[Mafia] Someone is Watching

[the_paul]

What the hell is even going on right now with you 2?

[Voth]

Didn't you say you thought the name was about there being a watcher in the game? Why does that suggest a third party?

blah blah blah blah blah.... roleclaim or get lynched, scum.

[Voth]

You know Voth is Town because when he's scum he gets lynched D1.



But wins anyways...

Before Exalt explains his rationale, I'll offer a simpler, 2 part explanation:

Part 1- Town has only 1 weapon against the mafia, and we need to fire it as much as possible to win. Mafia wins by inaction- the longer a game goes on, the more likely it is that scum wins, simply because they WILL kill every night, meaning they advance their wincon regardless of day phases. Let's assume 2 mafia members. Absolute optimal play from town is lynch scum D1, someone is nightkilled N1, and lynch scum D2. To play optimally, we should lynch D1, right?

Part 2- when you declare no intention to lynch someone D1, the stakes are inherently lowered. Why would beast be threatened by your vote if you aren't going to keep it on him? We don't have to lynch anyone today, but if we say we aren't then there's no pressure, and no information gained. I have full intention of gaining information today, so let's start with a Vote Beast.

Why are you so evasive now? You seemed pretty thrilled about my alleged scum slip, and now you're doing all you can to deflect and avoid direct contact with me. Why are you so frantic to fill space with posts that don't directly address me or what I've said? Are you feeling a bit pressed?

[WillBy]

Well 3 bad phases for town in a 9-man game is gonna mean a horrible position anyway so I wouldn't rule it out because of game-balance reasons.

I find it weird we wouldn't have some kind of third party if you think about the game name. I don't expect one of town or mafia having some kind of all-seeing power.

Didn't you say you thought the name was about there being a watcher in the game? Why does that suggest a third party?

[WillBy]

Go back to lurking through phases when you pull a scum role, my friend. It suits you better.

You know Voth is Town because when he's scum he gets lynched D1.



But wins anyways...

[WillBy]

Ok well I'll put a placeholder VOTE for Beast for calling me scum this early and not wanting people to discuss and analyze about the possible roles and theme of the game. Also ready of course to remove it before I go to bed if I don't feel good about it.

Maybe some people that played back in the days may remember that I'm an advocate for abstaining day 1 if nothing special happens. Yes it gives mafia a night to get an advantage but they already have an advantage and know who to vote for. Town would just be shooting in the dark and you won't learn a lot from it because everyone can claim " day 1" and random guessing being the culprit for lynching a VT. But I'm happy to get a little more discussion going before making a decision one way or another.

Before Exalt explains his rationale, I'll offer a simpler, 2 part explanation:

Part 1- Town has only 1 weapon against the mafia, and we need to fire it as much as possible to win. Mafia wins by inaction- the longer a game goes on, the more likely it is that scum wins, simply because they WILL kill every night, meaning they advance their wincon regardless of day phases. Let's assume 2 mafia members. Absolute optimal play from town is lynch scum D1, someone is nightkilled N1, and lynch scum D2. To play optimally, we should lynch D1, right?

Part 2- when you declare no intention to lynch someone D1, the stakes are inherently lowered. Why would beast be threatened by your vote if you aren't going to keep it on him? We don't have to lynch anyone today, but if we say we aren't then there's no pressure, and no information gained. I have full intention of gaining information today, so let's start with a Vote Beast.

[Voth]

Oh boy, Vehicle suggesting there's a cult extra early...

If you know something I don't, feel free to share. But here's why I cant believe there would be a cult:

So there are 9 players total, lets pretend 1 is a cult leader and 8 are town. This leaves a potential for the cult leader to get lynched D1, ending the game instantly.

Alternatively, if there are 2 cultists (avoiding a D1 loss), then we have have only 7 town. A bad lynch D1, a successful recruit N1, and a mislynch D2 leaves 3 cultists and 4 town heading into a night phase, likely ending the game before D3.

Either of these options are pretty unbalanced, and the addition of a mafia or a SK just makes it worse.

While I don't expect most people to have analyzed cults/game balance as much as I have, I really don't think this is a path worth exploring. So I'll ask again- share information you may have about a cult, or let's focus on the mafia.

In my experience, typically the first person to suggest a non-mafia scum role, without any additional info (like nightkills, or specific roles) is scum themselves.

