Am I geeky for wanting this?

[Eric is God]

Well to each their own

[Saturn V]

Actually what I thought was best about TNG was the exact fact that there were no really ongoing storylines. Aside from the general friendships between the characters, the show was about bigger ideals and bigger things. A lot of the episodes touched on philosophy and important moral issues of the day.

Meanwhile DS9 was just a soap opera in space with some TNG plotlines recycled. The large battles didn't even really start until after Roddenbery died, and I think it's because while he was alive he would never let Star Trek turn into a show about having huge battles, because that's not what Star Trek is about. If I wanted to see huge battles, I would watch Star Wars. Star Trek is something more than mindless battles.

Plenty of episodes in DS9 deal with philosophy and moral issues. Also religion, equal rights, and racism.

And the battles really aren't *that* big in DS9, there are just more of them (it is war, after all). And if you think DS9 is all mindless battles, then you need to re-watch it. I'd say DS9 deals with more of the effect of war on people than anything (such as eager Jake Sisko ready to taste the front lines for a good story, only to become completely shocked and horrified by what he sees, or that damned infamous "casuality list" including MIA, KIA, WIA, or the Bajoran people recovering after the Cardassian occupation).

Picard is a good captain, but the he seems too perfect and not very realistic. What I love about Sisko is that he is the most human: "I lied... I cheated... I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all: I think I can live with it, and if I had to do it all over again, I would."

But like Eric said, to each their own. But I've just recently been able to admit DS9 was my favorite--like in the last few months. I felt like I was betraying my childhood by doing it, but DS9 is just superior.

:grin:

[Bioture]

I'd pay to get the entire 7 seasons of the next generation... that was by far my favorite star trek. Voyager after that, original startrek after that, star trek enterprise after that (i've only seen 1 episode), and finally ds9 which was absolute trash.

[Troll King]

What I love about Sisqo is that he is the most human: "I lied... I cheated... I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all: I recorded that damn Thong Song."
:grin:

I think Epi's stance about Star Trek never being about the battles was right to a point. The more prevalent theme of the earlier shows had always been the potential for a war with the other groups, but not actual war itself. This was probably a reflection of the cold war era. Remember, Roddenberry died just months before the dissolution of the USSR; the Klingons in the original series and the Romulans in TNG reflected the Soviets in many ways. DS9 however was more a reflection of WWII, or the years following it with the theme of racial and religious persecution. DS9 was always about tension and conflict and one could argue that war was an inevitable plot point even from the beginning.

And just to point something out for Epi: Roddenberry died in 1991; DS9 didn't hit the air until 1993.

[Subjugation]

I like this thread, therefore, I am a nerd.

Actually, one of the reasons I didn't really like DS9 is because Sisko (sp?) was too "human". I couldn't believe that such a high-ranking person could be that emotional, yet be so successful in Starfleet. He was such an over-actor that I could never really like him as a character. I really wanted to like the show, though.

I liked Quark's character, however. In TNG, I could never really understand how the Ferengi's could have been so successful as a culture. It's like the writers made the so unlikable, one had to suspend their disbelief. Whereas, Quark had some redeeming qualities, and was pretty smart. It would have been better if they didn't stereotype all the Ferengi's in TNG. Hell---even the Borg had Hue, then that group of underground rebel Borg.

[Sarien]

Almost everyone I know who likes Star Trek in real life agrees that TNG was the pinnicle of Star Trek (with the other series basically recycling a lot of plot ideas).

Meanwhile DS9 was just a soap opera in space with some TNG plotlines recycled.

Plenty of episodes in DS9 deal with philosophy and moral issues. Also religion, equal rights, and racism.

Actually, one of the reasons I didn't really like DS9 is because Sisko (sp?) was too "human". I couldn't believe that such a high-ranking person could be that emotional,

To all the above: DS9 Episode: The Pale Moonlight
DS9 was absolutely the most well written and thoughtful of the series. Why? Because the other shows didn't have to worry nearly the same amount about continuity. It was always zip here in this ship, zip there in that one, oh no, they're going back in time again! I'll stand the Pale Moonlight for writing and acting episode to episode against any from Next Gen, or those horrors Voyager or Enterprise.

