ITT: Religion

[HeavenSent]

Jesus never existed.

The Word is simply the Logos. Jesus originally was an expression of the Logos just like Wisdom which later inspired the fictional narrative of Mark that tied in the communities theology and ethics, possibly as a teaching tool or some other form of expression.

Yeah lets just throw away the history books of people with firsthand knowledge... i.e. The historian Josephus, Flavius. Documents history contemporary to Jesus.

[Squeezer]

Spoken like someone that has actually had a conversation with God. NOT!
It's much easier to praise God when He answers you. When you know He's right there with you... giving you the invisible, spiritual hug.. that you can actually feel! When you're in tune with Him, you know the boundaries of your potential requests. You know, which He will answer and which there's too much self for an answer to be possible.

Mr Stinkstar, your rectal cup runneth over. OR should I call you Telcat-male cat? ..since you insist on adding to a subject in which your knowledge of your own fecal consistency is much greater and far more educated than the topic at hand?

Oh, I used to speak to God. He "helped me" through my most trying years by causing my parents to divorce due to my Dad's adultery, having my best friend kill himself, giving my mother cancer, and having another of my friends be kicked out of his church for being HIV positive and not knowing where he got it from. That's a lot to put on the plate of a 15-19 year old kid who frequented Church every Sunday and said his Hail Mary's.

Yeah, some caring God. While you sit here and defend your rights on some stupid E-Forum with your computer (something you have the fortune of being able to afford), pretending your life is more than just a big waste, others starve to death, or die of diseases that we already have cures for. If God's watching, I wanna know what channel he likes, because I highly doubt he's ever tuning into the Africa network.

And as for the so-called ignorance I've read the Scriptures, the Dogmatic Law, and the CCC more times than I'd like to admit. I received a Catholic education from a man more dedicated to his faith than you (a true Christian, not someone that tells people to fuck themselves because they disagree) and I came to the conclusion that that lifestyle wasn't for me.

But it's for you, and I respect that, but I choose (remember that whole free will thing) to turn a deaf ear. I apologize if I refuse to bow in awe and give my life over to a being with the power to fix all, that refuses to do so because two dumbfucks decided to eat an apple millions of years ago. You go ahead and worship a God that holds a grudge like that, and I'll take my chances.

edit: I just read this post and realized that it's a little bit in the way of a "woe is me" kind of thing. I ask no sympathy for myself, or that you even give a shit about the things that have happened. I only ask that you understand that my disdain for God and my choice not to worship him is seeded in more than just trying to be a superficial E-Rebel, or to simply start shit. There are events in my life that have pushed me from God and that's where I am today. I'm glad that you feel close to him, but when I look around at the state of the world today, I can't bring myself to respect, much less adore something that can ignore that much pain and hardship. I feel that I have matured from someone that months ago would show an angry contempt to all Christians for having a faith I couldn't (sorry Superted....I know I never officially apologized for criticizing you about that, and being an immature dick when you were being very respectful about your faith...my mistake) to a person that can now acknowledge that faith is suited for some, but not for me. I'm happy that you can look past what I can't and see a being full of love...It's just that I can't ignore all the problems of this world and give myself fully to someone that watches us like an antfarm, asking our obedience when he refuses to give us respect. That doesn't fly with me, but I'm glad it works for you.

[AFPilot]

Yeah lets just throw away the history books of people with firsthand knowledge... i.e. The historian Josephus, Flavius. Documents history contemporary to Jesus.

Antiquities is dated from 93. This is not firsthand knowlege.

Secondly, even most Christian biblical scholars claim the phrases are obviously tampered with by Christians. Why would Josephus discuss Jesus in the manner he did?

What they do though is assume that there was something there about Jesus in the first place which was then tampered with. This is an assumption though, the real conclusion about those Josephus passages are that they are unreliable and should be ignored. I think Josephus' work makes more sense without the Jesus references at all.

The next historian to talk about Jesus is Tacitus in 115! This is not first hand knowlege either, and he's obviously just recording hearsay.

