TWDT Season 28 Announcement

[RageRitual]

If keeping the *rating, don't remove half stars, they have helped, even if it makes capping a tiny bit more complicated. I guess math is hard for some people.

For the tier list, I mean I am always game to try out different things, but I think you would need to find a different way of putting players into teirs instead of just x rating goes into x tier. I think Will already touched on this a bit in his post but, most people have been playing so long the difference between an 8.5 and 9.5 is not as much as you would think, at least not in base. But the difference between a 7.5 and an 8.5 is huge. Without having tried the tier system, I make the assumption it will work much better in dueling leagues where there is a huge difference between each rating.

[Rab]

need forum cleanup and a signup thread asap

[LeeRomeno]

need forum cleanup and a signup thread asap

yeh, have requested it a while ago, hopefully can be done soon.

[bike]

Doesn't the no star limit of TW Cup solve the problem with fallible rating systems? A cap gets to decide who the best players are and puts them in...and have enough teams so max number of players get to play.

[Zeebu]

yes, lets remove some of the more nuanced and interesting aspects of twdt because vets are forced to bench sometimes.

if the plan is to turn it into some glorified drafted TWL league, go for it. its the final nail in the 'inclusive twdt' coffin.

[LeeRomeno]

yes, lets remove some of the more nuanced and interesting aspects of twdt because vets are forced to bench sometimes.

if the plan is to turn it into some glorified drafted TWL league, go for it. its the final nail in the 'inclusive twdt' coffin.

Yes which is why i believe tier system with allocated slots per tier are still necessary, to keep draft league as inclusive league as it can be. I just believe each year there have been several instances where misratings have given some players sort of guaranteed spot on roster, while at the same time, some players have been destined to bench just because they have been rated unjustly too high.

[Vys]

Doesn't the no star limit of TW Cup solve the problem with fallible rating systems? A cap gets to decide who the best players are and puts them in...and have enough teams so max number of players get to play.

But then that will go against the playtime of the people running this draft. Crazy how E sports in other games that leagues are played are catered to the best players competing and not running participation leagues. Mmr is the participation league and Sunday league games should have the most competitive games with caps fielding the best of the best. Not being forced to add basers or javs in warbird over actual warbirds.



There's a new draft league being ran in chaos league with already 80 signups. I would ask people to give the zone a go.

[JacKie>]

If keeping the *rating, don't remove half stars, they have helped, even if it makes capping a tiny bit more complicated. I guess math is hard for some people.

For the tier list, I mean I am always game to try out different things, but I think you would need to find a different way of putting players into teirs instead of just x rating goes into x tier. I think Will already touched on this a bit in his post but, most people have been playing so long the difference between an 8.5 and 9.5 is not as much as you would think, at least not in base. But the difference between a 7.5 and an 8.5 is huge. Without having tried the tier system, I make the assumption it will work much better in dueling leagues where there is a huge difference between each rating.

I agree that the difference between 7.5 and 8.5 is a lot so the tiers could be:

10-9.0
8.5-8.0
7.5-6.0

Or you go with four tiers since 6.5-6.0 is given to people who have really never played the league before or 1-2 seasons and are in learning mode.

10-9 = 8 pts
8.5-8 = 6 pts
7.5-7 = 4 pts
6.5-6.0 = 2 pts

It depends on who signs up but from the last TWDTB we had 28 (10-9), 30 (8.5-8), 42 (7.5-7.0), and 23 (6.5-6) which is 123 sign-ups with 8 teams for about 15 per team, and I don't know how many players a fall league will pull though.

With this system if there were 8 basing teams then everyone could get 3 (10-9's) and four teams would get 4.

Total points for basing could be 50 which you could play 4 from tier 1, 2 from tier 2, 1 from tier 3, and 1 from tier 4 and be at the cap. I think this makes sense because if you are one of the four lucky teams to have an additional tier 1 player you don't have to bench them and you also need to play 1 tier 4 player to compensate for your additional power.

For the other 4 teams they can play 3 top tier, 3-4 second tier, 1-2 third tier and don't need to play a fourth tier player but can if they need to.

This seems fair because no top tier players need to be benched (biggest bitch from some) and you get a good mix of players in each game.

The main problem I can see with this not too many fourth tier players will get to play so it doesn't really offer them a chance to play and get better. However, the show rate for fourth tier players is low to begin with (but mostly because they don't get to play).

AND OF COURSE the point cap will need to be adjusted based on how many people and at what level the people are who sign up!

