UPDATE: What's next?

[Turban]

I would personally prefer an event type tournament where players would compete in various different events and earn points based on their performance. I have always been an event player at heart and would love to see this scene flourish again like it did in the past.

Dueling tournaments are also nice, but definitely more niche as most players do not enjoy dueling matches too much for some reason.

In the end I am down for mostly anything, but for now a break from TWL and TWDT seems like the best option.

[RaCka]

I would like to be proven wrong but it seems to me that currently the zone isn't ready for twl/twdt/cups/etc. Perhaps the time is right for 1v1/2v2 dueling stuff.

Basically I am leaning towards anything but playing with the same group of people for 5-8 weeks. But I don't matter, so do whatever is best for the majority.

I would personally prefer an event type tournament where players would compete in various different events and earn points based on their performance. I have always been an event player at heart and would love to see this scene flourish again like it did in the past.

Dueling tournaments are also nice, but definitely more niche as most players do not enjoy dueling matches too much for some reason.

In the end I am down for mostly anything, but for now a break from TWL and TWDT seems like the best option.

Both solid ideas tbh, I always loved 1v1 and 2v2 leagues. I think 1v1 and 2v2 leagues need to be more of a sub-league because it's a very niche tournament in general there are probably 35-40 players in total who can compete in warbird and jav dueling leagues currently.

I would love for events to make a strong comeback and it would be great from an inclusivity stand point.

[SNOOPiE]

Would love to see TWBF (TW bombflag) mixed into some kind of competive stage. It never got the chance to prove to the zone how fun it can be if ppl try and play it rather than trolling around.

here is a video of the first two games ever played. Got better after that with new tiles and features, Its still a bit rough but with a little work its rdy for the big stage!

-snoop

[Omega Red]

I always enjoyed TSL and I think there was a decent amount of participation the last time I played it. Maybe players got burned out from it

if you guys run anything maybe consider running TSL on the side or overlap it with the basing/duel cup or the EG base duel just in case one of the leagues flops. I think I heard mentioned summer is a low point for activity anyways so it would be good to run something in between the next TWL/DT

[ogron]

Cup does seem the more popular option.



I don't really want to run leagues, but similar to what I did with TWDT from 2014 to 2016, I'm willing to run Warbird, Jav, and Basing Cups to establish a template for future head ops to build on.

I see Cup as becoming the 3rd league, with unique characteristics:

• Opt-out, not Opt-in. No signups.
• All playoffs (per ship) take place 1 day, requiring an extremely small commitment. Respect players time, especially since TWL and TWDT are the mainstays and Cup allows burnt out elite players to take time off, and just play a few warmup games the week of the playoffs and come in and compete for a championship
• Weekday games with lower points value. Keeps the player-base engaged, and allows players who otherwise wouldn't get in Sundays to get exposure and experience. Dare, for example, got this opportunity on Druids, put himself on the map, then got drafted to Power and won as a key starter in TWDT
• Almost all teams make playoffs, keeping subspacers engaged, keeping the commitment level low for players who want to take time off but are willing to show to 1-2 games + playoffs. I very-much liked the 5 out of 6 make it with a play-in, with benefits to each seed (#1 picks their opponent, #2 has immunity from #1 in semis, #3 avoids the play-in, #4/5 make playoffs)
• Separate rosters, separate drafts. No "you make the playoffs overall" like TWDT. It sucks having a championship TWDT-J line and you miss the playoffs because of WB/Base. Especially when Cup is run as a pure draft, we want some differentiation. I very much like this feature for TWDT, but it should stay in DT. Drafts should also be per-league, and you can simply create packages you draft with lots of non 9*/10* players in them like we did in old TWDT to keep the main draft time from going too long.

As to whether the Cup format is: TWL with a star cap, TWDT with no star cap, or a hybrid league (my personal favorite) where you start with a core of friends, then draft... not sure yet.

I'd have to talk to more players in SS. I'm back home now so I'll login today.

I'm guessing it would be 8 teams for wb/jav, 6 for base. If Hybrid, you could run a core of just WBs or just Javs and get drafted or opt out of other ships.

[RaCka]

Let Ogron set the precedent again, he did great with leagues in the past! I can also help out where ever needed for this upcoming league

[Vehicle]

I haven't logged on in a bit but do we have the kind of activity right now to support weekday games? The last cup was peak Covid and on the heels of TWL (IIRC), it's not a given that a repeat will be as successful as the last season.