Oh my lord. Willby is so clearly scum this game that it is just brutal to watch. Latch onto some bullshit Vehicle said and go off on a soliloquy about cults and game balance, just to end it with "let's focus on the scum." Yes sir, please continue to send me in their direction as you have so generously done thus far.


Go back to lurking through phases when you pull a scum role, my friend. It suits you better.

[Voth]

You are correct that Voth is dangerous to town, but after playing with him and hosting quite a bit, I can confirm that Voth harming town is NAI

Why don't you two just talk on scum chat? You don't need to play games by interacting right here out in the open.

Cute!

[Soilderz]

Oh boy, Vehicle suggesting there's a cult extra early...

.........

Alternatively, if there are 2 cultists (avoiding a D1 loss), then we have have only 7 town. A bad lynch D1, a successful recruit N1, and a mislynch D2 leaves 3 cultists and 4 town heading into a night phase, likely ending the game before D3.

.........

Well 3 bad phases for town in a 9-man game is gonna mean a horrible position anyway so I wouldn't rule it out because of game-balance reasons.

I find it weird we wouldn't have some kind of third party if you think about the game name. I don't expect one of town or mafia having some kind of all-seeing power.

[Voth]

Caught Voth with a classic scum slip. Cant be a VT and be visiting people each night. Stay tuned for more scum slips.

It's adorable that I was able to catch you that easily. I expected more from you, Willby. If you were vanilla town, you'd know why I said what I said. The other VTs in this game must know exactly what I mean, as well. That means you're either scum or potentially a town power role. I'd guess scum since it is 100% your speed to send Jacklyn to do your dirty work. That is of course until you think you have an opening like you did there, where you surprisingly out yourself! Isn't that just lucky?

So there you have it, roleclaim or die, scum.

vote Willby

[WillBy]

there is a dangerous person

VOTE VOTH

You are correct that Voth is dangerous to town, but after playing with him and hosting quite a bit, I can confirm that Voth harming town is NAI

[Soilderz]

Ok well I'll put a placeholder VOTE for Beast for calling me scum this early and not wanting people to discuss and analyze about the possible roles and theme of the game. Also ready of course to remove it before I go to bed if I don't feel good about it.

Maybe some people that played back in the days may remember that I'm an advocate for abstaining day 1 if nothing special happens. Yes it gives mafia a night to get an advantage but they already have an advantage and know who to vote for. Town would just be shooting in the dark and you won't learn a lot from it because everyone can claim " day 1" and random guessing being the culprit for lynching a VT. But I'm happy to get a little more discussion going before making a decision one way or another.

[WillBy]

Isn't there like a cult thing where one person can secretly convert people to their clan without their knowledge? Maybe some kind of trigger that would put those people onto a scumgang? Would that count as a global modifier?

Oh boy, Vehicle suggesting there's a cult extra early...

If you know something I don't, feel free to share. But here's why I cant believe there would be a cult:

So there are 9 players total, lets pretend 1 is a cult leader and 8 are town. This leaves a potential for the cult leader to get lynched D1, ending the game instantly.

Alternatively, if there are 2 cultists (avoiding a D1 loss), then we have have only 7 town. A bad lynch D1, a successful recruit N1, and a mislynch D2 leaves 3 cultists and 4 town heading into a night phase, likely ending the game before D3.

Either of these options are pretty unbalanced, and the addition of a mafia or a SK just makes it worse.

While I don't expect most people to have analyzed cults/game balance as much as I have, I really don't think this is a path worth exploring. So I'll ask again- share information you may have about a cult, or let's focus on the mafia.

In my experience, typically the first person to suggest a non-mafia scum role, without any additional info (like nightkills, or specific roles) is scum themselves.

[WillBy]

Oh by the way, I'll be visiting you [...] each night

Caught Voth with a classic scum slip. Cant be a VT and be visiting people each night. Stay tuned for more scum slips.

[Voth]

Sounds to me, there is a dangerous person .. what I dont know.. its been a while since I played this. What's everyone take on this?

VOTE VOTH , you've been awfully quiet

who the fuck are you?


Looks an awful lot like a scum team sending a wildcard after me D1 because the one pulling the strings is too much of a pussy to do it themselves. For some reason, that feels an awful lot like it's Paul/Willby speed.


Anyway, I'll just throw it out there. I'm vanilla town and I'm actively furious at LF for not giving me a better role. Fuck you, LF.


Oh by the way, I'll be visiting you all in your dreams/nightmares each night if you kill me this early again. Fuck you all, bitches.