TWDT vs TWL

[Riverside]

1-10side checking in

wud like 2 moof my othir vote to 2 tier TWDT since the othir option on the polls doesnt have a lot of traction, and honestly,

ogron pointing out that others may quit if they dont get twl sparked it. ive heard this rhetoric before from other top players- and i understand it (ogron haf guts 2 voice opinion publically).

so far, the public has voted for TWDT, and understandably so; TWL reduces the population of the trenches on sundays, saturdays, and weekday nights; gradually and then suddenly. it takes momentum to bring TWDT back.

it might be time to move on to a different league entirely that appeases to the top tiered players, and the masses.

regardless, at this point: it's clear by the vote TWL is NOT it; regardless of what a few posts say (numbers and data speak, just ask beam).

ogrin fk me in duel in wb 10-2 a couple nights ago b4 achieving her gliry in terrier after i vs n chall her

Edit: c rackas post 4 clarity

[Exalt]

They will quit if you don't run TWL in 2022.

Edit: Let's be real here though. It's only the end of March. TWL can run in the winter and that's still 2022. TWL in winter is usually the better option anyway. Why would anyone want to run it in spring/summer when half the playerbase won't show up?

[RaCka]

ogrons public threat to quit if they dont get twl sparked it.

I don't remember seeing or hearing Ogron say that unless I completely missed it but I personally think TWL should continue to run once a year even if its a condensed version (something between 3 week - 5 week reg season + playoffs)

[Riverside]

I don't remember seeing or hearing Ogron say that unless I completely missed it but I personally think TWL should continue to run once a year even if its a condensed version (something between 3 week - 5 week reg season + playoffs)

Misread something that was blatant and bolded (skimming through parts of a post and seeing it), jumped the gun bigtime instead of looking twice before posting / editing my own post / giving any type of benefit of doubt and fucked ogron.

Dogshit and pisspoor on my part, to say the least.

Thanks for calling it out.

[Dwopple]

Haven't voted yet.

IF we go the TWL route... I agree w/ a short season. Having a focused group of high-quality competitors without consuming too much time is the goal.

6 teams per division, separate basing & dueling rosters. Each team plays each other twice. Top 4 teams in each division make playoffs (SFs/ Finals).

5-week regular season, no bye weeks
2-week playoffs, no bye weeks

Figure out some strict-ish roster caps similar to 2021 (while no longer tying them to # of divisions played)

I still think the hard (unfair?) part is deciding which teams qualify for TWL, and how.

[ogron]

lol, riverside is like cartman in that episode where he launches a vendetta against gingers then finds out he's a redhead and becomes the leader of the pro-ginger movement. this guy was the biggest gatekeeping "i won twl before you so your titles don't count", elitist, anti-scrub player in the history of the zone.

the second he became bad at the game he became this white knight defender of low-stars, if anyone says the slightest thing to a new player in game now riverside blows up and jumps in writing paragraphs. "im changing my vote to TWDT cuz Ogron said players will quit if TWL isn't run once a year". it's honestly cringe.

as i said, i'm fine with TWDT being run next. i just think you have to run TWL at some point this year. to exalt's 'doubt' meme, they stopped running TWLs in 2017 and those players stopped logging in. it's not an opinion, it's a fact, because it happened 4 years ago.

Accuracy wants to play together in TWL, and try to prove themselves. They took games off Pandora and Strike, and a lot of their players have taken leaps, and they want to push further into the playoffs. So it's not just the Rackas and Eases and Stayons of the world. There are a lot of very good players on the cusp who want to prove themselves.

i ran TWDT for 5 years straight and transformed it into what it is now, obviously i'm fucking pro-TWDT. you can be pro-TWDT and pro-TWL. my point is that TWDT is worse off without TWL long-term. if you're going to reply to what i write, please actually read my post.

[Riverside]

lol, riverside is like cartman in that episode where he launches a vendetta against gingers then finds out he's a redhead and becomes the leader of the pro-ginger movement. this guy was the biggest gatekeeping "i won twl before you so your titles don't count", elitist, anti-scrub player in the history of the zone.

the second he became bad at the game he became this white knight defender of low-stars, if anyone says the slightest thing to a new player in game now riverside blows up and jumps in writing paragraphs. "im changing my vote to TWDT cuz Ogron said players will quit if TWL isn't run once a year". it's honestly cringe.

as i said, i'm fine with TWDT being run next. i just think you have to run TWL at some point this year. to exalt's 'doubt' meme, they stopped running TWLs in 2017 and those players stopped logging in. it's not an opinion, it's a fact, because it happened 4 years ago.

Accuracy wants to play together in TWL, and try to prove themselves. They took games off Pandora and Strike, and a lot of their players have taken leaps, and they want to push further into the playoffs. So it's not just the Rackas and Eases and Stayons of the world. There are a lot of very good players on the cusp who want to prove themselves.

i ran TWDT for 5 years straight and transformed it into what it is now, obviously i'm fucking pro-TWDT. you can be pro-TWDT and pro-TWL. my point is that TWDT is worse off without TWL long-term. if you're going to reply to what i write, please actually read my post.

