers. I'd say Ra an 8 all day.

Same with Tiny/Dreamwin just because those guys once they unrust/put effort into warbird can be quite dangerous and far more powerful than other 7's. 8* make way more sense for them, I mean I could argue 8.5 even but truly 8 makes most sense and seems less broken than those guys being 7 or 7.5. I've seen both of them carry teams to victory over the many years and they are very smart players in general which is probably why both have been quite successful in DT captain positions. Their problem is not in skill but in dedication.

Sunny D is very questionable as well. They've been playing really well these last 6-9 months and could probably be a candidate at this point for an 8*.

Everything else looks good to me. Hmm well maybe Dak a 9.5 is too high? 8.5 might be better for him just because he's either a warbird slaying god or a warbird getting slain.. I know, that sounds a bit fucked up. If he could find consistency to put up the crazy numbers he's been known to produce, 9.5 all day.

I feel like 9.5's-10 are players who will no matter what put up huge chunks of numbers. Dak doesn't seem to fit there just yet in my mind. He's a good bird though and am not trying to shit on the mans here. Nice guy too. If you reading Dak, no hard feelings! Goes for anyone else I disputed, you are all great peoples and am just a pubtrash player giving his 2C. Please don't be mad <3

Anyways Tbh I haven't gone over all the stats myself. I just briefly scrolled through them and am going just off what you wrote Exalt. I'm a zero title noobie but I am passionate about warbird and love playing when I can. I've watched a lot of games on the bench too but that probably doesn't count for much here lol

I know I do appreciate you and everyone taking the time to give opinions on rating and REALLY hope staff take these into account so we have less broken ratings this season. Anyways, have a great rest of the weekend fam.

-ix[/QUOTE]

So for a few of your suggestions, I'm pretty sure I actually moved those players up than what they are listed as this season, including Ra, Sunny D. I think both were 7*s in the "finalized" DT list, so I moved them up. Idk if Ra even plays still but Sunny D does, and he's clearly better than a 7*. I bumped him up even with the deflationary goal in mind.

As for the others, like I said, I was purposely deflating ratings where I could. Tiny/Dreamwin might be 8*+ when they dedicate to it, but they haven't done so in a while. Right this very moment, I would not say they are 8* wbs when I compare them to the other 8* i placed in that slot. I don't care about what they used to be, but what they are right this very moment. Skill is not a plateu that stays the same forever. It goes up and down depending on various things (for most people anyway), and I don't see why someone should be punished (rewarded?) for being good years ago but not at the same level right now.

I didn't use just pure numbers for a lot of these guys either, because stats don't tell the whole story. 10* players to me are guys who set the tempo, are the obvious leaders of the group, and they ideally make everyone around them better. Barring that, they can carry a game by themselves even if they don't make teammates any better for it. Winning is what matters and they swing games hard in the win column in ways other players don't. Only a select few players can do that, and I think you have to keep 10* for those guys. I bumped Bike down because he's just not that guy, even though he puts up big numbers. I feel like he's there because he's a squad captain more so than people truly think he's a 10* player. 9.5* I can see, but 9* seems better when I look at who I put at 9.5. Bike is not better than Morph or Lockdown, regardless of the numbers. There's something to be said about pushing and keeping up tempo and things like that, which Morph does. Lockdown got bumped down from 10 because he's rusty more than anything. Bike can and does do that, but he also falls into the background as just another guy half the time as well. To me that's not a 10* but this is my list. Opinions may vary.

In my view, this list would look better if more people had signed up and I could likely show the full spectrum of players of who is at 10*, who is at 9.5, who is at 9, etc. Since there are so few, this is the spread as I see it. Some guys could be bumped up or down about .5* but deflation is the point of this to begin with, so I went with that where possible.

Edit: I'd also like to say that the lowest * players are some of the hardest to get right. I kind of went for the idea that these players could be played at the rating I put them in, but might be benched all season if they get bumped higher. Since I've seen some of these guys literally get benched at their previous rating for multiple seasons, because they are basically unplayable there, I feel as though the drop is justified in many cases. We should want people to be rated accurately and to get playtime, not overrate them to the point where they bench forever afterword.

I think Rage was talking about a few guys like aprix or something who I probably rated too low due to not seeing them play for so long

[Grasps]

[QUOTE=Exalt;n1361166]

Explain which ones you think are hilariously bad. [/QUOTE]

Here's my 2C bro. I just want to say I don't think your ratings are hilariously bad either, pretty much spot on to me aside from a few. Like for starters I disagree with Ra and don't think they're 7.5 in my opinion. Like at all. Mans played quite well last season and was really good in finals iirc putting up good numbers. I'd say Ra an 8 all day.

