Does religion give people better morality?

[MetalHeadz]

now that I think about it this is a terrible thread.

It's because you really didn't get to the essence of what I was talking about. You just gave a load of misinformed, zenophobic general American slander which doesn't really stand up.

[/QUOTE]
My countries laws were founded by Christian laws, but then again I'm really down with fucking girls in the ass and buying worthless crap on Sundays.
[/QUOTE]

Your countries laws were based on common evolutionary values which religion hijacked a few thousand years ago to gain power.

1) Theocracies allow a traditional way of thinking, which is not always bad but it doesn't always allow for progress within the given society. (examples Iran, the Iran U.S incident, banning music, dancing, anything associated with the western world etc)

So basically 'Theocracies' have rigid uncompromising values which don't adapt to current global principles.

3) Christian and even Muslim laws are based of books and texts from thousands of years ago and they do not reflect our current beliefs, values, or ideologies. Religious laws are bias towards men and do not talk about the value of women in society, minority rights become a huge issue in most theocracies (only theocracy left is Iran, and I'm not even 100 percent on that one) use examples from the bible of how god created women to be the men's 'helper' or the Koran which says flat out that a women's worth is half of a mans.

Good point. If holy texts were to be taken literally, homosexuals, women and minorities would have a hard time and do in Islamic countries and even America in Southern states (for homosexuals and black people atleast). In the old testament in the bible, God is guilty of the most horrendous ethnic cleansing as seen when he ordered the destruction of Jericho. Churchill once commented when reading the bible, 'God really is an ass'.

It seems that religions also focus in on these aspects of there holy book's and overlook the other, more productive, messages such as 'love thy neighbour'. This polarises moderates and extremists but more importantly creates ideological barriers between different cultures which are very difficult to break down.

[genocidal]

If holy texts were to be taken literally, homosexuals, women and minorities would have a hard time and do in Islamic countries and even America in Southern states (for homosexuals and black people atleast)

God fuck I read another sentence. But when you're talking about my home it pisses me off.

Are you fucking European? You must be because it sounds like you get your cues on Southern America from Mississippi Burning or something. I'll say this: I saw more blatant racism in one week in Berlin, Germany than I have seen in years in the South. Black Southern culture is deeply rooted in the way people (black and white) in the South identify in the 21st century. Yes there are backwards ass towns just like there are in the north and just like your town in fucking Finland or whatever but they are no where near representative of the actual South.

Jesus Christ I'm going to have to just put you on ignore or something. The only reason I respond to this is not to convince you of anything - I already know that you're a hopeless moron - but to compel other Euros (or Canadians or whatever) to actually dig deeper before setting their stupid convictions about American culture or Southern culture based on Hollywood or dated literature.

[Da1andonly]

He's British, I think.

[genocidal]

Sorry for insulting your nation, Da1.

[MetalHeadz]

I assure you it's not dated literature nor the hollywood movies which gives my conviction about American culture, for the record. It's more the attitudes of Christians specifically in America and the fact there is a great deal of religiosity and a history of racial discrimination (although much better now) in your country, specifically the south.

Tell me, if America is so accepting of homosexuals and is not dominated by backward Christian values, why are Gay marriages illegal? Britain, a secular state, has had Gay marriage legalised for some years now. Surely this is clear evidence that America does not believe that Homosexuals should have equal rights to Heterosexuals and is an opinion likely to be religiously motivated. The Jewish and Christian lobbies have extensive power within the American political infrastructure and this is very apparent in policy making. See, abortion.

The lacklustre efforts to facilitate black New Orleans also leads me to believe that there could be risidual political reluctancy to accept black people as equals. Although this is another debate.

[Noah]

I assure you it's not dated literature nor the hollywood movies which gives my conviction about American culture, for the record. It's more the attitudes of Christians specifically in America and the fact there is a great deal of religiosity and a history of racial discrimination (although much better now) in your country, specifically the south.

Tell me, if America is so accepting of homosexuals and is not dominated by backward Christian values, why are Gay marriages illegal? Britain, a secular state, has had Gay marriage legalised for some years now. Surely this is clear evidence that America does not believe that Homosexuals should have equal rights to Heterosexuals and is an opinion likely to be religiously motivated. The Jewish and Christian lobbies have extensive power within the American political infrastructure and this is very apparent in policy making. See, abortion.