[qan]

One possibility (inspired by the world of gambling): teams are allowed to play any line, but for a win to count for purposes of league standing, they must beat a margin calculated from difference in rating. Essentially a handicap system. Not sure how good it'd actually be, but it came to mind.

[LeeRomeno]

But then that will go against the playtime of the people running this draft. Crazy how E sports in other games that leagues are played are catered to the best players competing and not running participation leagues. Mmr is the participation league and Sunday league games should have the most competitive games with caps fielding the best of the best. Not being forced to add basers or javs in warbird over actual warbirds.



There's a new draft league being ran in chaos league with already 80 signups. I would ask people to give the zone a go.

Other e-sports games have i believe millions of players, we have around maybe 70-100. Check stats, twcup had around 40 players who had at least some participation in jav/wb, last twdt had around 80. Thats twice the players who have some reason to show up as they have at least some chance to play. Any draft league in any subspace zone will have only 1 main purpose: to make it as inclusive as possible and field players with different levels in order to keep as many players involved in game to prolong its death.
I do agree though that you should not force players in game, who rather not play at all over those who want to and the changes in structure (tier system and separate leagues) are exactly designed for that purpose.

[LeeRomeno]

I agree that the difference between 7.5 and 8.5 is a lot so the tiers could be:

10-9.0
8.5-8.0
7.5-6.0

Or you go with four tiers since 6.5-6.0 is given to people who have really never played the league before or 1-2 seasons and are in learning mode.

10-9 = 8 pts
8.5-8 = 6 pts
7.5-7 = 4 pts
6.5-6.0 = 2 pts

It depends on who signs up but from the last TWDTB we had 28 (10-9), 30 (8.5-8), 42 (7.5-7.0), and 23 (6.5-6) which is 123 sign-ups with 8 teams for about 15 per team, and I don't know how many players a fall league will pull though.

With this system if there were 8 basing teams then everyone could get 3 (10-9's) and four teams would get 4.

Total points for basing could be 50 which you could play 4 from tier 1, 2 from tier 2, 1 from tier 3, and 1 from tier 4 and be at the cap. I think this makes sense because if you are one of the four lucky teams to have an additional tier 1 player you don't have to bench them and you also need to play 1 tier 4 player to compensate for your additional power.

For the other 4 teams they can play 3 top tier, 3-4 second tier, 1-2 third tier and don't need to play a fourth tier player but can if they need to.

This seems fair because no top tier players need to be benched (biggest bitch from some) and you get a good mix of players in each game.

The main problem I can see with this not too many fourth tier players will get to play so it doesn't really offer them a chance to play and get better. However, the show rate for fourth tier players is low to begin with (but mostly because they don't get to play).

AND OF COURSE the point cap will need to be adjusted based on how many people and at what level the people are who sign up!

Good ideas and very close to what i had in mind. The tiers will be in the end based on signups and the amount of tiered players allowed on freq the same way. I see no real point in that 6-6.5 group, usually players there are so bad that they will not get any gametime (or even should) and the better 6.5s can easily be among the low tier and try to prove their worth there.

[wiibimbo]

Lol vys just compared a dead 2D spaceship game to E-Sports. What a sad individual.

[Zeebu]

One possibility (inspired by the world of gambling): teams are allowed to play any line, but for a win to count for purposes of league standing, they must beat a margin calculated from difference in rating. Essentially a handicap system. Not sure how good it'd actually be, but it came to mind.

I'd had this idea before but leaned towards modifying the death totals instead of a margin. either might achieve the desired result?

and if that is possible, keep it as a * rating and for each * over the rating, one person on that team gets -1 death. allow the reverse to be true, for each star under the limit, give a person on that team +1 death.

[Vys]

Lol vys just compared a dead 2D spaceship game to E-Sports. What a sad individual.

I'm just wanting the most competitive of games. I guess being a dumpster trash newb, this participation league will be good for you. Ill be in chaos

[Riverside]

Thank you Lee, Dwopple and Tiny. I am looking forward to a fun TWDT season.

In the future, a Beer League format could do well in contributing to objectives of inclusion. This could also invite players from other Zones to participate, especially with MMR (javelin) games often available. It can likely stand as its own league or be coordinated with other leagues (different times).

For example, Hockey Zones (HZ) Beer League has relatively high participation with players who are familiar and unfamiliar with the Zone. They also provide options to play at different times of the day & week, which I think could be implemented in a BL here.