Same with Tiny/Dreamwin just because those guys once they unrust/put effort into warbird can be quite dangerous and far more powerful than other 7's. 8* make way more sense for them, I mean I could argue 8.5 even but truly 8 makes most sense and seems less broken than those guys being 7 or 7.5. I've seen both of them carry teams to victory over the many years and they are very smart players in general which is probably why both have been quite successful in DT captain positions. Their problem is not in skill but in dedication.

Sunny D is very questionable as well. They've been playing really well these last 6-9 months and could probably be a candidate at this point for an 8*.

Everything else looks good to me. Hmm well maybe Dak a 9.5 is too high? 8.5 might be better for him just because he's either a warbird slaying god or a warbird getting slain.. I know, that sounds a bit fucked up. If he could find consistency to put up the crazy numbers he's been known to produce, 9.5 all day.

I feel like 9.5's-10 are players who will no matter what put up huge chunks of numbers. Dak doesn't seem to fit there just yet in my mind. He's a good bird though and am not trying to shit on the mans here. Nice guy too. If you reading Dak, no hard feelings! Goes for anyone else I disputed, you are all great peoples and am just a pubtrash player giving his 2C. Please don't be mad <3

Anyways Tbh I haven't gone over all the stats myself. I just briefly scrolled through them and am going just off what you wrote Exalt. I'm a zero title noobie but I am passionate about warbird and love playing when I can. I've watched a lot of games on the bench too but that probably doesn't count for much here lol

I know I do appreciate you and everyone taking the time to give opinions on rating and REALLY hope staff take these into account so we have less broken ratings this season. Anyways, have a great rest of the weekend fam.

-ix

[Exalt]

[QUOTE=RageRitual;n1361164]

Small nitpick here, if you haven't seen someone in a ship or at the very least looked up their stats you probably should not give an empty opinion on their rating.

A couple of your rating suggestions are hilariously bad probably having a lot to do with my first point.[/QUOTE]

Explain which ones you think are hilariously bad.

[RageRitual]

[QUOTE=Exalt;n1361149] Some of the lowest * players I haven't ever seen WB or haven't seen play WB in over a decade, so idk where to put them. They just exist.[/QUOTE]

Small nitpick here, if you haven't seen someone in a ship or at the very least looked up their stats you probably should not give an empty opinion on their rating.

A couple of your rating suggestions are hilariously bad probably having a lot to do with my first point.

[uprise]

Please make me 10* in wb so I will never get added and dont have to play this awful ship. Thanks

[viop11]

susp1ct

[Exalt]

Since I'm bored at work, here's what I'd rate WBs right now based on the current and restrictive (see: inaccurate) rating system we use that only allows a 4* difference between the worst player in the game and the best: Keep in mind, I am purposely deflating ratings and also lowered people who are either rusty and not playing their full potential or who are still rated highly due to years past and not who they are right this very moment (if they haven't been the same for a long period of time). I also consider this extremely conservative and probably over-inflating a lot of people still. This is simply a baseline quick-glance where I see obvious changes can be made. I might've missed a few people since I am not doing this in-depth.

[B]10* WB [/B]- Racka, Saiyan, Vys, Best, Iron Survivor, (These players change games by themselves on a regular basis. Without them, even top TWL lines lose to scrubs. Nobody else does that in WB to this degree. Iron Survivor could even be bumped down until he proves he still belongs here, but that lag giving him 20 lives a game is 10* on it's own). I could even justify putting the first 4 on this list as 11*s in WB. Other WBs in this game really aren't close in terms of mechanics, game-sense, and/or ability to elevate teammates in the same way. They'd all be played as 11*s too.

[B]9.5* WB[/B] - Morph, Lockdown (he's more like 9* right now, but you guys rate Rasaq and Dak as 9* and he's above them even when he's so rusty)

[B]9* WB[/B] - Bike (not a consistent hard carry like Morph/Lock can be at times, but I can see 9.5 if you're being conservative), Flew (rusty, but i'd bump him if you bumped Bike), Beam (as an individual carry he's more like an 8*, but as a person teamed up with 10*s, he's a 9+* so it's hard to quantify. I can't justify him higher because he's not a hard carry by himself, and TWDT requires that at top *s. If he's with a bunch of scrubs, he will do no better than any 8* on this list)

[B]8.5* WB[/B] - Tripin, Siaxis, Dak, Geio, Kentaro, absurd, Jz (All of these guys can carry or go 5-10, you never know. This is most of the playerbase, but they're more skilled than most so this is where they are. Lineup playstyle also matters more for them than guys in higher tiers.)

