ITT: Craigslist, Nazis, Atomic Bombs, Paradise Rakes in the Dough

[Eric is God]

Well my philosophical part is that human nature always tends to take things to the extreme in the end unless a system is designed with heavy moderating influences. A system where the 'weak are killed before they are born' is the kind of system that tends to lead to extremes in the end.

Only if you assume that killing off the weak (your words not mine) would not have a moderating effect on society. It depends on what extremes you are referring to. Removing all rapists and mass murderers from a society would reduce the level of violent crimes (less extreme) while at the same time decreasing the rights of the individual (more extreme). Maybe that wasn't the best example, but you get the idea. It all depends where on the curve you want to be...

[Eric is God]

Then we dropped 2 more.

Never claimed to be a history expert Am I correct in assuming that many historians believe the use of those bombs saved more lives than they took?

[Epinephrine]

You are only focusing on the negatives (which by the way is my job) of the proposal. As a doctor you should also be aware of how much our health care system is struggling to provide the bare minimum of care. IF some of my proposals led to a system that improved life expectancy, ensured everyone had access to full medical with zero waiting time and saved tens of thousands of lives every year in Canada alone would you at least consider our government investigating them? You are treating this as a logistics/reality based debate when it is meant to be theoretical/philosophical in nature. Development and use of the atom bomb killed thousands but helped to stop a war thereby saving thousands. Again, in times of crisis a government often pushes or breaks the moral line. All I'm suggesting is that it might be beneficial for governments to be proactive and investigate morally questionable avenues that may avert possible global crises, some that will almost assuredly come in our lifetimes.

Well my philosophical part is that human nature always tends to take things to the extreme in the end unless a system is designed with heavy moderating influences. A system where the 'weak are killed before they are born' is the kind of system that tends to lead to extremes in the end.

[Kolar]

Development and use of the atom bomb killed thousands but helped to stop a war thereby saving thousands.

Then we dropped 2 more.

[Eric is God]

Eric, I guess it's just that I see all types of people in my job every day. In fact I probably see more economically disadvantaged, socially disadvantaged, and physically and mentally disadvantaged people than most people on this forum on a daily basis. Even if I may hate seeing some of these annoying people, some the scum of the earth sometimes, I have to admit that most people do have an intrinsic value.

There is so much more to a person than some simple genetic value that can be made (such as societal or economic conditions in which the person lives in) that it is absolutely arrogant to think that you can so easily judge people in such a way. To simply say 'you should be able to kill off those who are useless before they are born' is extremely short sighted as there is really absolutely no way to judge a person's value before they are born.

I personally agree with the right to abortion, but that should be limited to the mother. Having state-sanctioned abortion or society-sanctioned forced abortions is plain silly.

You are only focusing on the negatives (which by the way is my job) of the proposal. As a doctor you should also be aware of how much our health care system is struggling to provide the bare minimum of care. IF some of my proposals led to a system that improved life expectancy, ensured everyone had access to full medical with zero waiting time and saved tens of thousands of lives every year in Canada alone would you at least consider our government investigating them? You are treating this as a logistics/reality based debate when it is meant to be theoretical/philosophical in nature. Development and use of the atom bomb killed thousands but helped to stop a war thereby saving thousands. Again, in times of crisis a government often pushes or breaks the moral line. All I'm suggesting is that it might be beneficial for governments to be proactive and investigate morally questionable avenues that may avert possible global crises, some that will almost assuredly come in our lifetimes.

[Epinephrine]

Eric, I guess it's just that I see all types of people in my job every day. In fact I probably see more economically disadvantaged, socially disadvantaged, and physically and mentally disadvantaged people than most people on this forum on a daily basis. Even if I may hate seeing some of these annoying people, some the scum of the earth sometimes, I have to admit that most people do have an intrinsic value.

There is so much more to a person than some simple genetic value that can be made (such as societal or economic conditions in which the person lives in) that it is absolutely arrogant to think that you can so easily judge people in such a way. To simply say 'you should be able to kill off those who are useless before they are born' is extremely short sighted as there is really absolutely no way to judge a person's value before they are born.

I personally agree with the right to abortion, but that should be limited to the mother. Having state-sanctioned abortion or society-sanctioned forced abortions is plain silly.

[Eric is God]

Eric, you are aware that the Nazis were FAR more than just about killing Jews right? Like they killed off handicaps, other races, sent people who had any physical and mental difficulties to prison and to grisly medical experiments, and they also mass raised babies in mass baby-raising factories to guarantee their pureness. The pervasive view in the 1930s in many western nations were that Jews were specifically inferior (note the number of countries including Canada which refused entry for Jews during the holocaust) and as such along with political reasons (the need to find a scapegoat) were some of the most powerful reasons for the Nazi's focus on them.

Your ideas if taken to the extreme, basically would reflect this reality, as human nature would take over. There is absolutely no scientific way to determine who is 'useful' and who is not 'useful' or who is 'good for society' and who is not 'good for society'. Brilliant people can become mass murders, and the mentally retarded could become useful janitors. The fact is, the only way to 'sort' out people is from people's own prejudices and as such, when taken to the logical conclusion a plan which follows your principles would enviably lead to chaos.

