Gas prices today.

[Cops]

If there ever was a time to buy a house, that time is now. Not here though, but If I had some money I'd like to buy something down south.

Dank - is a 200,000 houses considered a lot in your city? A house in downtown Toronto is easily $400-500k, and that's not like a big house with a picket fense either. Suburban houses are usually 300,000 where as Town Houses can go above or below 200,000 depending on how bad the area is.

[404 Not Found]

Fuel costs may create a boost for urban renewal and jobs.

In my home town of Philadelphia, in recent decades there was a mass exodus of people fleeing from the city to the suburbs for the prize of owning land in a nice rural setting. In the past few years Philadelphia has seen a reverse of this exodus, with new two story luxury loft-condo's being built and sold at reasonable prices all over the center city area, people are coming back and dumping the big ass houses and property-school taxes that come with them, not to leave out the price of gas to drive back and forth with the compounded monthly parking fee's that come with this situation.

The commute to and from work has taken its toll on many, to the point of which the outcome is a big city being revitalized.

If I was in a situation of which my commute to work was ridiculous in time as well as costly gas wise, I would relocate if I could and move and find a new job of which would be economically in my favor.

No way in hell I would keep a job if my drive back and forth to work was an hour in each direction with or without traffic. I know the Southern CA situation really sucks, especially those that do the commute back and forth from the L.A. area to OrangeCounty every day. I could never deal with that…not sure how some of my friends do it on a daily basis.

A city like Cleveland though is somewhat screwed in noting that there really are no center city condos or apartments. The city also closes down after 6pm and becomes a ghost town surrounded by commuting neighborhoods that surround the city. It is an urban nightmare. Traveling to work if you live in a city like Cleveland is basically your only option.

Fule prices may create a new pattern as to housing and work environments bringing people back to an urban lifestyle and forfeiting the country home setting for many in the future.

[DankNuggets]

Dank - is a 200,000 houses considered a lot in your city? A house in downtown Toronto is easily $400-500k, and that's not like a big house with a picket fense either. Suburban houses are usually 300,000 where as Town Houses can go above or below 200,000 depending on how bad the area is.

completely depends on the neighborhood. inside the city, you can have $500,000 two blocks away from $40,000 houses. In the neighborhood i'm in now, 200,000 would get you a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house, but it would be at least 50 yrs old and probably only one story. In the suburbs, you won't find 200,000 houses, they're all more $ but nicer (4 bed 3 bath, 2 story). or conversely, they're cheap but very small 2 bed 1 bath for probably <200k. In the country, you could have a mansion for 200k.

In my home town of Philadelphia, in recent decades there was a mass exodus of people fleeing from the city to the suburbs for the prize of owning land in a nice rural setting. In the past few years Philadelphia has seen a reverse of this exodus, with new two story luxury loft-condo's being built and sold at reasonable prices all over the center city area, people are coming back and dumping the big ass houses and property-school taxes that come with them, not to leave out the price of gas to drive back and forth with the compounded monthly parking fee's that come with this situation.

This is exactly what's happening here. People are still moving further and further away from the city, but more are moving inside too. The problem comes in that no one wants to live inbetween: those that moved away have moved further b/c of newer housing developments, and those that don't want to commute anymore are moving into the city. This leaves tons of for sale homes in crowded suburbs just outside of town, and crowded highways that weren't ment to hold rush hour traffic. At leat 4 sets of condos(no idea on the rooms, but 5-8 stories a piece) have been built in what was previously industrial land and farmer's market land. Granted, it's next to the football stadium, but since each condo is around 100-200k, that's easily hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate gone up inside the city within a year of each other. I don't know where the people are coming from, it's not like the city is expanding that much.

[Cops]

Fuel costs may create a boost for urban renewal and jobs.

