Conspiratorially speaking seeking facts not theory

[SEAL]

Do you know what I find so interesting?

All these "internet facts" are -so- easely proven wrong by the sceptics.
You're saying "wheres the plane, wheres the hole". When you actually read how the building has been build, then it makes perfect sence.
Now, those are heavely researched facts, not some internet fact, yet you ignore that.


About the window. How can something not just be what it is?
Read this article:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=4082765
How can that happen??? I mean 47 floors. Thats 4+7=11. It must have taken him 9 seconds to fall down... !!!!! 911 !!!
Do you get my point? Technicly, he shouldn't be alive. It's imposible. Yet... it is what it is.



By the way, you must love the national-treassure movie?

[iLDuce]

fuck this, tone did it better

[HeavenSent]

IMHO
A couple of good & interesting links:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

http://www.thepentacon.com

:wub:

[UrMaMaIsFuNnY2K]

Going to make this plain and simple.

Basically the building was built a long time ago and this plane was built recently, therefore the building was not made to withstand the impact of airplanes of the future. Its like if i were to build a tower out of legos, then take a paper airplane and try to bring it down, not gonna happen right. So then I wait a couple of years and build a plane out of titanium and then chuck it at my lego building that was made to withstand the paper airplane, so therefore 9/11 was not an inside job kthx.

[HeavenSent]

The public's awareness of this [inside job] is spreading like wildfire. Soon the so-called tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy nut-jobs are going to be the majority on this issue. Everyday more and more people are waking up. The cloud of deception is beginning to clear and those behind this atrocity will be exposed and routed out. I see hope for America, but I also see a storm before the calm.

Reichstag 911
Reichstag 911 Part II

First they came for the Muslims and i didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.
Then they came for immigrants, detaining them indefinately, solely upon the certification of the attorney general and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't an immigrant.
Then they came to enter homes and offices for unannounced sneak and peek searches and I didn't speak up because I had nothing to hide.
Then they came to arrest American citizens and hold them indefinately without any charges or access to lawyers and I didn't speak up because I would never be arrested.
Then they came for immigrants and students from selected countries luring them under the requirements of special registration as a rouse to seize them and detain them and I didn't speak up because I wasn't required to register.
Then they came for anyone who objected to government policy because it only aided the terrorists and gave ammunition to America's enemies and I didn't speak up because I didn't speak up.
And then they came for me and by that time, no one was left to speak up.

[Kolar]

oh no! Now even mythrandir is making cheap alien jokes at us! Obviously planes hit these buildings, but could even a diesel fire bring down the world trade center as shown in those vidoes? The building had 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. To hold that fire caused this building to collapse straight down would mean believing that the fire caused all 81 columns to fail at exactly the same time.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...7&postcount=97

Again it takes a much more extensive knowledge of physics to debunk this stuff but we can try using the existing facts. On the WTC towers the fires and structural damage was more then enough to drop both buildings. Find some numbers on WTC-7.

[JacKieChan>]

Jet fuel

Yeah Vatican, historically there have been fires burning in steel highrise buildings for as long as 20 hours and no steel building has ever fallen from a fire, yet 3 in one day fall after just a few hours. :fear:

Yeah, when I was watching the TV on that day I just thought the upper parts of the buildings would be gutted. I never thought the building would come down. It seemed really weird.

However, the other buildings were never hit by a jet air-plane traveling really fast, impacting, and then starting a huge fire with thousands of gallons of jet fuel. That's an intense fire. The fire also had huge amounts of other fuel in paper, and other office furniture. Did you see all that paper continuously raining down?

Supposedly, the heat from the fire weakened the steal, caused the horizontal floors to break loose and then fall like pancakes. Ever play burgertime on the original nintendo? Kinda like that, you get a few floors that fall, each floor below can't hold the weight....down, down down, goes the building.

[SEAL]

The public's awareness of this [inside job] is spreading like wildfire.

