Debate

[Pearl Jam]

I don't want such an awesome place to become shit. Peoples opinions of the US since Bush' term has become so low (internationally) people assume that all americans are like bush.

If everything around here is going to shit, I have yet to notice it. If I walked around saying "My opinion of Canada is very low because I feel they should do...THIS." would a Canadian take a step back and consider what I, an American, had to say? Most likely...no. In fact, it would probably be more of a "fuck no". I'm no uber-patriot, it's just hard to swallow peoples' negative positions on the country I live in when they never have.

[Troll King]

If I walked around saying "My opinion of Canada is very low because I feel they should do...THIS." would a Canadian take a step back and consider what I, an American, had to say? Most likely...no. In fact, it would probably be more of a "fuck no".

Actually, yes, they probably would. Half of Canada worried themselves an ulcer when Bush had his speech following 9/11 thanking other nations for their support and didn't mention us. "Getting along with the Yanks" even became a bit of an issue in the recent Ontario elections.

I know you're trying to make a point along the lines of Canadians not having walked a mile in America's shoes. The fact is that many Canadians are follow American politics and American issues very closely because there will likely be a ripple affect. Just because someone isn't American does not mean that they do not know enough to have an opinion. We might not have walked miles in your shoes, but we have walked kilometres along side.

[Pearl Jam]

Just because someone isn't American does not mean that they do not know enough to have an opinion.

You're right. But what I've stated is based on the comments made on this forum, not in the real-world international setting. On this forum, generally said person doesn't know enough.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Still waiting on that whole "positive aspect to this administration" thing.

[Jason]

I'm going to count to 297,856,234,981,103. Someone DAMN WELL BETTER have come up with something for Conc by then.

[Saturn V]

I'm going to count to 297,856,234,981,103. Someone DAMN WELL BETTER have come up with something for Conc by then.

That's over 9 million years. :eek:

[Dabram]

You say this, yet ure not around to experience what you call "the country going to shit." What you don't understand is that no matter who the president is, we are still gonna be the bullies of the world. This week it's Iraq, last week it was Kosovo. We are constantly at war with someone, and though i hate war, it will always be that way. It's the Roman Effect. You become the largest country in the world, so you get cocky and feel that everyone should be just like you. You then figure the only way to do it is with force. Rome was good at it, and America is good at it now.

Except they both don't really care if others "are like you".

[froedrick]

You're right. But what I've stated is based on the comments made on this forum, not in the real-world international setting. On this forum, generally said person doesn't know enough.

Pj I've been paying more attention to these elections then a lot of Americans have. I'm generally interested, and I do research on it. But if you were to come up to a Canadian (me for one), and said, your country needs to improve its gun control law (for instance), I probably say, you're fucking right we do. I know it seems like I'm anti-American, I'm not. Anti-Bush more like. But during the Canadian elections (few months ago), I was a volunteer for a person who ran and won his seat and I spoke openly against views from another moron Steven (stephen?) Harper. But that was on a different forum, because what American really cares about Canadian politics right?

Also, dood your unemployment is the highest it's been in ages. IF you don't notice them (I don't normally either) it's no surprise. But what I mean by 'things going to shit' is that, Canada is a huge US ally, and honestly the US has pissed off enough countries recently (NK). Terrorists seeing that Osama hasn't been caught, have become probably just a little more daring figuring, "hell we could do it too". I just see us as in more danger due to poor decisions by Bush when going after said 'war on terror'. I mean he sent Afghani military in to the mountains after Osama instead of US regulars, or marines. I don't think he was surprised whn he got away.

Once again I stress I'm not anti-american.

Squeezer. I'm not around to experience what? Just because I'm not in the country doesn't mean I', not affected by what your country does. I'm lucky that Jean chretien said no to helping the US in Iraq, cause then we'd be in that mess too and I honestly don't want to be in a position to get drafted into a war that I don't believe in. You do realise our economy has been affected by this right? Granted the Canadian dollar is the highest it's been in 10 years (79.3c/us dollar?) but that doesn't necessarily help us either. Our foreign exports are going to decline because it will become more expensive for smaller countries to buy from us. And then our main foreign trade country (DUN DUN DUN) the US, will become even bigger. ugh, I hate that you assume these decisions don't affect the world. And it's not as if we don't get your news channels or anything, so we do get a bit of insight into the mind of the average US citizen

[froedrick]

Hey conc, I believe this is from the 'No child left behind' act or something. But from what I hear it's supposed to be a decent idea for education. I'm not sure if it is so don't quote me on it.





Striving Readers: The Striving Readers Initiative will provide competitive grants to schools to give extra help to middle and high school students who fall behind in reading. The President's FY 2005 budget provides $100 million for the Striving Readers Initiative.

Mathematics and Science Partnership Program: Increased funding for the Mathematics and Science Partnership Program authorized in No Child Left Behind will provide extra help to middle and high school students who fall behind in math. The President's FY 2005 budget provides an additional $120 million for this Department of Education program.

Expanding AP for Low-Income Schools: Expansion of Advanced Placement (AP) programs in low-income schools will open the path to college for more Americans. The President's FY 2005 budget provides an increase of $28 million for the expansion of AP programs.

