Hiroshima Remembered

[Da1andonly]

I thought they dropped (atleast the first) atomic bomb sort of to..."test it out", on HUMANS.

[Mr. Peanuts]

In Nagasaki, THEY LIKE BUKKAKE

[Suh]

werent both bombs made of a different substance? Plutonium and Uranium. therefore potentially different results


2 tests :fear:

[RATTY...]

Ok, I want you to go talk to a WWII vet who was fighting in Japan. I want you to think about what you are saying. The Japanese people were fighting for their lives, and would have killed perhaps Millions of Americans. They thought their Emperor was God, and would fight for him until to extremes of kamakaze and honorable suicide.

Read this, and you will find it quite helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...f_atomic_bombs

At the time of the bombing the air and sea blockade was cutting off the Japanese supplies and important goods, while strategic bombing was devastating their many cities and populated areas.

The mass devastation of the bomb caused millions of the Japanese to lose their homes and destroyed 25% to 50% of the densely populated areas of Japan’s most important cities. The U.S. strategic bombing survey concluded that in all probability, prior to November 1st, 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated. The war department concluded that the Japanese leaders had already decided to surrender and were only looking for a good reason with which to convince the Die Hard Army Group that Japan had lost the war. Another document from the Joint Intelligence Committee said that Russia’s entry into the war in August would and should have convinced the Japanese military leaders that they had no other choice but to surrender.The Americans had confidence in Japanese capitulation upon the Russian entry into the war.

The dropping of the bombs was also unnecessary because of the number of civilian casualties the bombs caused. Some people say that the bombs saved millions of American lives, but certain studies show that that is incorrect. A study done in 1985 shows that the most deaths that could possibly have occurred would have been no higher than 20,000, and it was likely for there to be no American deaths at all.

About 68 percent of Hiroshima was completely destroyed by the bombing, and another 24 percent was damaged. The Supreme Allied Headquarters reported that 129,558 people were killed, injured, or missing, and 176,987 were made homeless. Hiroshima before the bomb Hiroshima after the bomb About 280,000 civilians and 40,000 soldiers were living in Hiroshima when Little Boy struck the city with a force of 20,000 tons of TNT. Approximately 100,000 people died immediately in the blast or in the fire. Many others died weeks, month, or years later. Hiroshima had about 80,000 buildings at the time. 48,000 were completely destroyed and another 22,000 seriously damaged.




So why was the bomb dropped? To show the Soviets your technology? Test how the effect of the bombs worked, even though the nation were gonna give up soon? To avoid a costly land invasion by the americans? You weigh up the casualties. was it really worth it? Isn't it funny how lives can so easily be dismissed when they aren't those of americans?

I would like you to talk to survivors from Hiroshima and hear what they have to say. NOTHING justifies the bombing.
And I won't have some ignorant nerd try to lecture me.
I don't know what they do with stupid american kids, but it seems easy to brainwash them or do propaganda. They are taught that america was right no matter what, without looking at both sides. Always look at both sides.

And may I present you, Mr. DoTheFadango himself, the average american: Fat, Stupid, Ignorant, and don't forget, Ugly. A pure product of america, and american propaganda:



P.s Feel free to post a picture of me, I'm quite sexy.
Btw, I'm gonna tear your fucking limbs off if I ever see you. Stupid people like you shouldn't live, you only breed more stupid kids.

[Mr. Peanuts]

What the fuck ratty.

[Superted]

Ratty pwned.

[Epinephrine]

stuff

RATTY, it's easy for you now sitting in your comfortable chair 60 years later in peaceful Norway to say that it was completely unnecessary. No matter how you see it, the decision to drop the bomb was an extremely tough choice and made given the amount of information that president Truman had at his disposal. Don't forget that there was a POW camp in Hiroshima, and that the bomb was responsible for killing many Americans as well even if you think that wartime Truman was absolutely heartless towards Japanese civilians.

The fact is, Japan of the era was a military culture. The Americans had seen first hand how the Japanese were completely willing to sacrifice their lives in suicide Kamikaze raids for their emperor and suicide charges to the death as seen in Iwa Jima and Okinawa. They were taught at the Americans would be ruthless towards them if captured, and were told that there was greater glory in committing suicide then risk being tortured by the Americans. Since their sun-god emperor said so, the soldiers followed this command and many to the horror of American troops lept to their deaths in Iwa Jima at least instead of surrendering.

