John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness.

[Zerzera]

Dutch, Sweden, Holland, Finland who the fuck really cares, all those countries are terrible. Unlike a lot of the people who are sitting here trying to argue the state of America with me, I actually live here. I think the fact that I know little about what terrible country invented what terrible furniture company brings about the point that most of you care way too much about what happens in America. I know you all say "we have investments tied up in American markets" Well your socialist countries are the ones to blame for this, you wanted a world market, you want globalization of the world economy, maybe you should learn to keep your terrible ideas in your own country.

So now I am both Liberal and Socialist? That's not possible, you don't even know what these words stand for.

I thought Conservatism was about keeping things the same, keeping the Christian values alive over things as greed and hate. I thought it was about caring for your neighbour as the non-American Jesus told you to.

Liberal is about personal freedoms, like the freedom of not having to pay for your neighbour.

EDIT: I know that it's hard to distinguish all these different political philosophies in a non-democratic country where there are only two parties to harbor them all.

PS. We were arguing without you, you had no reason to mix in.

[Da1andonly]

haha squeezer

[kthx]

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Like we need any more illegal aliens in our country.

FORGED, GG.

[Soilderz]

Dutch, Sweden, Holland, Finland who the fuck really cares, all those countries are terrible. Unlike a lot of the people who are sitting here trying to argue the state of America with me, I actually live here. I think the fact that I know little about what terrible country invented what terrible furniture company brings about the point that most of you care way too much about what happens in America. I know you all say "we have investments tied up in American markets" Well your socialist countries are the ones to blame for this, you wanted a world market, you want globalization of the world economy, maybe you should learn to keep your terrible ideas in your own country.

Lol this is the best I've read, Especially when:

1:Galleleo> Now wark is gonna answer to me or Vihta with something like " Who cares about Europe anyway" "It doesn't matter" "America owns Europe and all those other countries anyway"

Heh, Bullseye

[Noah]

Yeah trolls are boring when they get predictable.

[Zerzera]

I think I'm going to vote Obama, simply because it looks like Congress is poised to be swept up by Democrats - which will mean Obama will have very little resistance in getting his policies implemented. This should set things in pace for a quick and speedy decimation of America.

If Congress swings Republican - then I'll vote McCain. I'm kinda of hoping for this, as McCain will destroy America, but probably manage to take the world with him.

You really seem to have gotten stuck in a bad trip while reading Atlas Shrugged. And you seriously start to scare me.

Her theory doesn't fly, it's very limited to the mindset that people will only act objectively into the direction of a single shared goal -progress of the species. And she disrespects people that only execute labor, a fault that could only be made in a well developed country like America. Like you claimed that the base of socialism (which is in essence the same theory as yours) could only spawn in England at it's prime.
The book is just like the bible, or a cheap roman, it just ends like it's concluded, while it's obviously not.
You see an utopia that you claim to be true, but the fact that you, as a person fail at certain points, is the proof that it doesn't and will never exist.
It's admirable that you think you are heading to becoming perfect -you try to learn every day- but meanwhile there are people who aren't and never will.
You seem to think that mankind will overcome their errors at some point, you even believe that it will happen within a year when the government gets overthrown.
And taking the fact that we can't convince you as a validation of your theory is the same as in any other religion or ideology; we can't prove to anyone God doesn't exist. But we can live in a world that is much more true than yours.

The fact that you need to use drugs, to me, if proof that you are deluding yourself. I don't do drugs and alcohol, I don't smoke, why do you want to limit the time you have on this planet so badly?

[Jerome Scuggs]

all valid points except for the fact that the last time i took objectivism seriously was when i was 17

but anyways what does that have to do with the post you quoted, which was as unrelated to ayn rand as, well, anything you generally say about my posts

seriously it's like if i responded to all of your posts by saying "oh yeah well, incuria will never win TWL"

edit: not to mention, the bible speaks against committing murder - a very good idea regardless of the rest of what's written in the book. are you saying that any idea/book/thought must be taken at whole value - ignoring any good ideas that might appear?

edit 2: and i suppose i should ask if you've even read the book, because i wouldn't put it past you to pull opinions out of your ass that you have no business saying in the first place.

[Zerzera]

all valid points except for the fact that the last time i took objectivism seriously was when i was 17

but anyways what does that have to do with the post you quoted, which was as unrelated to ayn rand as, well, anything you generally say about my posts

seriously it's like if i responded to all of your posts by saying "oh yeah well, incuria will never win TWL"

edit: not to mention, the bible speaks against committing murder - a very good idea regardless of the rest of what's written in the book. are you saying that any idea/book/thought must be taken at whole value - ignoring any good ideas that might appear?

edit 2: and i suppose i should ask if you've even read the book, because i wouldn't put it past you to pull opinions out of your ass that you have no business saying in the first place.