The opposide actually. Within a year, half of the people who believed it was an inside job stopped believing it.


just for the friday-afternoon-fun of it (and feed heavensend), this is what happend to a flat + plane:
http://images.google.nl/images?sourc...-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[JacKieChan>]

Rip 2008-2010?

Hey Heaven,

Why do you have RIP America 2008-10? What's gonna happen?

In the general spirit of this thread, being anti-goverment. As an American citizen I'd like to say I greatly dislike the American goverment and political machine as it currently opperates. With all the special interests operating and creating policy in Washington most of our goverment represents the interests of big business and anyone who has the ability to buy a vote rather than people like me, the average American.

I think it's time for a revolution.

Throughout history people rise up when they think their government does not represent their interests. When the powers at be serve themselves instead of serving the people, the people rise up and take back what is rightfully theirs.

Some try within the system if possible. But when the system is intrenched and has no will to change, and resists change, revolution comes to remove the infestation.

I think it's time for a revolution.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!

But the real question is what kind of revolution, from within the system, or a real revolution to clean out the refuse?

People have tried to bring "change" for several years since lobbying has gotten ridiculous, but still special interests prevail.

John Edwards has impressed me with his thoughts on taking down special interests in Washington. Too bad he's not doing too well so far in the democratic primaries. Maybe he'll bow out and join Barak as his VP. That'd be a power ticket IMHO.

But I think some of the current Dem canadates are sincere and would like to bring about change, but I don't think they will be successfull.

It'd be nice to be able to take charge of part of the military and stage a military coup d'état.

First order of business is to hold trials for all the dirty politicians, lobbists and leaders from the companies supporting them for crimes against humanity.

Some lobbiest do not cause harm, but my favorite are the ones that are paid to try to spread misinformation about global climate change. All just to keep power and money, they try to confuse people of the factS. Just twist a few things here and there so no one really knows what the truth is. Meanwhile, we're on a bad path with a grim future.

Well, what are we to do? I am pissed. We need major change, lets rise up and start a revolution.:fear:

[Mythrandir]

oh no! Now even mythrandir is making cheap alien jokes at us! Obviously planes hit these buildings, but could even a diesel fire bring down the world trade center as shown in those vidoes? The building had 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. To hold that fire caused this building to collapse straight down would mean believing that the fire caused all 81 columns to fail at exactly the same time.

I'm sorry but there is only so much I can handle. I am very sympathetic to those who criticize authority, but this is out of control. Pretty much every piece of evidence presented by Heavensent (et al.) goes along the lines of: "Look, this is weird! Therefore 911 was staged". This is a huge non-sequitor, almost an argument at ignorantium, and it reminds me of Creation vs Evolution debates ("This fossile is not completely understood, therefore Evolution is wrong", "I can not see how the eye could develop through Evolution, therefore Evolution is false").
A lot of things happened at 911, and a lot of things happened for the first time ever. There are bound to be events or observations which seem odd or unlikely - even after careful study. Most importantly, the alternative explanation is never subject to the same criticism as the established one. I really don't want to pick on you, but consider this passage you wrote earlier in this thread:

-the people on the planes are dead. doesnt matter how, id like to imagine planted pilots on the 4 planes with gas masks. gas is released, down they go, planes fly into a super high orbit and eject the passengers into space. meanwhile remote control dummy planes fly out of volcano underground lair and are flown into buildings. simple.

Can't you see the utter lunacy of this, how little sense this makes? Not only is there zero evidence to remotely indicate this possibility (I can already name 3 physical impossibilities), even in the case of a set-up, the best way to kill an airplane full of passengers is still to fly it into buildings.

In the case that 911 was caused by the government, the easiest way to accomplish this is to actually do it in the way it was done: go undercover, teach some fundie muslims how to do this and set them loose. Why work so hard to pretend that a plane has flown into a building when you can actually fly a plane into a building?