Ye ur right. Im sorry again 4 that last post.

[Exalt]

as i said, i'm fine with TWDT being run next. i just think you have to run TWL at some point this year. to exalt's 'doubt' meme, they stopped running TWLs in 2017 and those players stopped logging in. it's not an opinion, it's a fact, because it happened 4 years ago.

I'm not against TWL at all. I just don't think anyone quits this game over TWl not running quickly enough. Those who were going to quit already did so, and many people quit for a long while only to come back, because this game lends itself well to that type of thing. I don't think there's anyone in the game that has never gotten burned out from it.

As for 2017, I don't honestly remember what happened. I don't even know if I was active at the time. Probably not. I do remember there being a long stretch though where TWL wasn't really viable in the first place, because there wasn't a large enough playerbase to make it seem worthwhile. There was a long stretch where this game dipped drastically in population before stabilizing to what we have now. Part of what we have now is also due to EG and other zones dying.

[beam]

If we do twl maybe 8 team cap with 4 week season 2 games a week 1 game / makeup week 4 I'm tired of having to face garbage like booker007 and lag killer in twld

[viop11]

any1 know when this will be decided so i kniw if i have 2 retrief playirs 4 ripitish or n1t

[Zeebu]

it makes sense to me to run a twl. like a lot of other people, i have some gripes about TWL, but they can all basically be blamed on lack of population. we no longer have a population that can support anything beyond the top tier level TWL squads. not and be remotely competitive anyway.

Mainly it will be the same 30-40 players combining in whatever ways to fill out 3 or 4 competitive squads per division, depending on roster caps. the point of twl is to get the best players that are still active and have them team up and compete against each other. it isnt meant for new or middling players like myself. there will certainly be opportunities to play for anyone who wants to if the TWL ops decide to have 8 squads or whatever though.

the bottom line is, stop bitching and trying to make TWL be some all-inclusive thing with league-wide parity. it isnt meant to be that, its meant to find out which squad is the best in their respective league. we already have an inclusive league in twdt. imo the worst possible things we could do for the zone would be to try and combine these two leagues.

[Geio]

IMO run TWL before the dead of summer comes, with TSL during the weekdays? Than go back to TWDT.

[PrOnEsSim]

We've had Draft Tourny, basing cup, and a draft tourny. Another draft tourny might be a litttle over kill. I think its time for TWL. Its usually run at this time as well. Shorter season agreed with because last season drained lots of players. Defiantly should host another draft tournament right after so activity doesn't die out or TWEL or some sort of league so interest is there after TWL ends.

-tj hazuki

[Dreamwin]

I honestly feel like its time for TWL as well. It's been 3 draft-type tournaments in a row and its time for something different. There are some benefits to it personally:
- Hard to feel motivated to same type of league again
- Hard to feel motivated to regular DT after there was cash prizes involved (after something else, just a regular DT feels nice)
- Keep TWL in sync compared to last year
- Zone can best handle SHORT TWL at this point of the year

I would like to see really short TWL alongside with TSL followed by TWDT to keep the momentum going. Summer break after while announcing next DT during summer DT playoffs. Let's not pretend regular season makes it any more or less valuable to win. The best teams will advance to playoffs and thrive in them regardless of playing 14 regular season games or not. The league simply is to cater top players + some up and coming player groups who want to prove themselves in the main stage.

How I would run it:
- 8 team cap (determining those 8 teams will be somewhat hard though, maybe simply make the cut using max star rating totals)
- 3 weeks of regular season. (games per week per division 3,3,1)
- Top 6 make playoffs, top 2 gets "bye". 3-6 will play quarters after week 3 reg season games)
- 2 weeks of playoffs, semi-finals and finals = 5 week total
- No soft lock / hard lock bullshit
- Even stricter roster limits. I have been telling this for years and years. It's always the same people starting anyway. Short season enables those small teams to commit every game -> Also allows talent to spread.
- Separate dueling / basing rosters
- Dueling leagues essentially need a starting line up and a sub. Limit rosters to 7 players in dueling - 10 in base.

Something along these lines. If I was running for politics, my TL;DR would be:
- EVEN SHORTER SEASON
- EVEN STRICTER ROSTER LIMITS

PS. I've been super lazy posting into forums and likely continue that trend going forwards. Special thanks to Wirah/Dad for donating money in this league, all league OPs putting their valuable time to create value for us innocent bystanders playing the spaceship game we love, Ogron for creating best HONs in the history (even though I missed a couple player of the week awards where I didn't even get a honorable mention) and Staff to make it happen.

[LeeRomeno]

I voted for twdt as it is obviously more fun for low-star players, but in reality, Accuracy experience in TWL was very positive one, playing in underdog team is very underrated, every achievement gives so much more than winning on stacked team.
Except for the fact that rosters should be separated for duelling and basing.
It should be possible for someone to play for basing squad in 1 team and if that team does not want to take part in wb/jav, he/she should be able to play that in some other squad.
I also strongly suggest to not narrow participants list down already from beginning, but give underdogs a chance as well, it does not have to be full season, maybe a few weeks of prequalifing based on some twd results or similar (without borrowing rules enforced?)