Religion Question ( oh no not again )

[Ephemeral]

Many of the people around me believe that if you are not 'saved' you will go to hell, kind of a Baptist 'chosen people' way of thinking. But whether it's being 'saved' or 'baptized', I simply don't believe that way of thinking.
This is mostly because there are so many people who simply have lived there lives in times or cultures that knew nothing of Christianity. My God is fair, and it would be very unfair to punish people who simply happened to have lived before Christ arrived or just happened to be born in the 'wrong' culture. (My Baptist friends tell me that everyone gets one final chance to accept Jesus right after dying. But why bother being saved now when everyone gets this final chance?)

I believe there is a God, but I don't believe that to trully believe you must sit with other believers one day a week for two hours. If God is God then I'm sure He will be ok if I chose to believe in him in my own way and live my life as a good person.

And why should we take advice on sex from the pope? If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't!

I do believe that we should respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

I think that God knows all, He sees into people's heart and minds and passes judgment based upon that, not some particular human-based organized religion/book/beliefs. Why do people put so much stock into religions and books that have the hand of man all over them? Do they really think that if God spoke to us today He would say that the Bible or Koran is worded exactly as He would do it? Would He really say, 'No revisions needed, these are perfect"? How can humans be so imperfect yet somehow we nailed these books so perfectly that we should all take them literally?

[Liquid Blue]

what other ppls anwsers aren't good enough for you -_-

No it's just that I've seen them talk a great deal about, and I have a great deal of respect in regards to their opinions on religion. I might not always agree with some things 1ight says, but I still respect his stance as much as I do spider/disliked.

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Thanks for all the replies. I don't find the idea of getting baptized just to get out of hell very pleasing, and I think that if I went to get baptized right now, that's the only reason I would be doing it for. I know it's about washing away your sins and accepting Jesus Christ but after reading that part in DI, I would just feel like i'm pressuring myself to do it to avoid hell, not to accept Jesus. After all, I've already accepted him in my life, I live a good life and I don't see how some water on my head is going to make everything official.

I agree with you Eph/Disliked, I don't think that God would make you sit in purgatory/limbo for eternity just because you didn't get baptized, even if you were the nicest person in the world. That and the whole " if you were alive before christianity then you live in limbo as well" , doesn't fit my idea of what God is. Why turn away honestly good people just because they lived before christianity was popular? Doesn't make sense to me.

[geekbot]

Catholics may or may not believe you have to be baptized to be saved.

Protestants believe that you are saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. No acts, no deeds, nothing we do is needed. Not going to church, not reading the Bible, not getting baptized. Eph 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Baptism is a command (as in God wants you to do it) but not required for salvation. If you are thinking about it, you should find out why and what baptism symbolizes before you "dive in".

People before the time of Christ (everyone in the old testament- Moses, David, prophets, kings) were saved by faith in a coming messiah, who turned out to be Jesus, if you believe the Christian Bible.

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I also believe in a fair God but have a different understanding of the state of human nature. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of God's standard Romans 3:9-19. It also says that the wages of sin is death (or eternal separation from God) Romans 6:22-23.

In other words, according to the Bible, all humans have fallen of the perfection required by God. The fair thing would be for everyone to perish eternally. It makes more sense to me judging by the paragraph above and observing the world that the world deserves separation from God in hell, not heaven. In our "society of victims" where everyone thinks they deserve something, we too often take gifts of grace for granted.

But by love and grace a messiah savior has been provided that some would be saved. Jesus came for the express purpose of saving Christians from what they deserve. In my mind, a God that has the love and power to provide a way to heaven like this certainly has the ability to save anyone he wants (including those who lived before Jesus, those in remote jungle areas, babies who tragically die young) if he chooses to do so. And I'm guessing in some cases he does choose that.

Is it "fair" that not everyone receives the grace of salvation? Certainly not. Those have been saved have been treated most unfairly and have been given what they do not deserve.

[Mr. Peanuts]

This thread kinda reminds me of the Bible quote: "It's easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven." (Might not be entirely accurate but you get the point.)