I was aware of most of the historical points you made Epi. I would never want anything I have proposed to be taken to the extreme as extremes never work in any aspect of life. I would also never condone anything the Nazis did especially after everything my grandfather has told me (he faught for the Germans in WWII and no, he was not a supporter of the Nazis, just a 17 year old dragged into the fight).

I agree that there is no perfect way to weed out the undesirables from society and there is always a chance that a genius will turn out to be the greater mass murderer in history, but I still believe the overall benefit to quality of life from implementing some of these proposals would be largely positive. Even if none of them are, I still contend that the imaginary line of morality that we use to pass judgement in our society should constantly be re-examined.

I think your personal knowledge of me is influencing your opinion Epi. While some of the ideas I have proposed are based on my principles, some were simply put forth to discuss society's morality. You know I am a huge believer in efficiency and optimizing outcomes and often these economic equations cannot factor in the cost to a society's conscience.

[Epinephrine]

Eric, you are aware that the Nazis were FAR more than just about killing Jews right? Like they killed off handicaps, other races, sent people who had any physical and mental difficulties to prison and to grisly medical experiments, and they also mass raised babies in mass baby-raising factories to guarantee their pureness. The pervasive view in the 1930s in many western nations were that Jews were specifically inferior (note the number of countries including Canada which refused entry for Jews during the holocaust) and as such along with political reasons (the need to find a scapegoat) were some of the most powerful reasons for the Nazi's focus on them.

Your ideas if taken to the extreme, basically would reflect this reality, as human nature would take over. There is absolutely no scientific way to determine who is 'useful' and who is not 'useful' or who is 'good for society' and who is not 'good for society'. Brilliant people can become mass murders, and the mentally retarded could become useful janitors. The fact is, the only way to 'sort' out people is from people's own prejudices and as such, when taken to the logical conclusion a plan which follows your principles would enviably lead to chaos.

[Zerzera]

Naturally there is a gray area in this.

Not according to Die Endlösung.

[Izor]

But then your morals go as far as giving up on people when they don't bring in enough money?
You keep talking about contributing, but what exactly are you contributing other than that what you get paid for?

I dont give up on people that bring in enough money, and I've never said that. I've only suggested killing off prisoners who are only ever going to be a burden to our society. Same applies to retards/people with severe disorders. Naturally there is a gray area in this. What kills me is that you compare my personal opinion on the situation to a lack of intelligence, when in fact, its only a lack of so called morals that I have.

[Ricko]

wow...thankyou all for killing a potentially hilarious thread with your needs to make yourselves seem more intelligent than the next man.

Anyway, whats most worrying about those advertisements is that alot of them were married or/and with kids

[Zerzera]

I'm not a racist thats whats so insane about this.

Oh, you already forgot about your ban?

anyway you really have no idea what i stand for zerz

So, what do you stand for exactly? Because all these years you are talking about how insensitive and barbaric other societies are and that you have every right to attack those countries. But then your morals go as far as giving up on people when they don't bring in enough money?
You keep talking about contributing, but what exactly are you contributing other than that what you get paid for?
The things I do for others, I do for them. I don't believe I have to account anything to anyone as long as I am not inflicting on others. I never will have to use any of my actions as an argument in a competition with people like you. Comparing the length of charity dicks is exactly what is against the point I am trying to make. Everyone has the right to live the life they want and can only be judged by the harm they do to others.

EDIT: I can only hope that you will ever feel the despair that comes with being given up before you have a chance to practice the beliefs you have at this point of your life.

[Izor]

I'm not a racist thats whats so insane about this.

anyway you really have no idea what i stand for zerz

[Zerzera]

If I made a post like that, it would be thread derailment and I'd get warned/banned. But since you've gone there, I'll just throw this out there for you Zerzera. I have a job where I can be a productive member of society, and learn skills for my own future benefit. And I'm in better shape than you. You, as far as I know, are still in college not really doing anything with your life. Have fun with that

I was just replying to your retarded remarks. The reason I don't get warned and banned is because I am not a racist and a troll. I simply replied to your post. At least Eric is God is trying to tickle us with the question what morality is. Where to draw a line. Where you just want to unplug people because you only think of what people do for your economy. Even though you are supposedly an idealist that thinks he has to protect his nation.
But I totally agree, as soon as a soldier loses its purpose -wounded- it should be shot, rather than having to pay the expenses of transporting it home, treat it, put it through therapy when it will probably become an alcoholic and a menace to society.
Wouldn't it be great to decide who lives and who dies, just as God told us we should do.

[Izor]

If I made a post like that, it would be thread derailment and I'd get warned/banned. But since you've gone there, I'll just throw this out there for you Zerzera. I have a job where I can be a productive member of society, and learn skills for my own future benefit. And I'm in better shape than you. You, as far as I know, are still in college not really doing anything with your life. Have fun with that