itt: evolution and trolling

[Zerzera]

Fluffz, your logic just isn't logical.

You are trying to call yourself a master in Biology, Meta-physics, Probability and what not. And now you try to claim you can judge people on the science of logic too?
You are attacking the Evolution theory because the chance of life (as we know it) to emerge from this universe must be too slim to have happened.
But, tell me please -do note, I am not attacking you (yet), I want answers from you so maybe I can share your beliefs.- what would the theory of this creator add to the probability of life (as we know it) to emerge?

You just added a convergence before the chain of life (as we know it) and say it makes it more probable, but how does it? This grand architect is more perfect than the entire human kind together, is it not less likely for a composition like that to occur?

[Epinephrine]

Guess what would have happened if one of the other 100 million semen got to the egg instead of me. You're right! A human baby that isn't me would have been born. You are starting to give me a headache.

Actually in a way, you're showing how your calculation is just as full of holes.

Even if we can pretend that your numbers of 10^40000 is accurate (any equation with such large numbers could easily vary with only a VERY small change in starting variables which are all... assumptions), that only calculates the probability of everything working out exactly the way that we have it.

The point is, even minute differences might have still created life, just not in any way that we would recognize now, or perhaps with only very minor variances.

Fluffz's point is that even though there is such an infinitesimally small chance that you would exist right now, you exist and not another person in your place or whatever, and that is a FACT. That is what your equations refer to, that the chance of any one particular version of events would have worked out. But just as you have acknowledged that in any other way a human would have formed, perhaps in any other way life would have still formed, just not life in the way that you have imagined.

[milosh]

You are trying to call yourself a master in Biology, Meta-physics, Probability and what not. And now you try to claim you can judge people on the science of logic too?
You are attacking the Evolution theory because the chance of life (as we know it) to emerge from this universe must be too slim to have happened.
But, tell me please -do note, I am not attacking you (yet), I want answers from you so maybe I can share your beliefs.- what would the theory of this creator add to the probability of life (as we know it) to emerge?

You just added a convergence before the chain of life (as we know it) and say it makes it more probable, but how does it? This grand architect is more perfect than the entire human kind together, is it not less likely for a composition like that to occur?

I don't have to tell scientists that God is outside of science because they already believe it. God cannot be explained by natural phenomena. You cannot describe God with measurements like distance or time. You cannot explain God's composition because it's not made of matter. The entire theory that God created the universe states that He is outside of us and greater than us. Something like that is just too big to wrap our minds around with science.

[DoTheFandango]

my bloody valentine still sucks.

drugs or not.

FUCK YOU HARD.
WE WERE ONCE IN LOVE SQUEEZER.
ONCE IN LOVE.

EDIT: ph, I didn't triple post, I just double posted.
I declare myself my own state.

[Epinephrine]

It doesn't assure ignorance. That is I'm assuming you don't believe everyone who believes in a higher power is ignorant. Because if you do, you are an arrogant fuck, and think of most of the world as ignorant. I'm sure many more intelligent people believe in a higher power. It's never been suggested that anyone should discontinue the search for the truth about our arrival or the advent of life. Never has anyone on this forum suggested that you should just take it as "god made it." Yeah for 1000 years people were in the dark, but then the Renaissance came. Surely you aren't suggesting it came about because people stopped believing in God? There's absolutely nothing to suggest that you can't believe in creation while at the same time earnestly trying to defraud it by scientific means. This is where you are becoming ignorant to assume that because someone believes in god, they aren't just as willing as YOU are to change there beliefs if presented with concrete scientific evidence.

It actually does assure ignorance. Here's why.

His point isn't that 'well I can see that the preponderance of evidence points towards evolution being true, I just don't know how the starting conditions could have worked out without an intelligent designer', which I guess could be fine. His point is that all of creation, from the idea that any evolution has happened in the past (his monkeys->humans and wolves->whales example) cannot be true, and that all of life's constructs (his ideas about organs being so perfect the way they are) are just so amazingly complex that there has to be no other way than a designer making them for it to exist.

