Hey Asian guys, got a question.

[Epinephrine]

Sounds like a negative outlook on the asian man's place in North America. Life isn't fair, skinny asian geeks can't get hot white girls (not that I see skinny white geeks getting hot white girls either), tough luck. I don't think being fit is abaonding your culture or way of life, sticking to one way of life and eating habit is partly how stereotypes come about in the first place. In order to break the bad stigma and stereotypes associated with asian males, changes must occur. You don't have to be skinny and well-mannered/quiet to stay strong in your cultural identity, it's ok to work out just like it's ok to not only do Kung-Fu in movies. I don't see how you can want change to occur but frown on asian guys working out. Some skinny teenagers complain about their acne, small frames or some other thing that might prevent them from getting girls- some teenagers decide to do something about it. Just like somene quoted before, you just have to flow with it, work on any negative faults you might have. Not just to get girls but to improve yourself as a whole. If you don't think working out will be an improvement to you, fine. I just disagree that working out is a deviation from your culture and background.

Yes I mean asians should really go and get extra growth hormone shots when growing up so that they can be taller, and then take roids non-stop so that they can bulk up like white guys bulk up. You wanted to know the truth, and now that you do, you just deride me for telling it? It's not like asians go around complaining about this to everyone they see, you wanted to know so you were told. Most of us have already accepted the reality of the situation.

[Troll King]

I think it's just a matter of time. Asian cultural growth in North America has been stunted for the longest time and only recently is it starting to enter the mainstream. Aesthetics is a part of that but takes longer to integrate. Like Epi said, it's a generational issue. Technically, I am a third generation Asian-Canadian, as my grandfather came to Canada after WWI. But because of immigration laws enacted soon after, my father didn't come over until after my grandfather died, my father's experience was like that of a first generation Canadian. That makes me part of the first generation of my family to be born in Canada. What we need in the mainstream are Asians of my general age bracket, but most of them are like me, and they too are the first generation born in North America. It is difficult for the first generation of any group to have a lasting affect on mainstream culture. I'd look to Hispanic culture as an example. Only recently, I would say, has Hispanic culture started to hit its stride (it might not be at the peak yet, but it should come soon) in the mainstream consciousness, but early generations hadn't made the same impact, and the current group continues to grow. From a timeline perspective, Asians are far from being at there, and it will take a couple of generations. It might actually be the next generation, because things are moving faster and faster now than ever before. We aren't there yet, but our children might be.

[Epinephrine]

thats a pretty decent point. ive found that while looks are important when it comes to getting sorority girls, i have friends with many different looks and body-types that have gotten very attractive girlfriends. a lot of girls seem to look for confidence and sense of humor over a guy that works out all the time thats a total douchebag. i find it hard to believe that most girls would choose a boring, nerdy white guy who worked out a lot over a skinny asian guy who found a style that worked for him, and was outgoing, confident, and funny. could it be that its not the physical attributes thats keeping asians from dating white girls, but rather the societal pressure to be quiet, remain in the background, and study?

Yes, which is why to be more attractive, asians guys need to abandon that to be what white girls want which was my point. They need to start acting like white people in other words, but it's kind of hard to do when you have cultural and familial pressures NOT to do that, and also hard to do when stereotypes work against you before you could even have a chance. Add onto the fact that a lot of us are first or second generation immigrants, we've already lived very different lives and our likes and dislikes have been shaped to be very different.

[Blanke]

Arg please don't comment on evolutionary biology if you don't really know how it works. Fitness isn't defined by how 'athletically fit' you are. It's a measure of fecundity, basically how many kids you have is how 'fit' you are. If fat people had more kids than thin people, then evoluntionarily, being fat would have a higher fecundity, and thus in evolution those people would be more 'fit'.


0As for asians being athletic. Atheletic asians look different from atheletic white people. White people who never work out look different from asians who never work out. White people who DO work out, look different as well. Besides, why should asians have to work out just to get white girls when white guys who don't do much working out at all get white girls AND asian girls much easier?

Obviously if you're tall, very good looking and very atheletic girls will like you. It's not about that. It's about the average asian not fitting what the physical description of what the average white girl is looking for. It's about the average asian girl fitting the physical description of what many white guys would look for. And then it's about the added detremental effects of stereotypes and culture which work against asians living in North America.

And no, I really don't think most asians really do care about having the perfectly chissled and 'athletic' body. It's a western conception of beauty which began with the Greeks and those Greek statues, it doesn't exist at all in the history and culture of Southeast Asia.