[B]8* WB[/B] - Rasaq (he's not a 9* right now, maybe could be again in future but not at the moment), Ogron (a bit like Beam in that he can team well, but not an individual carry. Beam is better individually so this is where Ogron belongs in WB, im feeling generous), zidane, aGGi (could be lower), renzi, Jurassic (could be lower), Paky Dude

[B]7.5* WB[/B] - Exalt (not gonna change my own rating, others left me at 7.5 for the past decade though so apparently that's where the raters over that period think I belong both before and after inflation), Ardour, Jack (Jack could be higher but he's rusty), Riverside (could be higher or lower, especially due to TWDT stats but TWD shows he can still play), Props, Star Fox, DanSlams, Booker007, Violence, Tiny, hulk, Dreamwin, BOMBED, kado, Banks, GenX, sarger, Dare, Spectacular, Product, Ra, Zeebu, Ekko, rylo, Sunny D, Zapata

(some of these guys are not really wb players but can hold their own in a lineup, it's difficult to quantify, but I'd take the WBs over them at the same rating. This is a lack of real rating separation problem. Regardless, everyone in 7.5* has at least one major flaw in their playstyle though that makes them lower than they could be. Might be inability to team well, inability to kill anything closer than r3, low ability to stay alive, bad aim, bad game-sense, rust, ego, easily tilted, doesn't play wb much, whatever. This all includes me)

[B]7* WB[/B] - Helios, Pawner (both could honestly be higher due to occasional ability to do well, but low-IQ players that don't team with tons of flaws aren't a high commodity), mvp, brethal, Bugy, draft, clefairy, Aselsan, Delos, Warthog, Kassius, Klean-X, L-A-S-E-R, Ixador, Refer, skatarius, Apt, Frozen Throne, Joeses, Groan, TJ Hazuki, Kov, Honcho, Beast, wbm, hypocrit, Cubone

[B]6.5* WB - [/B]Rampage, Mikkiz, Rojo, aprix, uprise, draft, TPZ, Crazy Cannuck, Kim, Dutch Baser, Henry Sorry, Limit, Famous, Lee, rozay, Rabbit!, Mouse, Omega Red, WillBy, Cig Smoke, Jammu, Liz, cyrus, Jackie, Public Assassin, rucci, destruct, Lai, Mercede$, snes, Yogi, Mechanoid

[B]6* WB - [/B]Markmrw, dad, donnager, silvertongue, beanv, cyclone, Dark Knight, snoopie, Vega~


Some of the lowest * players I haven't ever seen WB or haven't seen play WB in over a decade, so idk where to put them. They just exist. I tried to lower them below guys who I have seen play and hold their own at least in TWD games.

[Zeebu]

well, if you take a given number of players, you can decide how many people should be in each 0.5* rating bracket. Take the total number of signups and do that. For each league, list all players and their current rating and take note of what 0.5* bracket they fall into. move people up and down into each tier as necessary to dial it in. Doing this allows the league to normalize the entire player base and dial in the * cap. Also, each bracket should not be the same size. Ideally it would look like a bell curve, but since skill isnt evenly distributed, it wont. The same sort of misrating issues would exist, but hopefully mitigated. I think it's clear that we need a hard look at the ratings, this is just a suggestion on how to go about starting.

I guess the real question is, does anyone think rerating everyone this way is a useful exercise? I personally think it is; it sets out a precedent in the future to combat inflation. If you lock in a certain percentage of the total population for each 0.5* slot bracket, you'll always be able to balance it out. This means your rating has potential to shift season to season based solely on your comparison to similarly skilled players and total number of players. If you were on the border of a bracket, it could push you up or down and that is fine. If your perceived skill level changes, during the offseason rating adjustment period, thats when youd jump over/under other players. The rating itself would be determined by whatever bracket you found yourself in once everyone is ranked top to bottom.

How difficult would it be to set up a google document voting system that allows anyone to submit a top to bottom ranking for each league? i honestly dont know, i havent ever tried something like that. The process of voting sounds time consuming and would probably end up with pretty erroneous results, but i'm curious.

Would any of the league ops be willing to discuss what this rating system would look like? It only affects the ratings and player distribution and maybe the * caps themselves. It wouldn't affect any of the other aspects of the league rules, so it's fairly limited in scope. I don't mind putting together a first pass, but I'd like some input. Specifically what % of players from the whole per each 0.5* rating? We currently have 9 potential ratings 10-6 in 0.5 increments.