This is the basic argument of all people who subscribe to intelligent design, which is, the world is so complex right now, there's no way there's any other explanation other than the fact that someone created it all.

Whether or not certain individuals who subscribe to ID may or may not take it a bit further and at least try and explain individual processes without that cop out is irrelevant. Because in the end the entire Intelligent Design movement is really a politically and religiously motivated movement whose ideas become a way for creationists to justify the story of creation as described in the bible and to quash descent into this.

The entire idea of having intelligent design in the first place, is to attempt to instill enough legitimacy in a blatantly religious idea by shrouding it in fake scientific justification so that people who do not have the expertise or will to really search for the answers more would accept it at face value, and accept that some things don't need to be evaluated further, because what's the point, the answer is already out there.

That is what breeds ignorance and that is dangerous.

Personally I think religion should have no place in science. Science doesn't have all the answers including the fundamental answers of what came before the big bang, and what were the starting conditions necessary for life. For that I honestly have no answer, and don't mind for religion to step in because it fills a necessary void in our 'need to know'. But when religion tries to question well established research, data, and facts by disinformation and misdirection, that in itself I am strongly against.

[PH]

EDIT: ph, I didn't triple post, I just double posted.
I declare myself my own state.

yeah my bad, i just pasted the same warning to all 3 of you because honestly this thread is a colossal waste of time and i wanted to leave it asap.

[Summa]

Actually in a way, you're showing how your calculation is just as full of holes.

Even if we can pretend that your numbers of 10^40000 is accurate (any equation with such large numbers could easily vary with only a VERY small change in starting variables which are all... assumptions), that only calculates the probability of everything working out exactly the way that we have it.

The point is, even minute differences might have still created life, just not in any way that we would recognize now, or perhaps with only very minor variances.

Fluffz's point is that even though there is such an infinitesimally small chance that you would exist right now, you exist and not another person in your place or whatever, and that is a FACT. That is what your equations refer to, that the chance of any one particular version of events would have worked out. But just as you have acknowledged that in any other way a human would have formed, perhaps in any other way life would have still formed, just not life in the way that you have imagined.

hello quantum theory! this existence is the resultant of a series of events and choices, whether quantum theory is correct and a new universe is created for every possible choice that can be made (and is made in its own universe) is up to you...its mind boggling confusing crap thats hard to grasp... but our existence is a result of many events some of which we as ignorant humans and scientists may view as minute may end up resulting in a humongous change in the future. the fact is that we are.

and what is it with you people and not reading my posts, while you say the chances are very low i say the chances are very high, and yes as stated again earlier i already nullified ur stupid calculations, they dont belong here

[milosh]

Fluffz's point is that even though there is such an infinitesimally small chance that you would exist right now, you exist and not another person in your place or whatever, and that is a FACT. That is what your equations refer to, that the chance of any one particular version of events would have worked out. But just as you have acknowledged that in any other way a human would have formed, perhaps in any other way life would have still formed, just not life in the way that you have imagined.

Chaos is in everything and constantly increasing. The universe is filled with randomness. This does not make things more probable but less probable. The fact that I exist is an outcome of this randomness, but that doesn't make it probable. It really depends on your perspective. If I bought a lottery ticket it wouldn't make sense to after hearing that the winning numbers aren't mine say "What are the odds of me getting the exact ticket I'm holding in my hands? Whoaaaa." Chaos and probability are separate entities; you cannot mix the two.

EDIT: I'm really tired of this discussion: I make a few points, Epinephrine makes a large post with several paragraphs that all contain information that either misrepresents me or I disagree with, Fluffz says something nonsensical in a seemingly profound way, castromarx or DTF point and laugh, Summa says nothing applies to our understanding because of the quantum theory and I have to somehow defend my misrepresentations while answering questions that are better suited for professors of metaphysics and not post three times in a row. Can we end this discussion or at least agree to disagree on a few repeating points that continue to be recycled?