[JacKieChan>]

Omg-too Funny

-the people on the planes are dead. doesnt matter how, id like to imagine planted pilots on the 4 planes with gas masks. gas is released, down they go, planes fly into a super high orbit and eject the passengers into space. meanwhile remote control dummy planes fly out of volcano underground lair and are flown into buildings. simple.

OMG-that is just too funny. He has to be joking. That's so hilarious. Good one man.

Volcano underground lair

Classic. Just like in the comics. ROFL Good one. I love it.:grin:

[Vatican Assassin]

ya myth, one problem I run into as a 911 skeptic is I get lumped in with all the other hair-brained theories out there. that post you quote of mine was obviously a joke, i do agree that planes flew into the buildings. and yes, raising one weird occurance about 911 does not prove it was a conspiracy.

however, there were definately strange things worth talking about, even if I do not hope to come to any final conclusion.

that being said, i think the WTC 7 tower falling down looks like a controlled demolition when it falls, there is just no other explanation on that one. the owner is on tape saying he gave the order to the fire daprtment to "pull" the building, a demolition term for imploding it. watch the video man, and realize for a building to fall at the speed of gravity it must meet no resistance, meaning all 80 support steel and conrete support columns gave away at the same exact instant. but all engineering and phsyical data aside ( of which i know little) just watching that building fall down is neough for me think it is controlled demolition. what that means in the big picture of things is up to debate.

[Epinephrine]

ya myth, one problem I run into as a 911 skeptic is I get lumped in with all the other hair-brained theories out there. that post you quote of mine was obviously a joke, i do agree that planes flew into the buildings. and yes, raising one weird occurance about 911 does not prove it was a conspiracy.

however, there were definately strange things worth talking about, even if I do not hope to come to any final conclusion.

that being said, i think the WTC 7 tower falling down looks like a controlled demolition when it falls, there is just no other explanation on that one. the owner is on tape saying he gave the order to the fire daprtment to "pull" the building, a demolition term for imploding it. watch the video man, and realize for a building to fall at the speed of gravity it must meet no resistance, meaning all 80 support steel and conrete support columns gave away at the same exact instant. but all engineering and phsyical data aside ( of which i know little) just watching that building fall down is neough for me think it is controlled demolition. what that means in the big picture of things is up to debate.

Exactly, you do know little. How many demolished buildings have you seen carefully? How good was you survey of WTC7 before it fell? Did you actually time it and measure it and determine it fell at the speed of gravity? I only know a little too, but I trust expert analysis and common sense rather than an armchair analysis from some grainy online video.

That's as credible as saying "look a jumbo jet weight HUNDREDS OF TONS. how the hell can it fly! Takeoff speed is only 200 knots at most. My car doesn't even fly at that speed. It is therefore impossible, must be a trick".

[Vatican Assassin]

Exactly, you do know little. How many demolished buildings have you seen carefully? How good was you survey of WTC7 before it fell? Did you actually time it and measure it and determine it fell at the speed of gravity? I only know a little too, but I trust expert analysis and common sense rather than an armchair analysis from some grainy online video.

That's as credible as saying "look a jumbo jet weight HUNDREDS OF TONS. how the hell can it fly! Takeoff speed is only 200 knots at most. My car doesn't even fly at that speed. It is therefore impossible, must be a trick".

th fact that it is grainy does not stop me from being able to tell that it fell in 10 seconds, and i can see the whole building fall unimpeded at the rate of gravity. a simple equation of hight and acceleration shows 9.something seconds for free-fall speed. just watch the vidoe and use some common sense, you don't need expertise for this one to look funny.

[SEAL]

I'm quite the sceptic too.

However I do believe that a country is willing to do anything to maintain power and resources; as history has proven this with any supernation.
Anyways, imo, in some sence, i guess there is nothing wrong with it.

Anyways, Epinephrine, could you comment on the following video?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0
Being a sceptic i watch the video since vatican commented on wtc7 (soi checked it) and i do find this weird.