Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • RE: Bill Ayers

    I'll be honest, I hadn't read much about Bill Ayers before you had mentioned him. It was one of those things that was always ancillary to any conversations I'd been a part of, and I hadn't really cared enough to look it up. And when you name-dropped him, I halfway expected to find a hulking, brutish man who preyed on little old ladies and handicapped children.

    I should have known better.

    After reading up a bit on his background, I've come to find that Bill Ayers is just a man with strong convictions who did some pretty misguided shit when he was younger. Oh, did I mention the worst thing that he did was back in the 70's? When he was in his late twenties and early thirties? You know, back around the time the US was involved in another protracted foreign war?

    For the uninitiated, Bill Ayers was an academic who believed in some pretty "radical" things, like stressing cooperation rather than competition in classrooms. He protested an Ann Arbor, MI pizzeria for refusing to seat African Americans in 1965. He protested the Vietnam draft, like many others of the era.

    He's been quoted as saying,
    "How will you live your life so that it doesn't make a mockery of your values?"

    What a monster! Now, for the sake of full disclosure, he became a pseudo-militant who believed (at the time) that violence was the best means of putting an end to the Vietnam War. He helped blow up a statue, and was planning other acts of directly targeted violence. So yes, I guess if you want to use the very literal definition of the word "terrorism," what he was involved with was in fact, terrorism. Then again, by that same definition, so were a LOT of people of that generation.

    You know who else would be described as a terrorist using this same template? John Hancock. John Adams. Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, etc etc etc.

    Now before you get all crazy, my dad is a veteran of the Vietnam war. He enlisted. He still carries around shrapnel in his knee. He's a great man who instilled in both his sons the ability to make informed decisions, a sense of family and community, and maybe most importantly, the desire to educate ourselves and become "better" than the generations preceeding us. He grew up on a farm in northern Iowa, was the first of his family to graduate college, became a distinguished professor of engineering, and still spends a great deal of time at speaking engagements around the world (though retired from teaching). He's brilliant, shrewd, compassionate, and he cares deeply about both his family and his country. I'm not a guy who's going to harp on and on about how Vietnam was a disaster, but I know enough to differentiate the very political means of the war from the sons and daughters of this country who fought in it.

    But whatever, let's get back to Bill Ayers. To continue the story for those who still care enough to read this, he went "underground" in 1970 after he and some of his group (the Weatherman, or Weather Underground as it later came to be known) botched building a few bombs in Greenwich Village and blew themselves up (killing a few members of the group). He was later indicted on federal charges. He was on the run for a few years until the federal charges were dropped due to prosecutorial misconduct, after which he and his wife both turned themselves in.

    He later penned a memoir called Fugitive Days, in which he recounted his days with the WU and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). Unfortunately, it was published right around (you guessed it!) the tragedy in New York City in 2001. The book was immediately used as a textbook example of "homegrown terrorism" (HIDE YOUR CHILDREN! BURN THE BOOK!), even after Mr. Ayers himself explained that while he couldn't take back what he did, it was a different time and that he condemned the September 11th attacks. He's also made statements, referring to the former actions of the groups he was involved with, such as:

    "(I was) embarrassed by the arrogance, the solipsism, the absolute certainty that we and we alone knew the way. The rigidity and the narcissism." (Reference)

    In other words, he's become the unfortunate poster boy for a nation which was now deathly concerned that the person standing next to them was strapped with a couple pounds of C4. Oh, did I mention that Mr. Ayers is now a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois in Chicago? Sounds like someone who needs a good arresting!

    But even if you still think the guy is some sort of terrible monster, the link between Obama and Bill Ayers is tenuous at best. The both served on the Woods Fund Board from 1999 until Obama left in 2002. They had slight contact as residents of Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. They've appeared on education panels together, and Bill Ayers donated $200 to Obama's campaign in April 2001. If that's what comprises an evil collusion, I'm not quite sure what couldn't be described as one.

    So thanks for nudging me to do a little bit of my own footwork, wark. I can now throw Bill Ayers/Obama talk in the Fox News bin, along with other pieces of trash like "Obama's a muslim! All muslims want to kill you and rape your virginal butthole!"

    Ridiculous, man.

