Abortion: Good or Bad?

[arrogance]

Abortion isn't a good or bad issue, it's a choice that every woman (or ideally couple) should be allowed to make for themselves. It's nothing more then a method of birthcontrol. Also, instead of ending lives before they begin (or murdering as some people would argue) it also saves ALOT of lives. If an abortion can't legally be performed by doctors who know what they're doing, noboby can stop a woman from attempting an abortion herself, which can result in never being able to have children again or even death.

But when we're discussing it in the context of what should be law, there would likely be enough punishment to prevent most mothers from doing so. It's easy to claim that it should be a personal decision left up to the mother, but the obvious problem is that the life that's developing has no say in weather it's going to live or die, and some people feel the need to intervene on their behalf. Again, it's outlandish to even consider giving mothers the option to kill their children after birth just because they're in shitty circumstances, can't provide for them, and fear giving them up for adoption. It ends up at the same place, whats the difference between killing them after and killing them before. We can argue till we're blue in the face about when a fetus gets those rights, but it clearly starts to live after conception. Abortion isn't a form of birth control (or atleast not the same as others) because it takes place well after that process has begun, as opposed to other methods of birth control which prevent that life from ever coming about. The development of a fetus by the time most people even realize they're pregnant is staggering and amazingly complex.

I don't believe people should be allowed to terminate their childrens lives, and if they take it upon themselves to abort their child themselves doing who knows what to their own body and the childs, then that equates to something that should be illegal in my mind as well, the same as we consider child abuse etc. If it's found out, it should be punished. (in my perfect world) =]

[THE ENFORCER]

And if abortion isnt legalised then the woman can resort to physical violence upon herself to get it done which is dangerous.

Fallen Angel thats what i stated ages ago.

[Fallen Angel]

Fallen Angel thats what i stated ages ago.

And this effects the validity of my point, how exactly?

[THE ENFORCER]

And effects the validity of my point, how exactly?

Doesnt really, im just saying i stated it beforehand so there really wasnt any point to state it again....and i want credit for stating it before you lol
a gold medal would be sufficient.

[Troll King]

Dude, someone's agreeing with you; there's no need to say "I said that already". In case you haven't noticed, people have tended to side against you because of your attitude; chewing out those who agree with you isn't going to help.

[Fallen Angel]

But when we're discussing it in the context of what should be law, there would likely be enough punishment to prevent most mothers from doing so. It's easy to claim that it should be a personal decision left up to the mother, but the obvious problem is that the life that's developing has no say in weather it's going to live or die, and some people feel the need to intervene on their behalf. Again, it's outlandish to even consider giving mothers the option to kill their children after birth just because they're in shitty circumstances, can't provide for them, and fear giving them up for adoption. It ends up at the same place, whats the difference between killing them after and killing them before. We can argue till we're blue in the face about when a fetus gets those rights, but it clearly starts to live after conception. Abortion isn't a form of birth control (or atleast not the same as others) because it takes place well after that process has begun, as opposed to other methods of birth control which prevent that life from ever coming about. The development of a fetus by the time most people even realize they're pregnant is staggering and amazingly complex.

I don't believe people should be allowed to terminate their childrens lives, and if they take it upon themselves to abort their child themselves doing who knows what to their own body and the childs, then that equates to something that should be illegal in my mind as well, the same as we consider child abuse etc. If it's found out, it should be punished. (in my perfect world) =]

Just because it uses a different approach to deal with the same problem doesn't mean it's not a method of birth control. The morning after pill, in essence, does the same thing.

Arguing about whether or not a month old foetus is alive depends on your definition of life doesn't it? For instance if you use the biological definition of a life form as a guideline, a month old foetus does not nearly exhibit all the associated properties, and can be concidered as an "extension of the body" over which the woman in question has full rights, including the right to have it removed (pardon me if my analysis seems a bit clinical/cold). Now as soon as the foetus has reached a state in which it can clearly be identified as a seperate life form, the mother's right to decide its fate becomes void.

On a seperate note, I think it is completely unreasonable to assume a person is perfect and won't make a mistake, even though the (possible) consiquences of his/her actions (in this case: having sex) are known beforehand.