You are making many assumptions and digressions on and from my post, respectively. I merely quoted Darwin--or whoever coined it--yet you assume my knowledge on evolution and biology are false. If you're trying to annoy me, you're doing a good job; you don't resolve anything by irritating the other person.

Both your argument and mine on the number of white male-asian female(wmaf) and asian male-white female(amwf) are extremely limited since neither of us know the actual numbers. I was out last night and I saw many more amwf couples than the other. It defers region to region and greatly depends on the demographics of city in which you live.

No, I don't think many asians think about having the perfect body because the majority of the population doesn't worry about it either. You said earlier that working out meant that you gave up your heritage. I work out because I used to be fat. Can you possibly comprehend what it means to be overweight through a good part of you early childhood and teenage years? Fitness is a very international concept. You say that it's very western, but maybe you're only thinking about the "perfect body" being very western. I will agree partially to this, but Americans are usually noted by other countries for being fat and arrogant. If you visit the country of your ancestry, I'm sure you will notice that people are working out and changing. Everyone always sees the fat kid, but they usually don't exist because of the life they live. They walk or ride their bikes everywhere, and they work as soon as they get home.

Okay, I digress, and now that I think of it more and more, it is a more western concept. So what if it is? Shouldn't we work out then? I hate to make a metaphor out of a stereotype, but if the competition at school is tough, you work harder, then why don't you try to change physically to suit the competition?

Yeah, it's been too long since i've started this post and don't remember where i'm going to with this, but Epine, you never like to be wrong, do you? Describe yourself for me for the sake of understanding your perspective.

On another note, did you all know that it might actually be a gene for trying to become obese? It dates back to the ice age where humans had to protect themselves against the cold and lack of food at times. So obesity isn't something that just happened because of a surplus of food, it may be genetic.

Soemoen please redirect this argument and i'll comment later.

[DoTheFandango]

I thought this thread was one giant, "Do they have small penises?" thread.

But unfortunately, it's worse.

[Blanke]

Who wants to put dothefandango into his place: shithole, america?

[Facetious]

Yes, which is why to be more attractive, asians guys need to abandon that to be what white girls want which was my point. They need to start acting like white people in other words, but it's kind of hard to do when you have cultural and familial pressures NOT to do that, and also hard to do when stereotypes work against you before you could even have a chance. Add onto the fact that a lot of us are first or second generation immigrants, we've already lived very different lives and our likes and dislikes have been shaped to be very different.

my point was that a lot of the posts in this thread seem to say "we are asian, theres nothing we can do about the fact that we cant get girls" and i just dont think thats true. i feel that the body-image stuff is a copout, and i think its somewhat ridiculous to focus on the things that people cant change. people that are in wheelchairs can get attractive girlfriends, really really ugly people can get attractive girlfriends. most people have some sort of physical handicap, looks-wise, and i dont really see how being short and skinny is such a hard handicap to overcome.

ALL guys who are quiet and reserved have a hard time initially attracting girls, not just asians who happen to be quiet and reserved. my point wasnt that anyone would need to completely change the way they act 100% of the time, but when it comes to going out there and meeting people, it really behooves a dude to be confident. if you arent willing to act confident to break the ice, thats a decision youre making, not something youre stuck with.

[Blanke]

my point was that a lot of the posts in this thread seem to say "we are asian, theres nothing we can do about the fact that we cant get girls" and i just dont think thats true. i feel that the body-image stuff is a copout, and i think its somewhat ridiculous to focus on the things that people cant change. people that are in wheelchairs can get attractive girlfriends, really really ugly people can get attractive girlfriends. most people have some sort of physical handicap, looks-wise, and i dont really see how being short and skinny is such a hard handicap to overcome.

ALL guys who are quiet and reserved have a hard time initially attracting girls, not just asians who happen to be quiet and reserved. my point wasnt that anyone would need to completely change the way they act 100% of the time, but when it comes to going out there and meeting people, it really behooves a dude to be confident. if you arent willing to act confident to break the ice, thats a decision youre making, not something youre stuck with.

Actually, I think I have to agree with you. For the most part, physical attractivity extends to a certain degree, but confidence will play the biggest influence. I've seen many a not-so-attractive guy with an attractive girl.

I think this thread is through, everyone's tired.

[Subjugation]

Arg please don't comment on evolutionary biology if you don't really know how it works. Fitness isn't defined by how 'athletically fit' you are. It's a measure of fecundity, basically how many kids you have is how 'fit' you are. If fat people had more kids than thin people, then evoluntionarily, being fat would have a higher fecundity, and thus in evolution those people would be more 'fit'.