    Those references to McCain's acquaintances are coming soon. And I guarantee they've said things a whole lot worse, and a whole lot more recently.
    Music and medicine, I'm living in a place where they overlap.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Zerzera View Post
      Figures please? Since what day China became top oil consumer, because I am quite sure that China's industry still mainly runs on coal. Just like the mayority of households there still run on coal.
      go to google.com and type in "china top oil consumer" it will save you the trouble of having me do it for you

      Originally posted by Fit of Rage View Post
      Which is all the more reason we should be investing in alternative energy NOW, not 10 or 20 years from now.
      it's already being done. companies aren't waiting for another government-led fuckup like ethanol, the reason you don't hear about new alt. fuel development is because there's not a magic panacea... by the time it becomes an issue we will have many potential solutions instead of one or a few. have patience because, you know, solving the global energy crisis doesn't take a few weeks, no matter how obama and mccain choose to believe otherwise
      NOSTALGIA IN THE WORST FASHION

      internet de la jerome

      because the internet | hazardous

      Comment


      • RE: John McCain's personal and political affiliations

        + Rev. Rod Parsley, "spiritual guide" for the GOP presidential nominee. (AKA, One more reason to love Ohio!)
        - Planned Parenthood is the equivalent of the KKK and the Nazis rolled into one!
        - Excerpt from his 2005 book, Silent No More: "The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore."
        - Direct quote from a sermon: "The secular media never likes it when I say this, so let me say it twice. Man your battle stations! Ready your weapons! They say this rhetoric is so inciting. I came to incite a riot. ... Man your battle stations. Ready your weapons. Lock and load — for the thirty, forty liberal pastors who filed against our ministry with the Internal Revenue Service. ... Let the struggle begin. Let it begin in your heart today with a shout unto him who has called us to war — not only that, he has empowered you and I to win."

        + Rev. John Hagee, proudly introduced as an ally in early March 2008
        - "God will unleash terrorists on the US for its Israel/Palestine policy of land sharing!"
        - One of my personal "batshit insane" favorites, John Hagee on "the gays":
        "All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are — were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans." (Hahahaha, "a level of sexuality never demonstrated before"... NOW YOU WILL WITNESS THE POWER OF THIS FULLY OPERATIONAL BATTLESTATION!)

        The list can keep going, if you'd like. These are just a couple of the most vocal ones.

        EDIT: Haha, more about Rod Parsley's "gay agenda"! I can personally feel my marriage being destroyed! Damn you, Ted Allen! Damn yoooooouuuuuuu!
        Last edited by ConcreteSchlyrd; 09-02-2008, 01:14 PM.
        Music and medicine, I'm living in a place where they overlap.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs View Post
          go to google.com and type in "china top oil consumer" it will save you the trouble of having me do it for you
          Please show me the figures and source, I am very dim. I never used Google before
          You ate some priest porridge

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs View Post
            by the time it becomes an issue we will have many potential solutions instead of one or a few.
            Wouldn't approaching or going beyond peak oil be that "issue"? Shouldn't this have been an issue for the 1980s, 1990s? Business has its part to play and keeping alternative fuel a non-issue.

            Comment


            • I thought that Obama supported nuclear? At least that's what he said in his speech, although he could have just been lying.

              And wasn't the USA founded by the values of the Enlightenment? I mean sure, a lot of the founders were Christian, but it was the values of the enlightenment that were more important, especially to people like Jefferson.
              Epinephrine's History of Trench Wars:
              www.geocities.com/epinephrine.rm

              My anime blog:
              www.animeslice.com

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kolar View Post
                Wouldn't approaching or going beyond peak oil be that "issue"? Shouldn't this have been an issue for the 1980s, 1990s? Business has its part to play and keeping alternative fuel a non-issue.
                You're assuming that since some undefined period of time, there as been a universal goalpost of oil independence - it doesn't exist, i've tried looking in more dimensions than you can fathom. Oil independence isn't an entitlement and hell, it would be science fiction if it weren't for business.

                Don't blame them for getting into the game late, the government can't even choose what colors to pick for its team jersey.

                It's not a gift from god or an entitlement. If you're gonna blame businesses then I'm going to blame you for not caring enough to change your consumption habits in the 1980's/1990's, and I'm going to blame scientists for not coming up with the incredible science that is leading this tech revolution soon enough.

