Debate

[Troll King]

Someone who switches back and forth between two opinions will at least be right 50% of the time, but that's still better than if someone is consistantly wrong.

[SpiderMage]

I think I will register to vote, just to get Bush out, or try to anyway.

But... being registered also means you are eligible for jury duty... I don't want to be eligible for jury duty! ><

[froedrick]

If Kerry gets in office just watch him go back and forth with his decisions on what to do.

I bet you can't even name one issue that he 'flip flops' about. The one that most people talk about is. 'Kerry voted yes to giving the president the ability to go to war, but now he says he's against it'. OK, Kerry voted saying that the president can have the ability to go to war, he didn't vote to say 'go to war now', and his stance on it now is that Bush should've used it as an absolute final option, which he didn't. Name something other than that. Which in reality he didn't actually flip flop on.

[Squeezer]

This is what pisses me off so fucking much. It's like the whole American Idol thing (as an example). IF someone from your hometown is in that shit, you don't vote for who's the better singer you vote for that person who's from your area cause you want to see someone you know be a big star. YOu're pro bush because you're from the same state and a republican, not because he's smart (which he's not), not because he has good ideas (lets open up wildlife reserves to look for oil!), and sure as fuck not smart about economy( I don't care what you say pv, you don't have tax cuts during a war, and in ten years you'll be feeling and 'paying' the price of the shitty ideas he's done with the economy, fuck he even fired his economical advisor who said "this is a quick fix and we'll be worse off in the near future")

Squeezer, I don't hate Bush. I think he's positively an idiot. I mean what kind of a world leader doesn't know who the prime minister of Canada is, I mean aren't we your biggest foreign trade country? or one of the biggest? What kind of world leader doesn't even know to say 'THE FRENCH' holy fuck are you shitting me? The 'francians'? I mean i don't have to worry wether or not I'd like him if he found a cure for cancer, cause he's too fucking stupid to not choke on a pretzel.

my point, which you so thourouly missed, is simply that you have all these "reasons" for hating Bush that it seems like you go out of your way to find screw ups. He's human, he's going to make mistakes. America and it's government is by no means infallible, so stop acting like we have to be. It's a tough job to have being the leader of the free world, and it should be treated accordingly. So please stop trying to grille the guy, because he's made a few mistakes, and start looking at EVERYTHING he has done, not just the bad.

[Squeezer]

Lets just let all the euros decide how our politics should work..they seem to be inside the circle of knowledge.

I watched the whole thing - i don't think either of them won. What would be fantastic is having more than 2 canididates to vote for. Because at this point, in my eyes, I'm just choosing who I think will fuck up less.

SMASHING THROUGH THE BOUNDARIES, LUNACY HAS FOUND ME!

this post is brought to you by the song "Battery" by Metallica

i hate double posting but thank u pee jeez. All the Euros and Canadians have it figured out, so therefore they should all just vote for us

[froedrick]

my point, which you so thourouly missed, is simply that you have all these "reasons" for hating Bush that it seems like you go out of your way to find screw ups. He's human, he's going to make mistakes. America and it's government is by no means infallible, so stop acting like we have to be. It's a tough job to have being the leader of the free world, and it should be treated accordingly. So please stop trying to grille the guy, because he's made a few mistakes, and start looking at EVERYTHING he has done, not just the bad.

Let's go through this shall we.

it seems like you go out of your way to find screw ups

No, he screws up in front of my eyes, I don't have to go out of my way to see it.

He's human, he's going to make mistakes. America and it's government is by no means infallible

Excuse me if I think someone who's a moron runs a country that has 2000 nuclear weapons and happens to be pushing war with other countries that are soon going to have said capabilities also as a nuclear deterent to the United States. I must be the asshole for caring about my families lives that could end in a nuclear holocaust.


It's a tough job to have being the leader of the free world, and it should be treated accordingly

He's supposed to be a leader of a 250 million population country(I think), that has if not the most, a whole fuck load of Nukes. He can't afford to make stupid mistakes. If I was working at McDonalds and I wrecked the stove, I'd get fired. Just the stakes are a little more high this time, no we can't cut him slack because the lives of millions are potentially in his hands.


he's made a few mistakes, and start looking at EVERYTHING he has done, not just the bad

What good has he done? He's allienated the UN by going against their laws, and then went back there with a speach that basically spat in the worlds face with things like, 'we must fight the war on terror together'. Excuse me his war in Iraq is just as much terror as 9/11. Go look at all the innocent civilians lives that are ruined from missed bombing attacks etc.

