Can the plane take off?

[Da1andonly]

Imagine yourself running on a treadmill, you're right in the middle of it and you want to get to the other side. The treadmill equalizes your speed at all times. You run 500mph and you still won't get to the other side.

Neither will the plane be able to lift since the treadmill always moves at the EXACT opposite speed.

[CrvenBan]

Ok, at this point I am really hoping for some motherfucking snakes on that motherfucking plane or some unforseen plot twist cuz I'm about to start throwin popcorns!!

[Ewan]

Imagine yourself running on a treadmill, you're right in the middle of it and you want to get to the other side. The treadmill equalizes your speed at all times. You run 500mph and you still won't get to the other side.

Neither will the plane be able to lift since the treadmill always moves at the EXACT opposite speed.

Your legs are providing your forwards motion and are dependent on the surface.

In a plane, the forwards motion is governed by the engines, independent of the surface. The wheels simply provide an interface between the plane and the ground with the least friction possible.

[Aquatiq]

I think where people get thrown off is the idea that if the conveyor is moving backwards and the plane is on the conveyor, then this must translate to some backwards momentum that has to be overcome by the thrust. But of course the conveyor doesn't start up until the plane is already moving forward. It is the conveyor that must overcome the forward momentum imparted by the engines—and the forces just aren't comparable.

mhm

[thesearcher]

sigh.... the question is hyperthetical, you are looking at it as if its serious "yeah but before the conveyor belt has a chance to start up the planes already got some forward movement... blah blah blah" thats not how it is, the whole idea is that WHATEVER SPEED the wheels turn the conveyor belt EQUALS IT. if the wheels start going 20 mph, so does the conveyor belt, if the wheels go 1000 so does the conveyor belt, there is no time delay, allowing the plane to get some momentum. With this the case, as long as the wheels are connected to the ground, the plane cannot move.

for the plane to get any forward momentum, and as such any lift, the wheels have to spin faster than the conveyor belt is pushing it back, the whole idea is this cannot happen.

someone who is wrong, quoting another person who is wrong, makes neither of them right by the way.

[Aquatiq]

All I have to say is: HeavenSent.

ph, kong the shit out of this.

[PH]

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jesus christ, enough -Aquatiq

[Saturn V]

This question sucks.

Since the engines of the airplane operate independently of the wheels, we can replace the engine with something else--like an even bigger airplane with massive thrust located in front of the conveyor belt ("puller plane") and is attached to the other airplane by a rope or chain.

If the airplane on the conveyor belt doesn't move, then that means the "pulling plane" doesn't move, either--despite it firing up its engines and moving forward.

[LoGGi!]

Isn't this kinda like saying 'a plane is standing on a pair of poles, can it take off'.
Think about it, it's still standing still and all, so if the engines can pull enough air to make the air around the plane move backward (no fucking way that's alot of air to get moved/moving) over and under the wings it can lift... So, therefore I think the plane is not taking off

[PH]

jesus christ, enough

You told me to do it.

[RednaZ]

To support Ewan. If you're running on a treadmill that always matches your speed, you're stationary simply because the forward force is being generated in your legs. However when somebody else, who is not on the treadmill and thus is not being affected by it in any way, starts pushing you, you will move forward (if you disregard your legs failing on you and you hitting the floor). Seeing as planes have nice rotating wheels, it won't fall flat on its face but, just like on the treadmill, the forward force is being generated by the engines which has the same effect as somebody pushing you as in the above example. The engines, and thus the forward force are not affected by the conveyer belt, and so as long as the wheels don't break, the plane will move forward.

[Saturn V]

I'll take RednaZ and my analogies a little further:

Imagine a toy airplane with wheels and a non-existent treadmill that rotates at a bazillion gazillion rotations per minute. A child walks over to said treadmill with his toy airplane and places it on the treadmill and begins pushing the toy airplane forward.

What will the airplane do? Move forward.

The engines are pushing against the air, not the ground. The child represents the engines of the airplane.

Alternate ending:

A child walks over to said treadmill with his toy airplane and trips and falls face first on to the treadmill and dies.

[Fluffz]

this is actually a nice easy explanation, if you can agree that the 2 first quotes are true

the wheels spin faster than the conveyor belt is pushing back if the plane is moving forward.

the conveyor belt senses the speed of the plane's wheels and moves at exactly the same speed in the opposite direction.

the whole idea is this cannot happen.

if the wheels do not spin faster than the belt moves backwards the plane is not having any speed and cannot take off. quite simple. the answer is in the riddle itself, the plane is not moving forward. it doesnt matter if the plane uses air to accelerate, the riddle says it is standing still, the wheels spin at the same speed the belt moves backwards and not faster. its in the riddle

practically the belt would accelerate infinite fast as soon as the plane moves, destroying space time, voiding any plane movement.

(unless you think the planes wheels speed equals the planes speed, but than the riddle could have said planes speed right away so obviously the spin speed is ment)

[Da1andonly]

I thought this was a hypothetical question, not for some grand master in physics. :P

Fluffz, those two statements contradicts one eachother. Why would, say, the cockpit or the engines be moving faster than the wheels? The plane is all attached together...

[Fluffz]

uh? not faster, slower. the wheels spin is the speed of the moving band plus the speed of the plane. the plane has a lower speed than the wheels.

of course they contradict each other, thats the whole point. but they are true each in itself.