Can I ask: What's the aversion to doing something more solo-focused like TSL? With all its problems, it was still popular and there are a number of easy quality of life changes that could be made to improve it. TSL -> TWDT -> TWL for Summer -> Fall -> Winter makes sense to me.

If we're looking to do something that would leak outside of just Sundays, I think the safer play is to do like TSL 6-8 with a baseduel tourny from 8-10 on weekdays. Or even, as someone suggested, TSL and a "events tourny" where we host some of the dozens of arenas out there (glider, tanks, gatez, fishies, ghoulgames) and award points to winners. (I'll even volunteer to run some of the events.)

Activity has dipped a little from what I can tell. Maybe that's just because nothings been announced, but we are going into the first real post-Covid summer. I would personally prefer something low-key with low buy in. But I guess that's just me and what Ogron's suggesting is pretty low buy in anyways.

[RaCka]

It's very common for activity to dip immediately following a league ending

[Vehicle]

I re-read ogron's post and it is a good structure for a low-stakes league. It's a good plan if there really is no appetite for TSL. I would maybe suggest having weekday star caps and then no cap on weekends?

You're right RaCka. Activity does also dip in the summer, though, and I would guess that that will be especially acute this year. What Og's suggesting is a perfectly fine plan to get around the potential for a dip, though. I guess I just strangely worry that, despite the game being 25 years old, if you always have a league running people will eventually get burnt out.

[ogron]

I haven't logged on in a bit but do we have the kind of activity right now to support weekday games? The last cup was peak Covid and on the heels of TWL (IIRC), it's not a given that a repeat will be as successful as the last season.

Can I ask: What's the aversion to doing something more solo-focused like TSL? With all its problems, it was still popular and there are a number of easy quality of life changes that could be made to improve it. TSL -> TWDT -> TWL for Summer -> Fall -> Winter makes sense to me.

That's a good point, although I think it's always been a struggle to get weekday games going. I think the key is simply reducing the amount of games to create borrow pools.

Running 3 games (6 teams) in Basing Cup in December 2021 was too hard, it was much better when we reduced it to 2 games (4 teams), creating 2 teams of borrow pools, and I think we successfully had almost every game be 8v8.

I'm confident that's an easier task in WB and Jav. But again, I've always been flexible on tweaking scheduling and borrowing rules mid-season to optimize quality of life, and put into the rules pre-season the 'nuclear option' of just deleting weekday games and doing Sunday-only.

TSL as a 5v5 league is over in my mind, I think you could convert it to elim and use the exact same website and system. Or, only give credit for wins, and create a new system. Either way, I think the lack of teams and tribalism and comradery really turn it into a selfish, toxic slog and TSL has never done anything but cause misery IMO. NGL I think it's one of my worst ideas, LOL. I mean it's super mediocre, it's not that bad or anything, but every time I play with or against Dak in TSL I feel like I'm going to have an aneurism.

I think activity could return if a good league is in place. I'll see if we can get some cores of players up, that would excite players to be drafted by those teams.

[Efhat]

Basing cup was a huge success as an inbetween into TWDT.
definitely think cups should be considered.

[ogron]

Basing cup was a huge success as an inbetween into TWDT.
definitely think cups should be considered.

The 4x TWLB finals MVP has spoken. No more talk. Let's fucking go. Make me and Racka mods of Basing Cup and Dueling Cup forums, put them both on the front page, and get something going before it's full blown summer and Cripp is on the beach macking on chicks in Miami.

If I have to read one more Riverside poll I'm going to lose it.

Maybe Sprackle can actually make us a website instead of mining spawn and making Dwopple pop a vein in his forehead.

[Dwopple]

The 4x TWLB finals MVP has spoken. No more talk. Let's fucking go. Make me and Racka mods of Basing Cup and Dueling Cup forums, put them both on the front page, and get something going before it's full blown summer and Cripp is on the beach macking on chicks in Miami.

If I have to read one more Riverside poll I'm going to lose it.

Maybe Sprackle can actually make us a website instead of mining spawn and making Dwopple pop a vein in his forehead.

LET'S. FKIN. GHOOOOOOOOYOOOOOOOOOOOOPOOOOOOOOOOOEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forreal tho I was mad confused until I realized how he was doing it. SHEESH.

[Riverside]

Any ideas on how 2 vs poll so we cud riqist more web devilipir voluntirs 2 assist sprickil n wirih?

Pirhips i can scale it from 1 2 5 in terms of likelihood or desire 2 help hm.

CUPS HYPE.