The lacklustre efforts to facilitate black New Orleans also leads me to believe that there could be risidual political reluctancy to accept black people as equals. Although this is another debate.

Good job! You really told that American off about how his country really is. He has no clue, he just lives there!

[Nycle]

Britain, a secular state, has had Gay marriage legalised for some years now.

There is a difference between a marriage and civil partnership, the latter is true for Britain.

[Squeezer]

I assure you it's not dated literature nor the hollywood movies which gives my conviction about American culture, for the record. It's more the attitudes of Christians specifically in America and the fact there is a great deal of religiosity and a history of racial discrimination (although much better now) in your country, specifically the south.

Then where do you get this information which us lifelong Americans seem to lack? I'm honestly curious about where your self evident truths come from. America is a country which has historically crept towards new and meaningful legislation (Civil Rights took over a century to culminate). Right now Gay Marriage isn't legal, but those that oppose it are starting to go on the wayward. As this new generation takes power, I'm sure you'll be surprised to see many new and more understanding laws brought to the forefront of American politics and civil lifestyle.

Tell me, if America is so accepting of homosexuals and is not dominated by backward Christian values, why are Gay marriages illegal? Britain, a secular state, has had Gay marriage legalised for some years now. Surely this is clear evidence that America does not believe that Homosexuals should have equal rights to Heterosexuals and is an opinion likely to be religiously motivated. The Jewish and Christian lobbies have extensive power within the American political infrastructure and this is very apparent in policy making. See, abortion.

Gay Marriage is legal in a few states, and more states continue to adopt laws that allow for civil unions and gay marriages each year. It's only a matter of time before it becomes such a large issue that politicians will no longer leave it on the backburner and legislation will be passed accordingly.

And in regards to abortion...It's legal buddy. See Roe v. Wade

The lacklustre efforts to facilitate black New Orleans also leads me to believe that there could be risidual political reluctancy to accept black people as equals. Although this is another debate.

Katrina marked the inadequacy of an administration. Had you perhaps lived in this country and seen the full picture on that issue, you would have seen how the average American came to support the people displaced by that disaster (much like the days following 9/11). But you don't have that perspective so you don't know what you're talking about.

[genocidal]

Do you have any fucking clue how many Southerners have voluntarily spent their summers and even taken breaks from their jobs just to help the Katrina victims? FOR NO PAY! I don't see any Brits over here righting the wrongs of the racist Southern white man. Additionally, the poor effort by the FEDERAL (hint: it's in Washington DC, read a map) government was not so much racial as it was socio-economic - and unfortunately due to our history those two have become intertwined. You wouldn't understand so I'll stop there.

I mean you say you know things about the South, but then you cite political institutions as representative of a section of America. Is all of America, or even the majority, "the South" to you?

Squeezer swept up everything else.

[Galleleo]

The thread title can only be answered with a yes for people that believe. People that truly believe in a religion get moral from that, strength, etc.

[MetalHeadz]

I really didn't want to get into an American vs. Europe dissing match, I apologise if I at all stereotyped.

My main point is that religious people have some warped principles from that of the general western zeitgeist. This is because in their scriptures there are messages which are very dated.

In America, it is some extreme and, as you have very strongly argued, rare cases that homosexuals are discriminated against because of religious zealots. In Iran, it's the same for women.

My beef is with religion.

[Facetious]

No, but it doesn't give anyone worse morals either.

[Cops]

Good point. If holy texts were to be taken literally, homosexuals, women and minorities would have a hard time and do in Islamic countries and even America in Southern states (for homosexuals and black people atleast).

I've got to agree with Genocidal, you're painting an ugly picture of the Southern states. I find most people to be kind-hearted, even if some people are blatantly ignorant.

[Mythrandir]

Had nothing more productive to say on the matter?

Me? I guess I do have an opinion on the matter, but it is not at all that well researched.

Also, the way your question is phrased has a hint of self-reference, which makes it hard to answer to. The exact meaning of good, bad, worse and better are defined within a moral framework, which means that participants of the discussion can and will have different interpretations of these terms.

[Liquid Blue]

just like acting black on the internet.

I'm on to you

you got me


new season starts sept. 27th

EDIT- fucking Kolar for the win-

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