This was not an emeny that was going to give up easily. Japan wanted a conditional surrender, basically laying down the arms but keeping everything else in tact. A WWI type surrender if you may. This was completely unacceptable to America and I could see how it would be unacceptable to China, America's ally in WWII. A WWI-like laying down of arms at the end of the war had just been proven to be completely fruitless by the armies of Hitler, and America knew that it needed an unconditional surrender in order to remake agressive, imperialistic and militaristic Japan into a peaceful country to bring peace to the far east.

It's very easy to say that Japan was already beaten and wouldn't have fought on because of hunger and so on. But they certinaly did have enough bullets and other military supplies to fight an effective gureilla campaign in Japan proper. The military government at the time even developed strategies that told its citizens (men and women) to use bamboo knives and strike down any Americans that they might see. In fact this order was about to be issued and would have come into effect on August 15th if Japan did not surrender then. Taking another look, remember that Britian too had been devestated by Nazi bombing but as Churchill's famous speech tells us, Britions would have fought on the beaches, on the landing grounds and never surrender. Why wouldn't Japan do the same considering the power of the emperor system?

The dropping of the bombs was exactly what was needed to convince Japan that America was dead serious. Those who wield such military power can only understand greater power when it is used to great effect. Even after Hiroshima, the Japanese government was silent, believing it was an one-off deal. It wasn't until Nagasaki occured and America threatened with many more bombs did Japan realize that they could not continue this, that they were truly beaten.

As for the innocent lives? I feel bad that so many were vaporized so late into the war. Yes their deaths were tragic, but many more people died in the bombings of Tokyo and the firebombing of Dresden then did in Hiroshima, and back then the effects of radiation were not fully understood (in the end radiation-related diseases accounted for 1/2 the total deaths). The nukes were seen as 'bigger bombs'. They in no way had the same power and mystique as they do now. Saying nothing justifies the bombing implicitly argues that nothing justified any other bombing on population centers during WWII. While this is an interesting argument, I'd like you to explain a better way of fighting that the allies could have used in WWII to win the war given their situation. The world had long crossed the line of indiscriminate killing of civilians by then, and this was just another act.

What WAS tragic was that the world had resorted to such an act in the first place. The war was so screwed up by then that it was felt to be justified to kill so many in order to secure the peace. I hope that decision will never be made again and that Hiroshima and Nagasaki will serve as reminders of the horrible power of war without limit.

[RATTY...]

even more stuff

Well said Epi.

I just got pissed when I saw the posts in this thread, how many people who said that it was ok that america bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That the japanese deserved it and it was all right. Without reading about it, and from both sides.

Especially the comment from DoTheFadango. I've never seen such a stupid comment ever in my life. I'm just after DoTheFadango's ass, cause he came up with an ignorant shit comment without any facts to rely on.

I still believe they could have done anything else than bombing Japan.

I read numerous primary documents, some even documented from the emperor or secretary of the emperor, saying that they were in negotiations with the U.S., and planning on surrendering. In fact, the Japanese were already devastated, the firebombings alone killed many more Japanese. The Japanese spirit was already crushed before the dropping of the atomic bombs, and the Japanese were literally days or months away from surrendering.

The U.S. just wanted to claim more land and prevent the Soviets from claiming any. Pathetic but the truth. The atomic bombs weren't necessary, it was unjust. Only dumb pricks and uneducated idiots support the dropping of the bomb.

There will always be 2 sides of a case, this discussion can go on forever.

[Rigor]

the reason the Japs were so harsh on Allied POW's was because in their eyes defeat or surrender were seen as dishonorable and shameful, it wasnt because they were evil, it was all a matter of culture

it wasnt because of their culture, it was because they were barbaric savages

the japanese people today are fine though

[Rigor]

lol dork, I did a research paper on this. You're going based on America's justifications. I read all that bullshit and you've said it all. The U.S. wanted to show their power over the rest of the world, especialyl Russia. They didn't want the Soviet Union to get involved in WWII and claim any land that they would have won after the war was over, so in order to end the war with Japan, the U.S. decided to drop the atomic bombs. They say that it was because they built these million dollar bombs and wanted to test them out, but from their atomic bomb tests (at the designated sites), they already knew what kind of destruction these bombs would/could bring. The U.S. made up different justifications to get the support of the american people, such as ending the war to prevent a full-scale invasion on the Japanese, or that the Japanese were willing to fight until the end and something of this sort had to have been done.