To add to that, it should be noted that the reason why physical fitness in humans doesn't really equate to fitness of other animal species is because humans have kind of "opted out" of this requirement of natural selection. In Darwinist evolution, excess reproduction (fecundity) is required, but another key point is this excess reproduction leads to a competition for resources, and this usually means the less physically dominant ones tend to starve or get killed off by predators. However, since humans create their own resouces, this rule doesn't really apply.

As far as "survivial of the fittest", yea, I think you're right. That's not Darwin's, it's was Herbert Spencer---and he was talking about social evolution, instead of the traditional biological evolution. Anyway, that's neither here, nor there.

The points LB and Epi bring up are interesting, because they illustrate the conflicts that come up when two radically different cultures try and blend. In America, the perception of being fat or physically fit apparently means something totally different than in Asian culture. In American culture, being tall, strong, and thin implies good health, genetic superiority, sexual prowess, and higher social status than people who are fat, short, and don't exercise. (Of course, other factors come into play, like money, intelligence, etc...but I think it's safe to say money and intelligence are important to both cultures.)

And according to what Epi says, In Asian culture, those same signs of genetic superiority, longevity, sexual prowess, and high social status come from entirely different places (feel free to fill us in on what those are, Azn friends. I'm interested in learning).

So, I guess I have to agree with both of you guys that in order to have mainstream Hollywood embrace the Asian male superhero, it would require a morphologic shift of traditional Asian cultural philosophy. In other words, there would have to be more tall, handsome Asian male actors seeking mainstream roles---which according to Epi, would be a diminishment of Asian culture.

[Epinephrine]

To add to that, it should be noted that the reason why physical fitness in humans doesn't really equate to fitness of other animal species is because humans have kind of "opted out" of this requirement of natural selection. In Darwinist evolution, excess reproduction (fecundity) is required, but another key point is this excess reproduction leads to a competition for resources, and this usually means the less physically dominant ones tend to starve or get killed off by predators. However, since humans create their own resouces, this rule doesn't really apply.

As far as "survivial of the fittest", yea, I think you're right. That's not Darwin's, it's was Herbert Spencer---and he was talking about social evolution, instead of the traditional biological evolution. Anyway, that's neither here, nor there.

The points LB and Epi bring up are interesting, because they illustrate the conflicts that come up when two radically different cultures try and blend. In America, the perception of being fat or physically fit apparently means something totally different than in Asian culture. In American culture, being tall, strong, and thin implies good health, genetic superiority, sexual prowess, and higher social status than people who are fat, short, and don't exercise. (Of course, other factors come into play, like money, intelligence, etc...but I think it's safe to say money and intelligence are important to both cultures.)

And according to what Epi says, In Asian culture, those same signs of genetic superiority, longevity, sexual prowess, and high social status come from entirely different places (feel free to fill us in on what those are, Azn friends. I'm interested in learning).

So, I guess I have to agree with both of you guys that in order to have mainstream Hollywood embrace the Asian male superhero, it would require a morphologic shift of traditional Asian cultural philosophy. In other words, there would have to be more tall, handsome Asian male actors seeking mainstream roles---which according to Epi, would be a diminishment of Asian culture.

You guys are all putting words into my mouth.

Unlike what Blanke thinks, I never said that working out means you're not asian anymore. Unlike what you think, I never said that having more asians in Hollywood would be diminishing asian culture or something like that.

What I did say was best illustrated by what I said to Facetous a few posts above and it is that a lot of us first and second generation immigrants have grown up with very different lives than people in North America. Without getting too specific, it is suffice to say that we were raised very differently, taught a very different set of ways to behave. Unfortunately because these ways to behave combined with our average physical attributes make us into people who aren't what is generally considered 'very attractive' to white females in North America.

There are very few fat people in asia, because we asians have higher metabolisms and also eat different diets. Actually there's a lot less fat people outside of North America period. So much so that a great majority of people outside of North America don't NEED to work out to be thin because they simply aren't fat. Obsessively working out is a very American thing and has only developed over the past 40 years or so with the whole media portrayal of the 'ideal' male. Simply put, body type isn't as important in asia because most people have the same body type. It's things like having a good looking face, being 'cool' (which is different from being cool in North America in many ways as the cultural things you need to know and do are just different), and being successful are important.