In my home town of Philadelphia, in recent decades there was a mass exodus of people fleeing from the city to the suburbs for the prize of owning land in a nice rural setting. In the past few years Philadelphia has seen a reverse of this exodus, with new two story luxury loft-condo's being built and sold at reasonable prices all over the center city area, people are coming back and dumping the big ass houses and property-school taxes that come with them, not to leave out the price of gas to drive back and forth with the compounded monthly parking fee's that come with this situation.

The commute to and from work has taken its toll on many, to the point of which the outcome is a big city being revitalized.

If I was in a situation of which my commute to work was ridiculous in time as well as costly gas wise, I would relocate if I could and move and find a new job of which would be economically in my favor.

No way in hell I would keep a job if my drive back and forth to work was an hour in each direction with or without traffic. I know the Southern CA situation really sucks, especially those that do the commute back and forth from the L.A. area to OrangeCounty every day. I could never deal with that…not sure how some of my friends do it on a daily basis.

A city like Cleveland though is somewhat screwed in noting that there really are no center city condos or apartments. The city also closes down after 6pm and becomes a ghost town surrounded by commuting neighborhoods that surround the city. It is an urban nightmare. Traveling to work if you live in a city like Cleveland is basically your only option.

Fule prices may create a new pattern as to housing and work environments bringing people back to an urban lifestyle and forfeiting the country home setting for many in the future.

same shit is happening with Toronto, people are realizing that the suburbs are easily a 40 minute commute and that with raising gas prices the cost of traveling to and from work is becoming ridiculous. I still think we're far better off than some cities, Toronto has reliable trains and buses that cost a lot less than driving. I don't know though living in Toronto would be alright but honestly it's expensive and not that great, as far as the night life goes and entertainment Montreal is far better. I'll end up doing my co-op downtown next year but I'd rather sit on a train for 30 minutes rather than sitting in my car in bumper-to-bumper traffic for 45 minutes to an hour. Driving in most cities is fucking stupid anyway.

[Cops]

completely depends on the neighborhood. inside the city, you can have $500,000 two blocks away from $40,000 houses. In the neighborhood i'm in now, 200,000 would get you a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house, but it would be at least 50 yrs old and probably only one story. In the suburbs, you won't find 200,000 houses, they're all more $ but nicer (4 bed 3 bath, 2 story). or conversely, they're cheap but very small 2 bed 1 bath for probably <200k. In the country, you could have a mansion for 200k.

You couldn't find anything for less than $200,000 - $250,000 in Toronto. A 3 bedroom house with 2 bathrooms would easily go for 500,000. The suburbs are cheaper as far as houses go but even the price is rising and rising that soon new families to this country won't be able to afford a starter home.

[404 Not Found]

On the flip side of rising housing costs we see that the equity value of homes dropping like a lead weight that had not been seen here in the States since 1946.

Property values will be interesting to watch in the next few years, as many may just move to rent/lease houses, condo's and apt.'s until there is some stabalization, this will also allow one to avoid being forced to pay the property and school taxes that come with ownership.


Equity will play a big role in how this moves, with equity losses making ones home value less than the current mortgage they are paying this is creating quite a bit of problems on various economic levels.

Will you be better of as a buyer or seller? Rent or Own?

[Pearl Jam]

My thoughts match what a few people in this thread have already touched on. Everybody needing a ridiculous amount of space in this country is what makes the rising gas prices so hard to handle. We're reaping what we sow (in this case, about 30+ years of heinous urban sprawl) at this point. Also, pubilc transportation in literally 80-85% of major cities in the United States is a complete joke, which doesn't help.