Okay, the total collapse of a civilization so it can make place for an utopia, I just pulled that out of your ass.

I don't see you bringing anything new to the table really, and I have tried to find it in your posts, really, because I put a lot of thought in the ideology.

I came to the conclusion that even if it would all work as perfect as you put it forward (which I am very skeptical about), I wonder if it would make everyone happier. Your argument against my 'I would sit on my own ground and live a happy life' was that I would miss out on the ipods and self-supplying engines or whatever. But how do these material things turn my life into spontaneous happiness?
The world as it is now makes me happy, as it does to many. Just because it frustrates you, doesn't mean it's wrong. Please consider that your perfect world will frustrate just as many people as this world does.

In your world there would be a never ending drive for innovation, and that should satisfy us, but why? What if I want to give most things out of hand to a 'government', so I don't have to be bothered with -to me- trivial issues.
I don't care if people in the government run off with a bigger chunk than they should get from me. I don't mind that they give all the 'cool jobs' to their buddies.
I don't want to have to deal with my neighbor because he wants to run a railroad over my property for the sake of innovation and human gain.
Because that's what will be the case if there's no government, you will have to cooperate on an individual level on everything.

[Jerome Scuggs]

so basically you're concluding that because you don't feel like dealing with issues you might think are complicated, someone else should - but only as long as they have arbitrary coercive power. because cooperating with individuals on everything is a waste of time or in some shape or fashion bad.

it saddens me that your government hasn't figured out a way to do all of your thinking for you, because you're obviously having a tough time with that as well

[Fluffz]

Someone who thinks the goal is a stable system argues vs someone who thinks individual happieness is. Great, you both need to get in touch with reality again because none of you would have ever build pyramids or reached the moon. If any of these lunatic ideologies would have been followed we would still try to capture ants with sticks for breakfast.

[Zerzera]

so basically you're concluding that because you don't feel like dealing with issues you might think are complicated, someone else should - but only as long as they have arbitrary coercive power. because cooperating with individuals on everything is a waste of time or in some shape or fashion bad.

it saddens me that your government hasn't figured out a way to do all of your thinking for you, because you're obviously having a tough time with that as well

Well, last time I checked I didn't vote for you. We did not vote for you to govern us, thank God. You have no clue what a democratic government is, and you probably will never understand.
If you want to specialize in something, you need to give in on other skills, or at least the dealing with these issues. I don't see you growing your own food, but you don't see me crying that you don't know how to supply for your own food, why would you want to waste that time?
But the moment you don't master this skill, you become dependent on the person who supplies you. You might say that whatever you do is worth more, the moment farmers decide not to sell you any food, you could starve.
So you blindly put trust in the farmers, but you despise your politicians. That sounds healthy indeed. (Ever wondered what a farmer would be like if there were no regulations?)

To Fluffz; First of all you don't exactly know the meaning of life either. Secondly I am only hypothetically challenging Jerome's ideology. For the sake of proof or disproof.

[Jerome Scuggs]

You're right, I have absolutely no idea how a democracy works. Why don't you explain it to me? Why don't you define "constitutional limits" and "rule of law" - two concepts which I use to critique your obviously incorrect notion of "democracy"?

Do you seriously think that as an ardent critic of the State that I would not know how it functions? It is precisely because I know, that I criticize it. I haven't always been an anarchist, that came with Ron Paul's losing the nomination and me taking a long, hard look at democracy, government and the rest. After reading up on enough political science, I felt confident in my positions - perhaps a lesson you should learn. You also might want to take a look at "Law, Legislation and Liberty" - a monumental work in that area of study.

And as long as you're having fun being my analytical punching bag - I've got 13 cattle, two goats, a field of corn, a field of jalapenos, and we're going to get around to planting some potatoes as well. I can drive a tractor, drive a bulldozer, herd bulls, and do all sorts of handy-work.

I'm good on food. I rely on other individuals as much as I can, but I invest in my own future - I don't hand it off to someone else. Handing it off to someone else opens you up to a massive chance of loss - so congrats on everyone who was looking to retire on social security and their 401k's, I've got a ranch.

[Zerzera]

if I had to work on a farm in order to make a living, I would have been dead at age 12. Seriously. I'm not cut out for farming.

Yeah sorry for trying to discuss your ideology with you. But I don't think anyone can do everything, no one can master all skills human kind has mastered. You simply don't have the time, so why not depend on people to do something for you? Even govern.