Fact is, there was no war on terror to fight until The US was attacked, even though it existed just as much.

Bush has also turned back 10 years of environmental accomplishments in order to make money.

1000 dead troopers in Iraq. Dood I'm not seeing the good he's done.

Don't pretend like because he makes mistakes that it's all right. It's not, if he's the leader of this supposed 'Free world' he can't fucking make them. It's not in the job description to make as many fucking mistakes as he has.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I'd like to hear, from the Bush supporters, positive things that have come out of this presidency.

Concrete proof, please.

[Bob (SRB)]

It's not like the republicans are making a decision when they decide to vote for Bush. They don't care what Bush has done, they've just been born and raised republican, by their narrow minded republican parents and are just going to follow that trend. Kind of like fundamentalist religion. Some people refuse to believe in evolution now matter how blatantly obvious it is, just like some people refuse to believe that Bush is a fucking moron and he is ruining their country (ironically both of these generally occur most in the southern states, coincidence?).

Then there are those complete morons who vote for Bush because they have been brainwashed into believing he is the only one firm and strong enough to control the situation in Iraq. Notice how this is basically the only issue republicans have been focussing on? People should stop and take some time to consider what else Bush has done to fuck up America. He's destroying the environment like nobody else ever has, he's created the most debt out of any president, he's basically immunizing all big corporate companies and their rich CEO's from all taxes while he's taxing the average working person more heavily (The rich just keep getting richer, the poor get poorer, what an awesome outlook on things), everything is becoming more and more privatized. All the power is going to the corporations, and taken from the people (democracy my ass), and so on and so on.

Froedrick made some other nice points about the stupidity of this man. Bush is not the leader of the free world, as some of you egotistical Americans think, he's the leader of America. And why put a man this stupid at the head of the most powerful Country in the world.

And you'd think that instead of saying something completely ignorant like "All the Euros and Canadians have it figured out, so therefore they should all just vote for us" These Bush supporters could take a hint from THE WHOLE FUCKING REST OF THE WORLD.

This has been Bob (KERRY4PREZ)

[froedrick]

Not to mention, this is the most jobs lost since the great depression. Hello recession? 5 million since he's been in office... lost? omfg

[Gemfire]

I'd like to hear, from the Bush supporters, positive things that have come out of this presidency.

Concrete proof, please.

Sorry, I'm not a bush supporter, buy I'd say lots of people are sure he does "good things" because of his tax breaks that benefit the rich(his friends) and dont do shit for the poor.(they go, OH HEY WE GET MORE MONEY, YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY)

[Troll King]

I don't understand why people are saying non-Americans shouldn't be able to discuss the U.S. election. Do they really think that this doesn't concern the rest of us? Or is it because they don't follow what happens in elections outside their own nation. A lot of people here addressing concerns about Bush are Canadian, for example, and this election will have strong repercussions for us up here. As long as the points they bring up are valid they shouldn't be dismissed just because they come from non-Americans. If you truly believe that you don't need to hear the opinions of people outside America, than you have to also ask yourself why many of those same people don't like when America does things that affect their nations.

[froedrick]

I don't understand why people are saying non-Americans shouldn't be able to discuss the U.S. election. Do they really think that this doesn't concern the rest of us? Or is it because they don't follow what happens in elections outside their own nation. A lot of people here addressing concerns about Bush are Canadian, for example, and this election will have strong repercussions for us up here. As long as the points they bring up are valid they shouldn't be dismissed just because they come from non-Americans. If you truly believe that you don't need to hear the opinions of people outside America, than you have to also ask yourself why many of those same people don't like when America does things that affect their nations.

Other than Pv, the rest of the people who defend Bush seem to be teens (18 or so) like squeezer, and apparently don't seem to want to accept the truth. Or are just completely blind to the truth. I honestly don't understand the mindset behind voting for someone who is consistantly wrong. I mean Michael Moore did point out most of this shit for you. He basically gave you all the information and underlined the important stuff and made it easy for even a 4 year old to understand. But it's being ignored. sigh.