What do you guys think of this? If a poor man gives up what he can to charity, it makes him a better man than a rich man giving lots of money which doesn't mean as much as it does to him, as it does to the poor man? But more money will provide more for those less fortunate. I guess the moral is sacrifice and whatever you do, don't get rich, heh.

I've been pondering about this a lot recently and I would write more but I gotta get off the damn computer.

[ZeUs!!]

If God's everywhere then you don't need to go to a church to get baptised, just go for a swim

[Liquid Blue]

This thread kinda reminds me of the Bible quote: "It's easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven." (Might not be entirely accurate but you get the point.)

What do you guys think of this? If a poor man gives up what he can to charity, it makes him a better man than a rich man giving lots of money which doesn't mean as much as it does to him, as it does to the poor man? But more money will provide more for those less fortunate. I guess the moral is sacrifice and whatever you do, don't get rich, heh.

I've been pondering about this a lot recently and I would write more but I gotta get off the damn computer.

Eh, it's not so much degrees of charity to me from looking at that quote, but the responsibilites, situations and actions that come about from having a large amount of money. Rich people have a much bigger sway on some lives than poor people, and in other ways besides how much they can donate. A rich guy could decide to buy out a rec center and turn it into a parking lot, thus drastically reducing the chances and places for children in that area to find somewhere safe to play/study/whatever. A rich guy could buy all the tickets on an airplane, thereby making Mr. Jones miss his flight and subsequently miss his daughters graduation. That sort of thing.

[Ephemeral]

Well, According to my Baptist friends, Mother Theresa did not make it to heaven. I find this ludicrous. How can someone who spent their life helping others be burning in hell? But then again, some of my Baptist friends call Catholicism a ‘cult’.

[Superted]

I've been pondering about this a lot recently and I would write more but I gotta get off the damn computer.

If a rich man gives to charity and is stil rich afterwards, he hasn't done much, he's just given away what he didn't need. If a poor man gives to charity, he has given everything he possibly could and more to help others without thinking of himself, that is why the poor man has a 'better chance'.

As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. "I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

[Theif of Time]

Theres baptism's of blood, AKA Martyrs.

Theres also baptisms of fire, AKA brothers in arms

[1ight]

Hmm..
Do read.. :>

Mark. 1:4
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. -NKJV

This messenger was John the Baptist. He lived in the wilderness and was preaching that people should be baptized to show that they had turned from their sins and turned to God to be forgiven. -NLT

1:8 "... I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Romans 6:1-11

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. -NKJV

What can I say? I don't know what to say, I'm quite tired, soon the clock will turn 3:00am.

Romans 6:1-> is about the babtizment.

About hell and the judgment..

REVELATIONS 20:10-15
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where* the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before *God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second *death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.



I'm really sorry, but my thoughts just doesn't pop-out, I can't explain at moment.. I'm so tired.. I hope the Word of God is able to enlighten you with its knowledge.

Do have patience with me.. :|

My mum and dad never babtized me when I was child/baby, never. Which was a good thing, because they thought that it would be my thing to choose how to live etc. I got babtized 08-25-2002. For me, it was a new begining of life, to really take the step to follow Jesus, so basically "kill" your old person. As it says in the romans..

I might come back later and explain something perhaps.. when I'm more re-freashed.. and not dead tired. ok.. take care. God bless you and may His face shine upon you!

edit: my post just looks all messy.. -_- zz

[Squeezer]

If God's everywhere then you don't need to go to a church to get baptised, just go for a swim

It's more about the ceremony than the actual water you douche.

(douche===water joke)

[Ilya]

i have video evidence that mother teresa, did, in fact, go to heaven

[Ilya]

why the fuck did i just make that post?

like seriously

[DoTheFandango]

Except isn't a douche like soapy vinegar?

Also: If the pope bless an ocean, and said it was ok to drink, then do you think people would willingly drink it?

[Mr. Peanuts]

As long as it isn't the dead sea.

Thanks for the answers LB and Dis, I guess its all about interpretation which unfortunately varies from person to person.