[Summa]

Chaos is in everything and constantly increasing. The universe is filled with randomness. This does not make things more probable but less probable. The fact that I exist is an outcome of this randomness, but that doesn't make it probable. It really depends on your perspective. If I bought a lottery ticket it wouldn't make sense to after hearing that the winning numbers aren't mine say "What are the odds of me getting the exact ticket I'm holding in my hands? Whoaaaa." Chaos and probability are separate entities; you cannot mix the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

learn your chaos theory, chaos theory predicts probabilities, hmmm i would say that is a close relationship and that they do mix, but thats just me (note: thats not the best source for learning chaos theory but i am lazy and didn't feel like finding a better one)

[Fluffz]

yea, regarding that 10^40,000, as far as i understood this random number is the chance of a modern form of life to randomly emerge out of a mess of atoms without any physical law applied. If i give you a bag of atoms, a spoon and a single try im quite sure there would be a lot of zeroes.

It means nothing realy. There are 10^10^10 possibilities for an apple to fly around randomly, but there is one possibility left after you apply physics and that is falling down towards gravity.

[Summa]

milosh you say you're misrepresented when you're misrepresenting me?
all i'm saying is that your statistics are null because it is impossible to understand the starting conditions and variables exactly to calculate such a precise or even ball parked number, not to mention the equation for the development of life is beyond comprehension due to an infinite amount of variables. simply put, don't bring statistics that are based on speculation into this. and the rest is me just trying to set your facts straight and open your eyes to other possibilities. quantum theory being one of them. and i take my chaos theory very seriously, please get your facts straight in regards to it

[Money]

so, stark..did your friend enjoy the salsa?

[DoTheFandango]

yeah my bad, i just pasted the same warning to all 3 of you because honestly this thread is a colossal waste of time and i wanted to leave it asap.

i am aware.
hense why i am more focused on MBV then the topic at hand.
so lets move on
pavement / stephen malkmus
do you enjoy?

[Raver420]

[DJ Khaled:]
We the best def jam
I introduce you to Ace
Ace let's get money

[T-Pain & Rick Ross:]
Cash flow... (haha)
It's too easy ***** (bankroll)
We don't count money no mo
We weight that shit

[Adlibs: Rick Ross]
Let's get it...



[Verse: Ace Hood]
Ay knock knock, bang bang
Where the cash at
If u ain't got it leave you bloody like a tampax
Come up swinging at you thugs aflac
Then I fall in the sway black maybach
See I'm back for da money like I left dat
See I be runnin on the route where da cash go (where da cash go)
And any ***** interfering with the cash flow
So he can get pumped on like Citgo
Make his body bounce bounce like a 6 4
Tall clips chrome lips see the big gold
I'm a duffle bag boy like I move coke
Big crack threw tha music so the flow dope
I keep my money ova bitches til da door close
I need money like a bitch need dick mo
I'm tryna c it like a muhfuckin castro
Rubber bands in my pants and a swift bankroll





[Chorus: T-Pain]
One thing about me I don't play about mine
I be bangin on your front door with da nine
I'm a come see ya (see ya)
I'm a come see ya (see ya)
I need all my dough not a dolla short
And if u don't have it den u gotta go
I'm a come see ya(see ya)
(hey hey) We put our hands In da sky let em know dat we bout that
Cash flow... I need it on time I'mTalkin bank roll
(my money my money my money)
Cash flow... I need it on time
I'm talkin bank roll
(my money my money my money...)




Verse: Ace Hood]
And where my money young *****z gotta have that
Rubber bands by the grands in a big bag
Pockets fat like I'm carrying a backpack
A couple grand for the louie band napsack
Understand I'm the man who you can't match
Moneyman minivan full of brown bags
Better grand any man never top that
Cause money and the gat pop those straps
Getting loot in the top drop right back
I ain't playin creep ya avenue and I'll blast
Bust shots like a new year day blast
And I ride all day like a bus pass
Grindin hard for the bread and the cash flow
Kick doors wave 4's where da cash go (where da cash go)
I'm trying to see it like a mutha fuckin castro
Rubber bands in my pants and a swift bankroll

[stark]

so, stark..did your friend enjoy the salsa?

He said it was "not bad," which for him is pretty good. He doesn't eat hamburgers or hotdogs... Generally sticks to chicken.