I read numerous primary documents, some even documented from the emperor or secretary of the emperor, saying that they were in negotiations with the U.S., and planning on surrendering. In fact, the Japanese were already devastated, the firebombings alone killed many more Japanese. The Japanese spirit was already crushed before the dropping of the atomic bombs, and the Japanese were literally days or months away from surrendering.

The U.S. just wanted to claim more land and prevent the Soviets from claiming any. Pathetic but the truth. The atomic bombs weren't necessary, it was unjust. Only dumb pricks and uneducated idiots support the dropping of the bomb.

Ok I also studied this and im not a moron

I agree with u that another reason that the americans dropped the bomb was that they wanted to test it and prove power etc.

But the main reason was to end the war so the japanese didnt have to fight down to the last man. it would of been a massacre in the invasion and more lives would of been lost. and i assure u that the japanese military had no intent of surrending and were willing to go on until they all died(kamikaze etc.). japanese had a sense of pride and power that would not be easily broken and the bomb was necessary to break the pride in the japanese once and for all. o and when the japanese military leaders went to sign the treaty many of them were ready to commit suicide. Sure theyd give up after they all died. but the emperor finally took control of the situation and it all smoothed out

O Yea how is japanese burning americans alive and starving them to death "bull shit" ?

[DoTheFandango]

How I see it is this:

If we didn't bomb them, up to 100,000 American POWs would have died. (Wikipedia.Org)

Supporters also point to an order given by the Japanese War Ministry on August 1, 1944. The order dealt with the disposal and execution of all Allied POW's, numbering over 100,000, if an invasion of the Japanese mainland took place. (It is also likely that, considering Japan's previous treatment of POWs, were the Allies to wait out Japan and starve it, the Japanese would have killed all Allied POWs, and Chinese prisoners.)

If we didn't bomb them, MILLIONS of Others could have died.

In addition to that, the atomic bomb hastened the end of the Second World War in Asia liberating hundreds of thousands of Western citizens (including about 200,000 Dutch) and 400,000 Indonesians ("Romushas") from Japanese concentration camps. In addition, Japanese atrocities against millions of Chinese were ended.

If we didn't bomb them, the amount of deaths in American soldiers could have been massive.

The Americans anticipated losing many soldiers in the planned invasion of Japan, although the actual number of expected fatalities and wounded is subject to some debate and depends on the persistence and reliability of Japanese resistance and whether the Americans would have invaded only Kyushu in November 1945 or if a follow up landing near Tokyo, projected for March of 1946, would have been needed. Years after the war, Secretary of State James Byrnes claimed that 500,000 American lives would have been lost - and that number has since been repeated "authoritatively", but in the summer of 1945 US military planners projected 20,000-110,000 combat deaths from the initial November 1945 invasion, with about three to four times that number wounded. Many military advisors held that a worst-case scenario could involve up to 1,000,000 American casualties.

And there is no reason to call out personal attacks on my looks and post a picture of me. Don't be a dick, you were the one that wanted a debate, and you got it. Now if you want to continue talking like an idiot, let me save my time by even gracing you with the chance to talk to someone with a higher IQ than you (just about everyone).

PS: I am not some one sided America buttfucker like you have generalized me as being. I am not a complete retard, and I do, shockingly, know what I am talking about. I am against War in general. I protested the War on Iraq, I protested the RNC.

But of course, this is lost on you. To you I am a Marbolo smoking, Coors Light drinking, Trucker hat wearing, NASCAR watching idiot.

Of course, War is horrible. It is a shame that it happens. It is a shame that it had to end up with two attacks, but this is how it ended, and it ended promptly.

[Superted]

Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

(Including Tone)

[scumbag]

werent both bombs made of a different substance? Plutonium and Uranium. therefore potentially different results

the one dropped on Nagasaki was nicknamed "fat man", it was 2 times the destructive power of the one dropped on Hirosh

[Suh]

the one dropped on Nagasaki was nicknamed "fat man", it was 2 times the destructive power of the one dropped on Hirosh

ahhhh but it slipped into a valley thus reducing its possible destructive power, it could have killed alot more




me and scumbag the history buffs

or watchers of the same anniversary programme

[scumbag]

ahhhh but it slipped into a valley thus reducing its possible destructive power, it could have killed alot more




me and scumbag the history buffs

or watchers of the same anniversary programme

id go with the latter ^-^