[HeavenSent]

Antiquities is dated from 93. This is not firsthand knowlege.

Secondly, even most Christian biblical scholars claim the phrases are obviously tampered with by Christians. Why would Josephus discuss Jesus in the manner he did?

What they do though is assume that there was something there about Jesus in the first place which was then tampered with. This is an assumption though, the real conclusion about those Josephus passages are that they are unreliable and should be ignored. I think Josephus' work makes more sense without the Jesus references at all.

The next historian to talk about Jesus is Tacitus in 115! This is not first hand knowlege either, and he's obviously just recording hearsay.

Oh my 60 years?!? I wasn't alive for Pearl Harbor but I could still write a historical recollection based on writings of witnesses.
Besides, that's when the book was published. Josephus had manuscripts from his day to recent history.
...So... All but the references to Jesus are to be trusted by Josephus? That, in and of itself sounds like crap since his writings start with Adam & Eve and go beyond the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

[Troll King]

All of this plagiarism talk isn't the whole point anyway. The real issue is that you're regurgitating information that isn't really coming directly from you to an audience that doesn't really want to hear it. The combination means that there is little actual discussion going on.

[Dack Falu]

I met Jesus in a rave once. He said something about being the son of god and the police chasing him and trying to nail him to a cross. He ended up passing out in the middle of the conversation, I knew anybody with that much hair must be a hippie.

[HeavenSent]

ignorant babble

God didn't do any of that. If you had read your bible with any comprehension, of which I highly doubt the possibility, you would see that God didn't do any of that. That is just your rationale for unanswered prayers.. because of your attitude and misguided anger/confusion.
Asking a Catholic for biblical help is like asking a dog to watch your steak while you take a shit.
...And Adam & Eve bit an apple and covered their private parts? Shouldn't they have covered their mouth? The fruit they partook of was not the kind you literally eat. When was the last time you gained some knowledge eating fruit? Dumbass!

[Blueblaze]

Oh, I used to speak to God. He "helped me" through my most trying years by causing my parents to divorce due to my Dad's adultery, having my best friend kill himself, giving my mother cancer, and having another of my friends be kicked out of his church for being HIV positive and not knowing where he got it from. That's a lot to put on the plate of a 15-19 year old kid who frequented Church every Sunday and said his Hail Mary's.

Yeah, some caring God. While you sit here and defend your rights on some stupid E-Forum with your computer (something you have the fortune of being able to afford), pretending your life is more than just a big waste, others starve to death, or die of diseases that we already have cures for. If God's watching, I wanna know what channel he likes, because I highly doubt he's ever tuning into the Africa network.

And as for the so-called ignorance I've read the Scriptures, the Dogmatic Law, and the CCC more times than I'd like to admit. I received a Catholic education from a man more dedicated to his faith than you (a true Christian, not someone that tells people to fuck themselves because they disagree) and I came to the conclusion that that lifestyle wasn't for me.

But it's for you, and I respect that, but I choose (remember that whole free will thing) to turn a deaf ear. I apologize if I refuse to bow in awe and give my life over to a being with the power to fix all, that refuses to do so because two dumbfucks decided to eat an apple millions of years ago. You go ahead and worship a God that holds a grudge like that, and I'll take my chances.