In TNG, I could never really understand how the Ferengi's could have been so successful as a culture.

Are you unable to think of anyone you don't like or agree with that also happens to be fabulously wealthy? Because I can.

[Troll King]

On an individual basis perhaps, but not with it as the foundation of their entire culture. When the Ferengi were first introduced they weren't as much of a caricature as they became later in the canon.

[Sarien]

In the very first episode they were introduced one takes a communicator pin, bites it and says "Tastes like Gold".

[Saturn V]

To all the above: DS9 Episode: The Pale Moonlight

The Sisko quote I posted above is from "The Pale Moonlight." It's also the only episode I refuse to delete from my DVR.

[Eric is God]

To all the above: DS9 Episode: The Pale Moonlight

Remind me which episode this one was? One of my personal favorites is the episode where Sisko and Garrek (spelling?) get together to bring the Romulans into the war on Federation's side. The issues of morality and "the greater good" were done extremely well as was the acting.

[Saturn V]

Remind me which episode this one was? One of my personal favorites is the episode where Sisko and Garrek (spelling?) get together to bring the Romulans into the war on Federation's side. The issues of morality and "the greater good" were done extremely well as was the acting.

That's the one. And Garak is completely badass, too.

[Troll King]

In the very first episode they were introduced one takes a communicator pin, bites it and says "Tastes like Gold".

And that still doesn't compare to the ear-rubbing comic relief they became. I suppose they were going for a Merchant of Venice approach to them. They were initially conceived to be the new threat to the Federation, since the Klingons were now "on-side". Paramount didn't like the fan reaction to them and asked the producers to turn them into a comic relief role. They were a far more menacing race in the first few episodes than at any time since.

[Sarien]

Sisko Quote

Yeah, the inclusion of your quote as you could tell, wasn't to refute you, was to back you up. We've talked about this before and if you remember, we were in pretty much complete agreement.


I never saw the Ferengi as comic relief as a culture. Individual characters could be funny or weird or not, but Nog joining the federation in DS9 wasn't really that funny. In the first few episodes yes they had a sense of being more threatening, mostly because of those freaky whips. However TNG in general was pretty much really crappy for the first two seasons. But later on, look at the episode with the Stargazer, with the father looking to take revenge on Picard. That really isn't comic relief either. The culture is greedy and based around financial domination, because they're cowards and weak as a species. I never recalled them as being "the new threat" to the Federation, as that spot was filled Comfortably by the Romulans, and things unknown (Such as the dude that pits the away team against the ferengi in their first episode).

[Saturn V]

ear-rubbing

<--- oo-mox.

I also refer to Q-tips as oo-mox.

[Troll King]

Yeah, the inclusion of your quote as you could tell, wasn't to refute you, was to back you up. We've talked about this before and if you remember, we were in pretty much complete agreement.


I never saw the Ferengi as comic relief as a culture. Individual characters could be funny or weird or not, but Nog joining the federation in DS9 wasn't really that funny. In the first few episodes yes they had a sense of being more threatening, mostly because of those freaky whips. However TNG in general was pretty much really crappy for the first two seasons. But later on, look at the episode with the Stargazer, with the father looking to take revenge on Picard. That really isn't comic relief either. The culture is greedy and based around financial domination, because they're cowards and weak as a species. I never recalled them as being "the new threat" to the Federation, as that spot was filled Comfortably by the Romulans, and things unknown (Such as the dude that pits the away team against the ferengi in their first episode).

That Stargazer episode was also in the first season, so I consider that an early "dark" Ferengi episode. You don't recall them being "the new threat" because they were gimped after season one before they could step into that role. They were never as serious a threat since. They were created to be the major new enemies, a role later filled by the Borg and Cardassians. Instead of being the dreaded orcs they wound up being meddlesome hobbitses. As for the example of Nog, sure, you can take one example, but he doesn't represent how the entire race was represented. I could more than readily cancel that argument by citing Rom as an example. I'll admit, DS9 fleshed the Ferengi characters out more, but remember again, DS9 debuted in 1993, some 6 years after they were first introduced. That's a long time for characters to develop a second dimension.