Look at hollywood. All the most famous leading men also have great well-toned bodies regardless of age. Look at asia. With the exception of the kung-fu guys, the most famous leading men DON'T have great chissled abs and well toned bodies. They are thin yes, but then virtually everyone is thin there anyway. Simply put, having the great 'workout' body simply is not important.

There are also a lot of people who keep saying 'stop whining anyone can get anyone if they try hard enough'. Fair enough, there are always exceptions to the rule. Anyone can also get rich if they tried enough, so why aren't all of you billionaires? Anyone can pass high school easily, so why do kids in SS whine non-stop about failing all their courses all the time? The fact is, it's a very American thing to believe the good old mantra of 'believe in yourself and you can achieve anything'. It's not hard to see why, when it's basically the take-home message of every cartoon out there.

But that's also another cultural difference. Asians living here, who are immigrants realize that such fantasies are simply not true. A lot of us realize that the only way to get ahead in this world is to try our hardest, so you see a lot of us trying harder in school to get good jobs. I wouldn't have had to try nearly as hard in school if I was still back in the old country, because family connections would have gotten me great jobs easily, much like it is easy for people who are FROM HERE to do well. Now because other things in real life aren't as easy, asians realize that the same applies to getting girls.

So yes, if asians really want an equal shot (ignoring stereotypes and racism which always hamper everyone) in North America, they have no choice to be 'white', something that is easier said than done for many who weren't born here or who grew up in very different environments.

Simply put, on average the average asian male has less of a chance of getting a white girl than an average white guy has of getting an asian girl. That is why asians don't like it when they see a white guy with an asian girl because that was just another girl that we can't get. But it's not like it makes us depressed or something, it's just a 'damn that guy' kind of feeling. It's the same thing as seeing a hot girl become a lesbian because you know that's 1 more girl you can't get, whether you could actually get her or not if you she were straight.


P.S. This thread isn't about me and my own life, I'm talking about greater social trends here rather than whining about my own life.

P.P.S. I am not saying 'it's not fair, asians need to work out like everyone else to get girls'. I am saying, given two people who were considered to be relatively the same in attractiveness in Asia and America, then take the asian and put him in America, he'd have more trouble getting white girls than the white guy. Make them both work out, the Asian guy would still have more trouble in general. That's what I'm saying. Obviously the superhandsome buff asian with $99999999999 will fare better than an ugly fat white trash white guy.

P.P.P.S. Anyway I've been repeating myself too much and I believe LB's question has been answered, so I'm done in this thread.

[RATTY...]

Last from me too.

You really have a pessimistic view towards asians Epi. It sounds like its about yourself, not asians.

And you're really obsessed about this working out thing. It doesn't matter how good you look, if you're an idiot.
Having a nice personality is already half the way to get a girl.

We asians aren't doomed, like you think. The only bad thing with us is that we may be a little short and thin. It's really easy to increase your muscles mass if you go for it.
But the reason some of us may be short is because of the temperature or food in asia.
Cause the asians who are born in Norway is actually taller than average asians (atleast its what I see).

Work out, food, rest. Only 3 things you need to think of to gain muscles.
Be more open minded, funny, girls love that, try, and you'll get lots.

Dothefadango, I'm tired of seeing stupid comments from you.

If you ever see someone who looks like me, you better run for your fucking life, cause I'm gonna break your fucking neck without hesitating.

[Blanke]

Last from me too.

You really have a pessimistic view towards asians Epi. It sounds like its about yourself, not asians.

And you're really obsessed about this working out thing. It doesn't matter how good you look, if you're an idiot.
Having a nice personality is already half the way to get a girl.

We asians aren't doomed, like you think. The only bad thing with us is that we may be a little short and thin. It's really easy to increase your muscles mass if you go for it.
But the reason some of us may be short is because of the temperature or food in asia.
Cause the asians who are born in Norway is actually taller than average asians (atleast its what I see).

Work out, food, rest. Only 3 things you need to think of to gain muscles.
Be more open minded, funny, girls love that, try, and you'll get lots.

Dothefadango, I'm tired of seeing stupid comments from you.

If you ever see someone who looks like me, you better run for your fucking life, cause I'm gonna break your fucking neck without hesitating.

Thank you.
Thank you especially for that last comment, even if it's a tad violent.

[Evasive]

If you ever see someone who looks like me, you better run for your fucking life, cause I'm gonna break your fucking neck without hesitating.

oh shit panda avatar is gonna get me

[DoTheFandango]

BIG BAD SCARY NORWEIGAN!f

[Subjugation]

Don't worry, DTF...you're not Pakistani.