[DankNuggets]

I'm good on food. I rely on other individuals as much as I can, but I invest in my own future - I don't hand it off to someone else. Handing it off to someone else opens you up to a massive chance of loss - so congrats on everyone who was looking to retire on social security and their 401k's, I've got a ranch.

Fuck retirement, were all going to die before the age of 50 anyway what with the world as we know it ending, our superpower status eroding away, and 2012 looming on the horizon. Hell retirees are just sapping us of our hard earned income anyway, fuck 'em. we need to find a new energy source that runs off of old people and back-ups that run on forieners, the poor, and the truely desolute.

[Izor]

I believe in big business and the prosperities it brings to our nation, at least mine. I do believe in regulation however. - Progressive Conservative

I don't believe in a lot of programs for people who can't work, I'm out-right against funding a lot of programs in my country when we have people who live off these programs and have 0 regulation to determine how long they actually need these programs. Once regulation and stricter rules are drawn up then maybe I'd agree it's worth dropping any more money into. - Progressive Conservative

I'm not against students acquiring student debt to go to school, I would be against any socialist idea that would pay for 'everyone' to go to school. I think everyone should have the opportunity to go to school and that debt should be lowered but ultimately there's no such thing as a free education, and you can fuck off if you think you're making me pay for it - Progressive Conservative

America can't pull out of Iraq immediately, there needs to be some sort of system in place to insure the people can run the country themselves. Lowering the amount of troops and replacing them with Iraqi police is the first step. Anyone who says leave Iraq now is a fucking retard and doesn't realize you'd let the country fall apart if you left without some system in place.

I've lived in government housing, and I've seen people that really need it and people who abuse it. I'd argue there's a large majority of both, which is shocking to think that people live on the streets because some asshole abuses government assistance.

You're right about the whole gay marriage issue, it's not a big deal to me. Maybe you're uncomfortable being around gay people, I really don't see the issue, it's how I was raised. I think our environments and parents influenced in two separate ways, one never told us it was wrong and the other probably did.

It's funny how you two dip shits can claim my views are unbiased and driven by liberal media when it's my views, not yours that cross party lines.

If you have as many conservative views as you claim to, you should be wishing that mccain would win, because he comes the closest to the ideals you just spoke of. Obama wants to rape big businesses. Clearly something you claim to be against. Regulation is something that can be good in moderation, but Obama wants the government to be in charge of a lot more than it should. You're against the Iraq war and have said so in previous posts. Now you're flip-flopping and saying we cant leave to suit your argument.

I truly dont think you believe anything you just said. You're just saying it to act like you're not a liberal. Do you really manage to convince yourself that you havent been influenced by the media? What DO you agree on Obama with?

To that other newbie yes I watch Fox News. I also watch cnn and msnbc though. It doesnt matter though, because every time I watch cnn and msnbc I get tired quickly of how they spin everything in obamas favor. I've said this before and I'm getting pretty tired of what the media is doing for this election. This last presidential debate for instance. I watched cnn at the med clinic, and they were 'grading' the candidates. McCain received a score of something like 2.2 while Obama got a 3.4. They then went on to report that neither candidate looked definitively better than the other and neither truly 'won' the debate. If this were the case why would you write mccain down so badly?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...owd/index.html

Is this even a relevant story?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...ges/index.html

More fodder to try and sway conservatives to vote Obama

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...rap/index.html

This would appear to be a story about Obama's ties with terrorists, but instead the last couple paragraphs include a 'fact check' that discredits the whole story. Speaking of fact checks:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ry/fact-check/

The overwhelming majority paint McCain to be a liar and Obama to be saying nothing but truth. Well, actually while what McCain says is 'Misleading' which implies its a lie. When Obama says something similar, its 'True, but incomplete' implying hes really coming close to the truth.

Bottom line with that is that you're going to believe what you want. Some people here probably truly do believe every story there and that all of those points are valid. Of course you do, because you're voting for Obama. This guy must never tell a lie or do anything dirty. He can bring up all the things from McCains past without any second questions, but if McCain's camp calls him a terrorist hes 'getting desperate because the cnn poll of polls has him down X points'. I'm just going to put it out there that there is no way with these 2 candidates that either one of them looks that good by comparison to the other. I am having a very difficult time finding ANY article on cnn that makes the GOP look good. The bias is ridiculous. While fox news may lean the other way, the extent of it is not nearly as bad as the liberal media stations. I still see good articles about Obama on foxnews just like I see good articles about McCain, but that still doesnt make them 'fair and balanced'. They just dont play one side and one side only