Side note: If you really wanted to allow for some hilarious spreadsheet crunching, make the scale go by 0.25* instead of 0.5*. Vio would have a field day!

[zidane]

vio the cheerleading 8* shitter loves typing paragraphs despite 'not caring' about this game. i'd love to see how you do as a 10* if you can pzily dispitch nme spacehsips. you'd be on the bench in a quick second just like you will be all twl season, let the big boys discuss the ratings and you can stick to being tw's clown sideshow.

[viop11]

#1 u r wrong she wasnt on r1p1t1, #2 i dun know her ratink or give a sh1t wut it is, #3 every squidrin has underratid or undir * playirs and zidini thinking shes @ sum sort of disadvantage when every1 is vsink undir the same conditions is s1d, 1mb1r1ss1nk, n d1sg1st1nk. but its not jus zidine, most high * playirs are babies n scared of othir teams n think they are always at a disadvantage when literally every team has holes in them n weaknisses, n when they lose they jus blame the sh1tt1rm1n on their squidrin eefin if they dun do their jib

b4 the seasin and during the seasin no1 was talking about monkee as some gr8 6.5* spidirmin or jiflin, and no1 considered joesis playable in warbirt, n also her own teamm8 pm me 2 binch her aftir her 1st bad mitch. Likewise we play brithil in wirbirt most games as a 7* and she never vs warbirt b4 and did her b1st but I had 10*'s on my team sayink 2 remoof her. no1 wanted to trade for any of them in these ships eithir, and ppl who did consider them in offers wouldnt give up anything except afkirs or scrubmin i dun wish for

joesis n monkee also had pretty horrendis stits in wb/jav and sh1th1d ciptins w/ 0 composure prob would have benched them aftir 1 game they vs 3-10 neways instead of seeink ne potential they cud have 2 help the team

furthirmore no1 is celebratink winnink, i dun give a sh1t about bliwink up space ships as i have said 90000x. i entir trinch wirs so r1p1t1 cud tripil criwn 0 effirt in twdt and twl n cuz even though i dun care about blistink spaceships for the past 15 yrs i still care about trinch wirs survivink as long as pissibil. i cud still izily disp1tch ne1 i wish if i do decide to vs ne effirt on the pitch but i dun care where as sum1 like zidini plays every day for the past 20 yrs n still blames teamm8s when she loses n doesnt play gr8

[ag$]

Groan was underrated forever tho against me saying it for multiple seasons that he was underrated lol
correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he on rapid?

[zidane]

I'm talking about base. DT in general comes down to misrated low star though, rapid had the better ones this season in Bugy/Monkee/Joe. it's similar to the underrated EG situation when a player who is very good in another league gets misrated in a league they never play, then ends up not being a 6* shitter (see bugy/joe).

i love the massive ego from the 8* shitter who's never won anything without playing on training wheels though, look forward to you cheerleading rapid from the bench this twl. get the pom poms out

[viop11]

"It is getting very tiresome that your only shot to win a league is if you happen to draft that underrated EG player, and it doesn't look like there are any of those anymore so we're going to have to get pubbers in these games by the looks of it to fit in the cap."

cud b 1 of the s1ft1st comments i ever see. u cint pridict the futire, the fk gives u the right 2 think u kniw wut your only sh1t to win a league is? how about u play bettir? last time i checked u went 5-10 in dtd finils n u had sum very underated playirs on your rostir such as sunny dykestirmin n jissip n u still got pounded due 2 a sh1t effort from the ppl who are supposed 2 b good. am not in your lockir room n dunno if u vs ursilf, but all u sh1tb1x 10* playirs cud vs the mirror b4 blaming othir playirs and the ratings for why you don't win. its the same conditions 4 every1

wut underatid egir did r1p1t1 have last seasin? zirli

any1 who cares about othir ppls ratings or gets triggered over being .5* inaccurate should applegize 2 g1d for beink more of a sh1tt1rm1n than lee in this thread

[Banks]

From day 1, I have been talking about how these ratings are too inflated. Tried to tell Will/Mark during stream that we need to lower categories of people but they retorted with “math” and percentages.

There needs to be a complete shift downward in ratings with only a select few 10* in each division. Either that or increase the cap, because no way there are going to be enough low star players that care enough to try and perform.

Not only that, but don’t we want quality games with every player in the line at the very least competent and someone who actually plays that ship?