John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness.

[Liquid Blue]

The conversation started about raising money for homeless shelters, not curing the homeless epidemic. It's silly how topics get twisted to the extreme just so people can claim a point or derail when they have nothing positive to add.

You're confusing three separate types of people: the homeless, the unemployed, and criminals. Homeless people can be employed, criminals can have homes.

What about those who are sick? Those who are hungry? Shouldn't we feed, clothe, heal and shelter everyone who deserves it?

Large percentages of all three could help our economy if jobs were available to them though. New programs and jobs simply need to be planned out and created, as well as creating the opportunity for those people to apply for said jobs.

There are always going to be homeless people, unemployed people, and criminals. As long as our society continues along the way it's going (and I don't see any drastic changes coming anytime soon), then we will always have all three. That does not mean, that the percentages of the population that fit into these three categories have to remain at such a high number.


Everyone has a talent, a skill set or a technical skill that they can learn, to benefit the society and economy. We simply need a system which can easily narrow down the ways they can contribute the most and lead them down the correct paths.

[404 Not Found]

The conversation started about raising money for homeless shelters, not curing the homeless epidemic. It's silly how topics get twisted to the extreme just so people can claim a point or derail when they have nothing positive to add.

I somewhat agree..but in noting the Topic:

"John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness"

There is not one word of mention about the homeless on the 1st page and shows up on the 2nd page in noting homless and welfare looking ppl at the DNC.

I think you may be off the center of what the topic is about as well in derailing things. The points you make on the homeless is a fringe point of which I personally think holds little merit to the topic and the election in general regarding the two candidates.

Many of the homeless btw are not homeless because they are just SOL, but rather that they have mental problems and or are junkies. Many that are mentally ill are on med's and just do not take them or have no money anymore to get them, so we end up with that breed of homeless. How do you force someone to stay on their med's? You can't unless you put them away in a State run home of which no longer really exists in the US.

[Squeezer]

Then what prevents the same sort of thing from affecting any new programs?

I think homelessness is inevitable - unless natural disasters and war etc stop - but it shouldn't be as widespread as it is today. Of course, I have my theories as to why...

Maybe our policies are always doomed to fail.

That doesn't mean we should quit trying new and more sound approaches based on the information we gain over time.

[Liquid Blue]

I somewhat agree..but in noting the Topic:

"John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness"

There is not one word of mention about the homeless on the 1st page and shows up on the 2nd page in noting homless and welfare looking ppl at the DNC.

I think you may be off the center of what the topic is about as well in derailing things. The points you make on the homeless is a fringe point of which I personally think holds little merit to the topic and the election in general regarding the two candidates.

Many of the homeless btw are not homeless because they are just SOL, but rather that they have mental problems and or are junkies. Many that are mentally ill are on med's and just do not take them or have no money anymore to get them, so we end up with that breed of homeless. How do you force someone to stay on their med's? You can't unless you put them away in a State run home of which no longer really exists in the US.

We were originally talking about taxes. It somehow escalated from "raising money for homeless shelters" as a tax option, to "completely getting rid of the homeless epidemic", which is overblown and off the point. I agree that constantly talking about homeless people would be moot and off topic, but taxes in an election topic hardly seems like a "fringe point".

[HateTheFake]

We were originally talking about taxes. It somehow escalated from "raising money for homeless shelters" as a tax option, to "completely getting rid of the homeless epidemic", which is overblown and off the point. I agree that constantly talking about homeless people would be moot and off topic, but taxes in an election topic hardly seems like a "fringe point".

this, i was simply stating i would like something to be said or done on this topic. As of right now neither candidate has spoken out on the homeless.

[Summa]

Maybe our policies are always doomed to fail.

That doesn't mean we should quit trying new and more sound approaches based on the information we gain over time.

Well that's what happens when you have to constantly compromise. Any good idea has to get watered down to essentially useless shit for it to be bipartisan enough to pass. We should really just stop riding the fence and pick a side. Or maybe its just because our country is too full of apathetic people. Take 9/11, I don't run into very many people who are outwardly still pissed about it or really have great convictions about dealing justice. Now let's take pearl harbor, my grandpa is coming up on 80 and he still hates japanese people outwardly for Pearl Harbor. Maybe there's just too much apathy nowadays.


On a completely unrelated note, Jerome is starting to sound more and more like a socialists on this page....:S

[D1st0rt]

As this election draws closer, I find myself feeling more and more that I don't want either of these clowns running my country.

Anybody else?

[Vykromond]

As this election draws closer, I find myself feeling more and more that I don't want either of these clowns running my country.

Anybody else?

i started out being fairly negative on both of them but now i dunno, i think i'd be OK with obama. i don't like his positions on some things (gay marriage, pakistan, russia, FISA) and in general his economic policy is hit or miss, but he's not so bad. mccain is pretty bad.

also looking over my state's ballot and the other candidates, none of the 3rd party options seem any better than obama really.

so i might vote for obama maybe

[kthx]

i started out being fairly negative on both of them but now i dunno, i think i'd be OK with obama. i don't like his positions on some things (gay marriage, pakistan, russia, FISA) and in general his economic policy is hit or miss, but he's not so bad. mccain is pretty bad.

also looking over my state's ballot and the other candidates, none of the 3rd party options seem any better than obama really.

so i might vote for obama maybe

And what exactly is his economic policy... its hilarious people always say "Obama is better on the economy" because that is what they hear on the news 24/7 but what legislation has he actually passed to make you think that his economic policy would be better than McCain's? Especially considering two of Obama's financial advisors are also waist-deep in the mortgage and financial sector failures.

