Can the plane take off?

[D1st0rt]

This thread, summarized in picture form

[Fluffz]

nvm, what geek said

if the wheels speed = the planes speed (which i dont think is ment) it can take off.

but if the wheels rotation speed is ment noone could know untill he sat down and calculated it. the key question - like i stated - is what (rotating) speed has the wheel when:
a.) the wheel has the speed of the plane + the speed of the rotating band when
b.) the speed of the rotating band is the speed of the rotating wheel

is it infinite? can u calculate it? what is it? i have no clue. if it is a hight value the plane can not fly if it isnt it can. and dont say twice the planes speed, because it isnt.

[Pressure Drop]

the way i see it that although the wheels purpose is not drive but to reduce friction between the ground opposing the forward motion off the plane.

could the plane take off with blocks instead of wheels, yes but the friction is increased so the engines would require more power.

this system off a treadmill basically means that this friction is infinite as the treadmill matches the speed of the wheels at all times meaning that the plane couldn't get any forward momentum due to the added energy to the system from the treadmill making the frictional force of the wheels match the thrust of the engine.


Its confusing though and i could be wrong

[Fluffz]

actually its gona move backwards :fear:

[thesearcher]

Anyone have any hope for this guy?

edit: ok, i'm going to try to dumb this down:
There is air all around the plane. What does the plane use to go forward on takeoff? It's thrust, from the engine, which has zero to do with the wheels. The wheels are just a means of smooth motion... they're performing the basic task of a wheel - to make something roll. The engine pushes air backward so the plane can move forward. The engine does not spin the wheels. The plane that's ALREADY IN MOTION in turn (no pun intended) spins the wheels. If the treadmill runway counteracts what the WHEELS are doing, maybe that provies a little force backward and the plane will have to work a LITTLE harder to take off, but what you end up with in essence is a plane taking off as normal with the wheels spinning twice as fast... 1x as fast for its forward motion during take off and another 1x as fast for how fast the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction.

Allow me to dumb it down.

The plane is connected to the wheel, the wheel is connected to the treadmill, the treadmill is matching its speed at all times as the question states, the wheel can therefore not move forwards, if the wheel cannot move forwards, neither can the plane. Without the plane moving forwards, there is zero airflow over the wings, this equals zero lift.

[Fluffz]

the wheel is connected to the treadmill

this is either true or false, depending how you look at it. if the riddle is about the wheels forward movement speed it is false, the plane is not connected to the treadmill, the friction forces are to weak compared to the jet engines.
if the riddle is about the rotation speed of the wheel it is probably true, because i think the treadmill speed gets infinite and so does the force pulling the plane back. theoretically.

[Galleleo]

I think that it is possible..

If you have a car in this situation, an engine of a car drives on the wheels, which makes the car move, the faster the car drivers, the faster the wheels spin to make it drive faster the faster the conveyor belt goes.

But in this situation a plane is moved forward by the replacement of air through the engines, which means the wheels come after. So I don't think the conveyor belt can catch up with the wheels, cause the wheels only move because the plane is already moving forward. So the belt can only react until the plane already starts moving forward, thus always being behind on the movement of the plane. Giving the plane an advantage.

[PaulOakenfold]

This is not a question made to be answered correctly.

That is the answer.



EDIT: I'm sorry if I ruined it for ya'll.

[PH]

this is either true or false

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Aquatiq]

edit: you know what? it's not even worth it.

[D1st0rt]

well if it's a jet engine it draws air in and around it even when it's not moving, so you could theoretically get enough airflow over the wings with a powerful enough engine

[Foreign]

The plane's wheels would just burn up or it would fly. The conveyor belt might match the speed of the wheels, but if it has to sense the wheel speed then there will be a delay. The plane will move forward, however, at the same speed it normally would. Depending on how fast the wheels have to go to begin to melt and how long it would take the plane to lift off the ground, the wheels would either burn up or the plane would take off.

[Bioture]

ok i'm going to dumb this down even more because that's how I understand it...

for example you're in a car, and you're on the same conveyor belt. You step on the gas, the conveyor belt matches. You take the car to 100mph. The conveyor belt halts completely. The car should get to 100mph INSTANTLY (or near instantly because the speed of the car is still 0). Not taking into account the sudden air resistance, tire grip remains the same, etc.

So applying this theory to the airplane, wouldn't the conveyor belt have to stop INSTANTLY for the tires to grip and get the plane up to takeoff speed (increasing acceleration dramatically)? Airlift is still essential, right? So it can't take off in place. You need velocity (speed in a direction) right?

This is actually quite interesting

[HeavenSent]

Ok, here's my 2 cents...

The conveyor belt is irrelevant.
The plane's engines are working against the air, not the ground. The plane is gonna move forward no matter what the conveyor belt's doing. B)

[CrvenBan]

There is a taliban suicide bomber with Bush connections on that plane and he will blow it up before you can solve the problem