[Squeezer]

i am not pro bush, and im not pro kerry. I just get sick and tired of people who constantly complain about Bush after electing him four years earlier. You guys bitch and moan about our current state, and call for Kerry to be elected, despite the fact that Kerry is no saving grace. John Kerry really is not going to change much of anything. Take us out of Iraq? No, Kerry is a supporter of both the Iraq war, and the draft. So the argument there is just flat out lost. If you wanna talk about the economy falling, it hasn't risen since the end of WWII, so that argument is lost. Don't get me wrong, there are some things which I think Bush is doing wrong. One such thing is forcing Christian values on our nation. Even though I'm christian, that doesnt mean its for everyone, and Bush should not force it upon everyone. Bush also screwed up our enviornmental plan, destroying the work of Clinton. But Bush has offered a lot of tax cuts, and he has done quite a bit for welfare in our country, as well as his laws on immigration. But in my opinion neither man deserves to be president, and neither man should be ridiculed as much as you guys do to Bush. I just get tired of it, thats all.

[froedrick]

i am not pro bush, and im not pro kerry. I just get sick and tired of people who constantly complain about Bush after electing him four years earlier. You guys bitch and moan about our current state, and call for Kerry to be elected, despite the fact that Kerry is no saving grace. John Kerry really is not going to change much of anything. Take us out of Iraq? No, Kerry is a supporter of both the Iraq war, and the draft. So the argument there is just flat out lost. If you wanna talk about the economy falling, it hasn't risen since the end of WWII, so that argument is lost. Don't get me wrong, there are some things which I think Bush is doing wrong. One such thing is forcing Christian values on our nation. Even though I'm christian, that doesnt mean its for everyone, and Bush should not force it upon everyone. Bush also screwed up our enviornmental plan, destroying the work of Clinton. But Bush has offered a lot of tax cuts, and he has done quite a bit for welfare in our country, as well as his laws on immigration. But in my opinion neither man deserves to be president, and neither man should be ridiculed as much as you guys do to Bush. I just get tired of it, thats all.

And here we go again weeee


Take us out of Iraq? No, Kerry is a supporter of both the Iraq war, and the draft.

Dun dun dun. If you paid attention to the debate or any of Kerry's many speaches. He has outlined a plan to help get the US out of Iraq in the next four years. And the plans seems plausible.


If you wanna talk about the economy falling, it hasn't risen since the end of WWII,

Oh sigh. First off. saying this is stupid for a number of reasons. Number 1, who gives a fuck even if the economy hadn't risen (which it did). IF he's making it even worse it wouldn't matter it doesn't make up for the fact that it's worse. And I've said repeatedly that Clinton made a surplus and the economy is going to be shit because Bush has changed it to a defecit and tax cuts during a war will only make the economy worse. Don't say that argument is 'gone'. When actual economists, (like Bush's own staffer who he fired for saying the tax cuts were wrong) are saying the economy is going to be fucked, you can't say, "err, the economys never been really great so you're wrong!".


But Bush has offered a lot of tax cuts, and he has done quite a bit for welfare in our country, as well as his laws on immigration.

TAX CUTS DURING A WAR THAT GOES TO THE RICHEST 1% OF THE POPULATION. 2.5 MILLION GET THE MONEY WHILE THE OTHER 248 MILLION DON'T GET SHIT. CAN YOU READ OR DO YOU CHOSE NOT TO?
Done a lot for welfare? What, like put 5 million more people on it, by casually bending over the economy and shoving his political dick right up in there, ya know just to mess it around a bit. And what has he done to immigration. Seems to me that Americans stereotype all Muslims as terrorists and automatically are put onto your terror watch. WATCH OUT IT'S CAT STEVENS HE MIGHT BLOW US UP WITH A GUITAR RIFF.

And just to end it off, I get tired of the people who support or defend Bush. If you can't see why we ridicule him and tell you not to ellect him, then frankly you shouldn't be given a power to vote. Which seems to be your only freedom these days...ironic.

[Sleepy Weasel]

I'd like to hear, from the Bush supporters, positive things that have come out of this presidency.

Concrete proof, please.

The patriot act has made my family safer from terrorism! Thank you President Bush.