God doesn't hold grudges, and I think that’s obvious at the Cross. A God who is absolutely perfect, holy, sinless, spotless, etc.. cannot stand sin whatsoever. Man who has mocked, ridiculed, and sin against God, all the work He has done. God takes it personally, and it personally hurts God, yet His love is so overwhelming that the God of Heaven came down to earth to die for the creatures who He created, yet they hate Him. It wasn't a light punishment by all means if you look at it in the context of God. God is an omnipresent Being, who lives in all of time at once, including the time of the cross. Our sin has effect Jesus Christ eternally, and forever He will bear the nail prints in His hand, spear wound in His side, and the imprint of the crown of thorns on his face. Our sin greaves and hurts God eternally. You choose to believe and trust in God, or live a lifestyle of your own, but that doesn't mean you've changed the way God works, His existence, and His righteous justice which will come to all people. It is unfortunate that these problems have come your way, and I can't deny that God has ultimately allowed these problems. Why would God send all these problems? If you look at things in the eternal realm, Why would God send His son to die for us, who we are absolutely vile and wicked beings who rebel against God in every way. God allows trials and tribulations to come our way, but they are not the reasons for your problems in life. These trials only bring out the problems with our own heart, and if we have a consistent powerful relationship with God, they will bring out glory to the Lord, which is the ultimate reason why we exist. We are made for the Savior, not for an enjoyable or successful lifestyle on earth. Its not by works of man that gets us into Heaven, or even secures our salvation, but it’s the work of Jesus Christ, who eternally suffers because of sin. Oh what a great payment Jesus Christ made, the Creator dies for the creation so that we be released from the eternal tortures of Hell, how great a debt we owe to God.

[AFPilot]

What are you talking about 60 years for Pearl Harbor? We do have written testimony of Pearl Harbor from the day it happened. I don't think you understand... the first mentions of Jesus as a real person in a non-Christian account don't appear until 60 years after the event.

You could write about Pearl Harbor but if you were the first person to do so I wouldn't think it had ever happened if all you did was claim it happened without prividing any reliable evidence.

Also, I simply said the Josephus passages are acknowleged as tampered with and are therefore unreliable. I in no way implied that they were the only tampered with part of his work.

Think about that for a second... you want me to reject all of Josephus work aparently. Well, OK... how does that help suggest Jesus existed?

You need to explain to me what was written in Josephus originally and why you think that. Nobody has done this in a satisfactory manner yet.

I should clarify that Jesus may have existed, but his existence can't be established from the current body of evidence. When I said "Jesus didn't exist" what I meant was "I find it unlikely that Jesus existed." Jesus may have existed as an actual person but the existing evidence doesn't point to it. It is inconclusive. I have found other explanations for the origins of Christianity that I find more likely and they don't have any need for an actual Jesus walking the earth.

[Dack Falu]

When was the last time you gained some knowledge eating fruit?

I ate a rotten banana once, I gained the knowledge that I shouldn't eat rotten bananas.

[Squeezer]

Okay, I'm finished talking with you Heavensent.

At least Blueblaze replied respectfully....Though I don't agree.

You mask the fact that you don't have very good answers with lame and hardly witty, yet wholly disrespectful comebacks. I was simply trying to give a basis of why I believe what I do, and you couldn't help but take it personally.

So go ahead, make me a bad guy. At least I'm not running around being pissed off at people that don't agree with me.

[Rhino_haha]

I don't believe in your god or any god. Please shut the fuck up. Rhino_haha, care to throw out that Stephen Roberts quote a few more times?

Gladly.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts

[HeavenSent]

I ate a rotten banana once, I gained the knowledge that I shouldn't eat rotten bananas.

I can accept that ^-^

[HeavenSent]

Okay, I'm finished talking with you Heavensent.

At least Blueblaze replied respectfully....Though I don't agree.

You mask the fact that you don't have very good answers with lame and hardly witty, yet wholly disrespectful comebacks. I was simply trying to give a basis of why I believe what I do, and you couldn't help but take it personally.

So go ahead, make me a bad guy. At least I'm not running around being pissed off at people that don't agree with me.

I could give a fuck if you or anyone agrees with me.. What set me off with you was your initial snap of disrespect & hypocrisy... and ignorance.. (thinking i was the one pushing to take the bible literally) Dork. I dis'd you because you dis'd me first. So maybe next time, you will put forth the same energy you're willing to receive... Because I gave you the same friggin' energy you gave me. Deal with it.

[HeavenSent]

All of this plagiarism talk isn't the whole point anyway. The real issue is that you're regurgitating information that isn't really coming directly from you to an audience that doesn't really want to hear it. The combination means that there is little actual discussion going on.

Take it from TROLL KING... HE'S THE GOD DAMN (self-proclaimed)KING OF TROLLERS