                First you blame them for being greedy, now you blame them for not being good enough. The ironic thing is, the former is what led to many of the causes of the latter in terms of government regulation. You can't have your cake and eat it too -generally in order to innovate you need capital. You can't demand innovation while taking capital.
                NOSTALGIA IN THE WORST FASHION

                internet de la jerome

                because the internet | hazardous

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Zerzera View Post
                  Please show me the figures and source, I am very dim. I never used Google before
                  https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2174rank.html

                  guess what, the US is on top by a long shot. the stats are a bit outdated, but there haven't been huge changes in the last year.


                  fun statistics that say a lot more about the current state of the US:

                  https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2187rank.html

                  edit:
                  oh ps zerz. you're right on the coal consumption.
                  http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/China/Coal.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs View Post
                    it's already being done. companies aren't waiting for another government-led fuckup like ethanol, the reason you don't hear about new alt. fuel development is because there's not a magic panacea... by the time it becomes an issue we will have many potential solutions instead of one or a few. have patience because, you know, solving the global energy crisis doesn't take a few weeks, no matter how obama and mccain choose to believe otherwise
                    Well of course it's not going to happen in a few weeks. It's going to take billions of dollars and at least a decade before we get a serious infrastructure set up. I'm talking long term here.

                    And what do you mean "by the time it becomes an issue?" For me and quite a few other people, energy is my #1 issue for this election, followed by the economy and Iraq.
                    5:royst> i was junior athlete of the year in my school! then i got a girlfriend
                    5:the_paul> calculus is not a girlfriend
                    5:royst> i wish it was calculus

                    1:royst> did you all gangbang my gf or something

                    1:fermata> why dont you get money fuck bitches instead

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Epinephrine View Post
                      I thought that Obama supported nuclear? At least that's what he said in his speech, although he could have just been lying.

                      And wasn't the USA founded by the values of the Enlightenment? I mean sure, a lot of the founders were Christian, but it was the values of the enlightenment that were more important, especially to people like Jefferson.
                      Jefferson and Washington politically are the complete opposites of what the U.S. government would be based upon.

                      Of what Jefferson wanted in a government was to stay out of everyone’s business and not to create and use government for taxes, trade & a federal banking and military.

                      Washington was advised by the likes of Alexander Hamilton, of who was for trade, banking & one uniform national currency, a National Military and created the foundations of today’s NYSE.

                      If people really want to understand the basic foundations of the structure in which the U.S. Government was launched under the 1st President George Washington, they really need to read the Federalist Papers; written by Alexander Hamilton, James Jay & James Madison. For the flip side of these papers, there was the Anti-Federalist Papers. In contrast to Hamilton, Madison and Jay who supported ratification of the Constitution of the United States, Anti-federalist writers were nonetheless articulate. Serious questions were raised which eventually led to some of the Federalist writings that served as answers to allegations of the Anti-federalists.

                      The blueprint of the U.S. Constitution, of which probably 99% of the U.S. citizens on this forum have never heard of or possibly have, but never read these articles should be a must read for anyone spouting out about the U.S. foundations of government. Most citizens in the U.S. alone with college educations never have heard or read these articles and yet the can claim knowledge of this and that about the constitution.

                      So as far as the foundations of which the U.S. had been established as, "Values of the Enlightenment" is a vague sense of the times and deliberations of which transpired to bring about a unified constitution for a new country.

                      It is a good read, and I highly recommend both articles, be it the Federalists or Anti-Federalists.

                      It really add's light on how much of a scumbag John Adam's was and how if not for Hamilton smearing the name of Adam's, due to Hamiltons dislike for both Adams & Jefferson...he chose Jefferson as the lesser of the two evils, Jefferson would never have been the 3rd U.S. president and 1st Republican President if not for Hamilton...not to forget that Adam's was the last Federalist to hold office of Presidency.

                      I find these articles to be a fantastic read. You definitely will not learn half of this history from your history classes in High School or basic College history classes.
                      May your shit come to life and kiss you on the face.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dabram View Post
                        fun statistics that say a lot more about the current state of the US:

                        https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2187rank.html
                        Breaking News: The United States has massive national debt!