[Singularity]

One thing I'm curious about, I'm used to cycling for distances under 6 miles or so, is this feasable in mid-sized US cities in terms of safety and such? Currently I'm doing 2x 7 miles daily to go to university which takes me roughly 2 x 35 minutes. In fair weather it is a lot nicer than public transport and it sure beats everything cost-wise (bike cost me $60 to buy and $30 to repair and carried me everywhere for a year already). Saves a couple of bucks daily too =)

[404 Not Found]

One thing I'm curious about, I'm used to cycling for distances under 6 miles or so, is this feasable in mid-sized US cities in terms of safety and such? Currently I'm doing 2x 7 miles daily to go to university which takes me roughly 2 x 35 minutes. In fair weather it is a lot nicer than public transport and it sure beats everything cost-wise (bike cost me $60 to buy and $30 to repair and carried me everywhere for a year already). Saves a couple of bucks daily too =)

It really depends on the location/city for cycling to be addressed as either safe or problematic. Many cities have designated bike lanes and paths just for those that do commute. Older and established roads in certain areas such as in Philadelphia, Boston and NYC can prevent the full safety of a bicycle rider commuting to work on main roads. They are working on this in many urban areas.

I personally could not bike to work from my location, as the roads just suck for sharing. I drive away from Philadelphia, rather than into the city. If I was to work in the city, it would be cake for me to ride my bike into town.

The problem with the roads in many areas of the U.S., with all the land development in the past two decades, is that the roads had never been modified as far as enlarging and adding lanes to accommodate the onslaught of the drivers today. Single lane roads are now major cut-through for commuting and yet when they made these roads, they didn't think that hundreds of new home developments would one day be built next to them.

[EDIT] for the most part, bicycling into Philly sucks, but I have a short cut that takes me through Fairmont Park in Philly so that I never use major or side roads and have trails/dedicated bike paths. Most people in my city do not have this luxury when it comes to bike riding. It takes me 30 - 40 minutes to get to the Art Museum (the one Rocky ran up the steps) in center city on my bicycle from the burbs I live in.

[Galleleo]

Don't you get mileage paid for by work? In the Netherlands, once you land a decent to good job, a lot of times you can have it put in your contract that the miles (km) you drive for work, you get a certain amount of money per km here. Not all jobs though.

[Singularity]

In a decent to good job you get paid so much above mimimum wage it wouldn't matter in the discussion gal =) Flipping burgers isn't likely to have such benefits on the contract anyway.

[Galleleo]

But they started talking about more general commuters and them moving to the city.

[phata$$]

I just filled up my tank for $4.50 a gallon today.

[Cops]

On the flip side of rising housing costs we see that the equity value of homes dropping like a lead weight that had not been seen here in the States since 1946.

Property values will be interesting to watch in the next few years, as many may just move to rent/lease houses, condo's and apt.'s until there is some stabalization, this will also allow one to avoid being forced to pay the property and school taxes that come with ownership.


Equity will play a big role in how this moves, with equity losses making ones home value less than the current mortgage they are paying this is creating quite a bit of problems on various economic levels.

Will you be better of as a buyer or seller? Rent or Own?

As a Canadian it's definitely better to be out buying, especially in decent cities across America. Even vacation deals to Orlando and Las Vegas are becoming more attractive to Canadians. Disney Time Shares are probably one of the most solid time shares I've seen, and even they've lowered costs and ability to purchase a point contract. I think from our stand point it's time to go out and buy because come next year I could see things getting back to normal.

I'd suggest Canadians purchase a mutual fund as well as invest some money into American Dollars. I'm not sure this staying on par business will last forever, and in my mind the American population out numbers Canada 20 to 1, so you can clearly out produce us. Even if our dollar stays on par you won't lose any money, and let's be serious the Canadian Dollar will never be worth more than 5 cents over par.

I'd be weary of what I bought and where though. I think certain places are bound to get back on their feet, but it'd be a waste of time to invest in a house in an area that has tons of problems. I think Florida's suburbs are decent, it's a popular choice for retirement so they will definitely pull themselves back together. Hopefully people can hang on to their homes and get a decent return for them in the future otherwise they stand to lose a lot of money. I think it depends on who you are and where you live, but for some who've saved and waited for a period of time to buy their first house, now could have not come at a better time.

[soup]

Thank you for your valuable input !

no problem, HOMBRE