Math and Science Teachers: Creation of a $40 million incentive program will draw more math, science, and other professionals from the private sector to teach part-time in our high schools. The President's FY 2005 budget also includes $227 million in loan forgiveness for math, science, and special education teachers in low-income schools.

State Scholars: Increased funding for the State Scholars program, which requires 4 years of English, 3 years of math and science, and 3½ years of social studies, will help make it available nationwide. State Scholars encourages high school students to take more rigorous courses to prepare them for college and the workplace.

Secondary and Technical Education: The Perkins Vocational Education program will be redirected into the new Secondary and Technical Education program (Sec Tech), which requires that schools participating in the program offer 4 years of English, 3 years of math and science, and 3½ years of social studies as part of their vocational education curriculum, and will prepare students for careers and technical education fields.

High School Accountability: States will be called upon to participate in the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) for 12th graders to ensure that students graduating from high school have the skills they need to succeed in post-secondary education or careers.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

If the ESEA can stop all you bastards from using "teh" and horribly misusing there, their, and they're, I'm all for it.

I agree, the "No Child Left Behind" Act (as it's come to be known) sounds fantastic on the surface. But the fact of the matter is that it's a flashy nickname thrown on a bill that doesn't quite cut it. As "bleeding heart liberal" as it sounds, it's just simply asking too much of an already overburdened education system, with the payout being far too little. The law was passed in January 2002, and by February, 20 states out of 50 were asking the federal government for changes in the law or more money, and an additional six states were studying the costs. That's half the states in the union, folks. Not a good statistic.

A good idea, yes, and the payoff is great in the long run. Like a lot of things enacted by this administration, though, the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

[Jeansi]

That's over 9 million years. :eek:

maybe he is a fast counter

ps. I just discussed this at school and heard a very interesting statement about kerry: "We are not safe until America controls the world."
Makes me a bit worried to hear that but he can't be worse than bush

[Gemfire]

Ive only got to the post by tk and froedrick(the one where tk asked why we think they shouldnt have a voice in our elections). I personally do listen to the thoughts of others, but tend to shy away from the people that sit there and bash americans as a whole because a lot of people support bush. Not all americans support bush(btw froedrick, im 17, and i dont support bush ) but yet people all say AMERICANS ARE STUPID etc. Thats what gets me is the generalizations(sp?).

edit: I actually did post after that, but i hadnt read the posts for a few up, so just now read those ones btw

[bloodzombie]

maybe he is a fast counter

ps. I just discussed this at school and heard a very interesting statement about kerry: "We are not safe until America controls the world."
Makes me a bit worried to hear that but he can't be worse than bush

You probably shouldn't quote something that you heard that someone said from a kid at school. Tell me when he said that and the context it was in.

Problems with "no child left behind":

Disabled kids are expected to pass the same standardized tests as regular kids. Therefore, states have to lower standards so that everyone can pass the same test.

If any subgroup of kids in a school don't demonstrate proficiency (pass the standardized test), the school is labeled a "failing" school and all this extra stuff is supposed to happen, but there's not even a fraction of the funding for the extra hours and manpower needed

If a school is a failing school, they want to be able to bus the kids out to different schools. How do you think our inner-cities became so bad in the first place? we tried that before and the poor kids get bussed into the rich neighborhoods, then the rich people move out to the suburbs. Also, the "failing" school must use up to 20% of its funding to support the transfers, giving the school even less money to work with, on top of that, the schools that they're transferred to don't receive any additional funding for the extra kids that they already don't really have room for.

In order to pass the tests, the underfunded schools will be forced to sacrifice broader cirricula to focus on math and grammar.

in no child left behind, there is a "highly qualified teacher" provision where every teacher must be "highly qualified" in every subject that they teach. While that sounds good in theory, there are highly successful (high percentage of kids go to college) schools in rural areas where one guy is the principal, the bus driver the gym teacher and science teacher, and it's just unrealistic to expect them to go back to college and get a major in physical fitness, there's also not funding to help them do that.

The main issue comes down to funding. This just screams of an unplanned bill with a fancy name that makes it sound like they're doing something good.

[Troll King]

Ive only got to the post by tk and froedrick(the one where tk asked why we think they shouldnt have a voice in our elections). I personally do listen to the thoughts of others, but tend to shy away from the people that sit there and bash americans as a whole because a lot of people support bush. Not all americans support bush(btw froedrick, im 17, and i dont support bush ) but yet people all say AMERICANS ARE STUPID etc. Thats what gets me is the generalizations(sp?).

edit: I actually did post after that, but i hadnt read the posts for a few up, so just now read those ones btw

Where in this thread has anyone said anything about Americans being stupid or that America sucks? The only things I see are people saying that America is having problems, but those problems were caused by the Bush administration. Where is this alleged America bashing? I hope we aren't looking at an instance of "if you are bashing our president then you're bashing America!" If the only evidence you can find is Froedick saying something about "America turning into shit", then you obviously ignored the "I don't want to see..." that started the sentence. The next strongest comment was someone saying that "leader of the U.S." doesn't mean "leader of the free world".

The only criticism going on here is about Bush, not of America.

[Dameon Angell]

Anyone gonna see the Vice Presidents duel it out? Or will nobody care?