[DoTheFandango]

oh man

up 7.5%, with +14% in favorable ratings.

just a man with something to prove
slightly bored and severely confusedddd

[Jerome Scuggs]

ron paul just got added to the louisiana ballot so i'm going to vote for him

apparently he was blocked from being represented because they weren't able to register him in time. they weren't able to register in time because, oh i dunno, HURRICANE FUCKING GUSTAV, and initially the gubmint was like "well that sucks for you"

edit: i know the homeless thing was pretty offtopic, but here's something i found interesting: while you are all of course semi-well-versed on the study of "market failure", mainstream economists are beginning to see the logic and usefulness of the heterodox economics i study. this has blossomed into the study of "
government failure". this has nothing to do with ANARCHY!!, it's actually a very salient topic that should be discussed more than it is, since the common consensus seems to be "if the market 'fails', then use government" - as if government intervention itself doesn't pose problems.

[raizin]

ron paul just got added to the louisiana ballot so i'm going to vote for him

apparently he was blocked from being represented because they weren't able to register him in time. they weren't able to register in time because, oh i dunno, HURRICANE FUCKING GUSTAV, and initially the gubmint was like "well that sucks for you"

edit: i know the homeless thing was pretty offtopic, but here's something i found interesting: while you are all of course semi-well-versed on the study of "market failure", mainstream economists are beginning to see the logic and usefulness of the heterodox economics i study. this has blossomed into the study of "
government failure". this has nothing to do with ANARCHY!!, it's actually a very salient topic that should be discussed more than it is, since the common consensus seems to be "if the market 'fails', then use government" - as if government intervention itself doesn't pose problems.

Fuck the homeless, espescially if they have the time to make this many signs. Picture taken out of todays Seattle P.I.

[Vykromond]

And what exactly is his economic policy...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/ if you actually care

[Izor]

- Create a Universal Mortgage Credit: Obama and Biden will create a 10 percent universal mortgage credit to provide homeowners who do not itemize tax relief. This credit will provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year.

Cause I love giving money to people who bought a house they couldnt afford.

- Cap Outlandish Interest Rates on Payday Loans and Improve Disclosure: Obama and Biden will extend a 36 percent interest cap to all Americans. They will require lenders to provide clear and simplified information about loan fees, payments and penalties, which is why they'll require lenders to provide this information during the application process

Seriously, payday loans? People still use these after knowing how terrible they are? Even 'fixing' them wont fix the underlying problem of people - just punish a business that makes profit off of idiots.

- Encourage States to Adopt Paid Leave: As president, Obama will initiate a strategy to encourage all 50 states to adopt paid-leave systems. Obama and Biden will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers.

Another waste of my money.

- Protect Against Caregiver Discrimination: Workers with family obligations often are discriminated against in the workplace. Obama and Biden will enforce the recently-enacted Equal Employment Opportunity Commission guidelines on caregiver discrimination.

Why, as a businessman, would I hire someone who has to considerable amount of work when I could hire someone who is reliable? Explain the common sense, in terms other than "well what if it were you or someone you know?"

- Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.

Something else I'm never in favor of...everything will just increase in price

- Protect Striking Workers: Obama and Biden support the right of workers to bargain collectively and strike if necessary. They will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers, so workers can stand up for themselves without worrying about losing their livelihoods.

If someone else is willing to do the job....

- Deploy Next-Generation Broadband: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we can get broadband to every community in America through a combination of reform of the Universal Service Fund, better use of the nation's wireless spectrum, promotion of next-generation facilities, technologies and applications, and new tax and loan incentives.

This isnt a small country where this is feasible. While I like the prospect of having broadband everywhere, I see no reason to waste money on this. I still think this is just another empty promise though.

- End Tax Breaks for Companies that Send Jobs Overseas:

know where we would be if we didnt outsource shit?

I would very much like to know how Obama plans on getting all this money he plans on spending, because all I see here is tax cut tax cut tax cut spend spend spend spend spend. Taxing the rich a little bit more is offset by giving a break to the middle class and you still wont have enough money for all this

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Cause I love giving money to people who bought a house they couldnt afford.

Do you own a house?

Another waste of my money.

Paid leave is a waste of money? Compared to what? For a country that's supposed to care about "family values," why wouldn't there be a situation to help those with seriously ill family members, or those having a baby? What's wrong about funding this?

This isnt a small country where this is feasible. While I like the prospect of having broadband everywhere, I see no reason to waste money on this. I still think this is just another empty promise though.

I agree that this isn't an incredibly high priority in the grand scheme, but you're buying into a myth perpetuated by the big telcos and "media" companies. Urban (and suburban) ultra-high speed broadband is quite doable if we made a halfway intelligent attempt at implementing it. Rural coverage could be done with wireless meshes. The possibilities are very real, and in most cases, not prohibitively expensive.