[THE ENFORCER]

Dude, someone's agreeing with you; there's no need to say "I said that already". In case you haven't noticed, people have tended to side against you because of your attitude; chewing out those who agree with you isn't going to help.

I know i wasnt being hostile or anything, i just want my medallion!

[Fallen Angel]

On a lighter note:



Kudos to THE ENFORCER for posting the exact same thing as me, half a century earlier!

[THE ENFORCER]

Theres so many people i would like to thank, my mum, my dad, my friends, G-d and especially all of you guys out there keep on rockin!

[Leaf]

Wow, so much text! Arrogance and Epi from what I've read. Go in to politics lols <3

[T3lCat]

I don't see why both male and female could be active at sexual activities, only some women get punished for it if abortion isn't allowed. Even if you use pills and condoms, you still run the risk of getting pregnant. There is always some chance you will get pregnant no matter what precaution you use especially if you are a healthy woman between the age of 16 to 35.

Just because I am not sexually active because I know one wrong step would ruin everything I have done so far to get my career going, and if I do accidently get pregnant I will keep the child, doesn't mean every other women holds the same view.

Maybe there are many sexually active women who can easily get pregnant just don't want give birth, considering:

1) you have to carry extra KGs for 9 months
2) you will be fat and ugly right after you give birth
3) labour pain is 10x worse than your worst period pain (so I heard)
4) you may suffer from post-labour depression (it is very common)
5) your body changes shape after you give birth, very likely you will never have the good body shape ever again in the rest of your life.

Some women are just not ready to give birth. Whose false is it if some other women are barren. If they are really desperate, go and adopt children from africa. Thousands of African children are dying from hunger every year.

[Facetious]

I still think anyone that wants kids, but that thinks they have the right to tell women not to get abortions should be willing to adopt at least one child from a prospective abortionee. If you people are that against abortion, why aren't you adopting to solve the problem?

[bloodzombie]

Simply put, men have the option of being deadbeat dads, moms do not. If a man gets a woman pregnant, they can easily run away. Furthermore, because the usage of a condom is basically under the control of the man, the woman in many cases has little to no choice to get pregnant while the man does not. Not all sex is consentual, and in many cases the man might force it on the woman and force them to 'consent'.

So the idea is, by allowing women to have abortions, you are giving more power and more rights to women. No longer can men impose on women this most important fact of life and just run away or at least use it in a form of control (i.e. "see you are pregnant now we have to marry"). Giving women back the power to control their lives is essential to allowing both sexes to have an equal amount of power in our society. This evens out the fact that men can opt out of almost all of the problems of getting pregnant, while women cannot.

In the end it is up to perception on your personal beliefs. If you believe that a fetus is a child, then you believe it's murder no questions asked. If you believe it's not murder then you probably believe abortions are okay. Regardless of what you believe though, in a free society where individual rights are firmly enshrined into the constitution, you cannot legislate a law that fundamentally challenges the rights of one half of the population and at the same time greatly increases the power of the other half over that half.

-Epi

This is the best post in this thread, but I have somewhat of an issue with it. aside from rape cases, women have just as much control in getting pregnant as men do. they can either make the man wear a condom or they can take the pill, wear a diaphram or even that weird female condom thing that exists but I don't know anyone who's ever used it.

If a woman gets pregnant, the man and the woman have gone in 50/50 to this point (like I said, except in rape cases), but now the man's power is taken away. The woman can decide to have an abortion, or to keep the baby. if she keeps the baby, that guy's fucked for 18 years whether he wants the kid or not. you say it's easy to be a deadbeat dad, sure, if you don't mind leaving everything behind and moving to another state and never having a good job.

And there's a lot of women who get pregnant on purpose (holes in the condoms, they stop taking the pill without telling you, there's even cases where she'll go to the bathroom after you, dig the condom out of the trash in inseminate herself with your goods).

So as far as I'm concerned, the woman already has the upper hand, it's 100% her choice whether she has a baby or not, and all a guy can do is either refrain from having sex, or protect himself as much as possible and take his chances.


we agree on the main issues, I just thought it was interesting that you think the man has the upper hand in the whole thing.

[Facetious]

You've never heard of someone using a female condom, but you've heard of women digging condoms out of the trash to inseminate herself? Seattle's wack, bz.

[bloodzombie]

I don't know anyone who's done either, but I've heard of both.