Faith

[Twerp]

science is starting to turn inward via biotechnology which will do such things as extend lifespan...

Oh good, I get to hurt from old age longer than my ancestors. Yay science!!!

and alter state of consciousness

It's temporary. "An altered state of consciousness can come about accidentally through fever, sleep deprivation, starvation, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), or a traumatic accident." I really want that to happen to me.

"It is sometimes attained through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, or hallucinogenic plants and chemicals such as LSD, 2C-I, peyote, marijuana, mescaline, psilocybin mushrooms, and datura (Jimson weed)." That sounds like you are taking drugs to make your mind feel better, which makes it sound like you are taking anti-depressant medicine.

meaning science will save you by emulating heaven on earth.

Science can emulate heaven all it's life, but it will never reach it. In heaven, I doubt you don't have to work 12 hours a day to support a family. In heaven, I doubt you face the harshness of others.

[Lucon]

It's not like we really need to be saved from death that much anyway. It can't be that bad. I mean, worst case scenario, you rot in the ground, but you don't care because you're dead. Best case scenario, you go to heaven.

[Theif of Time]

It's different when you're right.

Correction:

It's different when you think you're right.

Also Off-topic:
As for salvation. I don't want salvation, from whereever it comes.
If I deserve salvation, it is my belief that I will get it.
If I don't deserve it, I'm not getting it. Makes a lot of sense to me...

If I converted, went to church, all that, it would feel like a farce for me, especially if I were doing it for salvation.
nevetheless, religion interests me, the philosophy and psychology that goes along with it. So I'm not going to go distancing myself from it.

[Tone]

Science can emulate heaven all it's life, but it will never reach it. In heaven, I doubt you don't have to work 12 hours a day to support a family. In heaven, I doubt you face the harshness of others.

in that hypothetical state, work becomes intense pleasure and there is no harshness of others because they are in a state where they have zero desire to be how people are today. they get pleasure from their new state and how they communicate and carry their harsh-free selves

[DoTheFandango]

Will everyone stop?

Athiests don't know how we'll end up, Theists don't know how we'll end up.

This non-sensical arguement never gets us ANYWHERE. Why do people INSIST on bringing it up.

Shut the fuck up.

I repeat:
SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[T3l Ca7]

When I recited "faith" I did not only mean "religion". By faith, I meant that state of mind that makes you blindly believing/obeying certain things.

In history there are countless people who were betrayed after staying faithful to their kings. Being faithful is still praised today being that your attitude towards your workplace, your partner to even the shopping place you frequent (aka being a loyal customer).

My question is that: being faithful is always regarded a virtue, but is there any drawbacks for being "too blind"?

[Superted]

This non-sensical arguement never gets us ANYWHERE. Why do people INSIST on bringing it up.

Because believe it or not, people like to talk to each other and debate with one another.

[Pressure Drop]

When I recited "faith" I did not only mean "religion". By faith, I meant that state of mind that makes you blindly believing/obeying certain things.

In history there are countless people who were betrayed after staying faithful to their kings. Being faithful is still praised today being that your attitude towards your workplace, your partner to even the shopping place you frequent (aka being a loyal customer).

My question is that: being faithful is always regarded a virtue, but is there any drawbacks for being "too blind"?

off course there are drawbacks

look at war, alot could be down to having to much faith in your comanding officer. General Mac Arthur wanted to drop somehting like 30 nuclear bombs in the Korean war but the Presisdent refused and later removed him. Perhaps if he had "faith" in the General leading his men then there would have been a Nuclear holocuast in Korea.

[Facetious]

And there certainly aren't any weak minded Christians who are easily lead away from their faith by atheist peer pressure.

As for "self-assured and sanctimonious" as Lucon put it, I see plenty of that in the critics of religion too. Their shit doesn't smell any different either.

i agree with you on most of your points in this thread, tk. as far as actually switching people to my agnostic/socially liberal point of view, ive never found it helps for other people to call religious republicans dumb and backwards, even when i happen to find a lot of them (not all) dumb and backwards. if your goal is just to be mean for the hell of it, its fun to call them dumb hicks, for sure. if youre actually trying to improve the world by changing people's points of view, or, for that matter, if youre trying to have any friends, being a militant athiest ala dothefandago isnt the greatest idea.

however, i think the weak-minded christians are some of the HARDEST to lure away from christianity, whereas thats not true for the athiests. the difference being, as a christian, you can "win" every argument with, "its the truth, the bible says it" whereas the rhetoric for being an athiest requires at least a couple more brain cells than that.

[DoTheFandango]

Because believe it or not, people like to talk to each other and debate with one another.

ABOUT WHAT?! That something may or may not exist? Something could exist based on a book? Something may not exist because its just in a book?

WE KNOW NOTHING. WE CAN ANSWER NOTHING.

It's fucking Schrodingers Cat all over again. Except with retards.

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[Superted]

People like to debate and discuss things we have no certainty over, it's human nature. You may aswell tell people to stop commenting on the weather.

I don't understand you sometimes, if you don't like people discussing things, why do you frequent the forums? If you don't like anybody, why do you talk to us?

[DoTheFandango]

People like to debate and discuss things we have no certainty over, it's human nature. You may aswell tell people to stop commenting on the weather.

I don't understand you sometimes, if you don't like people discussing things, why do you frequent the forums? If you don't like anybody, why do you talk to us?

It's a NONSCENSICAL arguement! There are answers to many things out there. WITH CONCRETE EVIDENCE. What do we have of PROOF of God's existance? A book. What do we have to prove otherwise? Other books.

If anything, the Arguement is completely subjective. In a debate you usually have two sides with facts, not two without or one with.

Argue about abortion. Argue about gay marriage. Argue about something that will ever get us anywhere, not this bullshit again.

[geekbot]

I am weak minded. I believe in something that you cannot prove. Isn't that infuriating? Yes, apparently it is.

In my defense, I'm a rather nice guy in real life. I like mountain biking, playing volleyball, and trick yoyoing. Other things too.

[K2Grey]

Actually, the book does not count as proof, because the book itself is not proven, and since there is no particular known way to prove it, objectively it may be viewed in the same light as the invisible pink unicorn deity.

[Liquid Blue]

It's a NONSCENSICAL arguement! There are answers to many things out there. WITH CONCRETE EVIDENCE. What do we have of PROOF of God's existance? A book. What do we have to prove otherwise? Other books.

If anything, the Arguement is completely subjective. In a debate you usually have two sides with facts, not two without or one with.

Argue about abortion. Argue about gay marriage. Argue about something that will ever get us anywhere, not this bullshit again.

How about you just not come to these topics? It doesn't matter how many times you say "shut the fuck up" in a different colored font, topics like these are going to continue to go on. I don't like or see the need for quite a few topics and posters here at these forums, but you don't see me going out of my way to repeatedly tell them to shut the fuck up, or that the topic sucks over and over again.

Harping on Disliked just because he's posting about a topic you don't like to disucss, or see discussed, doesn't mean shit here. Seriously, slap on the ignore button and move on, it's one of the best things you can do here to avoid pointless shit.