                        Also just in - The Sun: Still very, VERY hot!
                        Last edited by Pearl Jam; 09-02-2008, 03:14 PM.
                        PLEASE, DON'T BE MISGUIDED...YA BITIN'. AND I'MA HAVE TA DIS YA, UNDERSTAND MISTA?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs View Post
                          I'm not saying energy independence can or cannot be accomplished, I don't know enough about it. But it seems like both politics and business have no concern for the reality of peak oil and the need for new technology. I never said either side deserves more blame. You are right to accomplish even some kind of change in energy policy and innovation in the entire sector it will require a lot of support.

                          But given the profitability of the oil sector in recent years I would propose it is not worth their time and money to invest in revolutionary technologies, that while they hold the key to modern day transportation in the form of fossil fuels and continue to reap huge profits from that preferred setup, little change will happen until we hit a real gas crunch. There has to be some kind of short term incentive to avert that scenario and a long term goal based on current and near future technology.

                          Edit2: I'll save you the time Jerome, you believe the market will balance out eventually without interference and I get that. I believe incentives can steer the market in a better direction for the general public. We're not going to agree on it.

                          Edit: I finished watching the HBO miniseries 'John Adams', I don't know how historically accurate it is but it seems to cast Hamilton as more of a "scheming" nefarious character. It does also highlight Adams success in remaining neutral in the war between Britain and France but also his own character and political failings.
                          Last edited by Kolar; 09-02-2008, 09:26 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Hold up hold up.. this is amazing conc, honestly. I had some respect for you and at least thought that you were an intelligent person, or sounded like it from what I have read, and your arguments. But your post about Ayres is ridiculous to say the least.

                            So your saying that.. If we arrested Osama Bin Laden, and he somehow won his case against being a terrorist, yet went on to confess everything that he did, or tried to do that you wouldn't find it to be a problem if McCain had gone to him before he sought the office of President of the United States, and had served on a board with him? What about if Osama Bin Laden was a highly respected professor at a college in Chicago, and had since given up his ways of trying to destroy the infidels? The guy was trying to blow shit up, and kill people, to get what he wanted. And it honestly sounds like you don't have a problem with, whether it was 30 or 40 years ago or not.


                            Kolar.. who is making all these massive amounts of money. Big Oil Execs?

                            Even as their overall profits have soared, major oil companies are earning a relatively modest 8.7 percent profit margin nearly half that of pharmaceutical companies. -msnbc

                            But the interview with Charles Gibson on ABC, and they write this up at the ABC website: "ExxonMobil CEO and chairman Rex Tillerson defended his company's staggering $11.7 billion in profits for the second quarter, saying that the company's earnings reflected the magnitude of its business operation. 'I saw someone characterize our profits the other day in terms of $1,400 in profit per second. Well, they also need to understand we paid $4,000 a second in taxes, and we spent $15,000 a second in cost,' Tillerson told ABC News' Charles Gibson. 'We spend $1 billion a day just running our business. So this is a business where large numbers are just characteristic of it.'" So they're starting to do a little bit better on their own PR.

                            One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:

                            Solvents; Diesel; Motor Oil; Bearing Grease; Ink; Floor Wax; Ballpoint Pens; Football Cleats; Upholstery; Sweaters; Boats; Insecticides; Bicycle Tires; Sports Car Bodies; Nail Polish; Fishing lures;Dresses; Tires; Golf Bags; Perfumes; Cassettes; Dishwasher; Tool Boxes; Shoe Polish; Motorcycle; Helmet; Caulking; Petroleum Jelly; Transparent Tape; CD Player; Faucet Washers; Antiseptics; Clothesline; Curtains; Food Preservatives; Basketballs; Soap; Vitamin Capsules; Antihistamines; Purses; Shoes; Dashboards; Cortisone; Deodorant; Footballs; Putty; Dyes; panty Hose; Refrigerant; Percolators; Life Jackets; Rubbing Alcohol; Water purification filters; Linings; Skis TV Cabinets; Shag Rugs; Wiring insulation; Electrician's Tape; Tool Racks; Car Battery Cases; Epoxy; Paint; Mops; Slacks; Insect Repellent; Oil Filters; Umbrellas; Yarn; Fertilizers; Hair Coloring; Roofing; Toilet Seats; Fishing Rods; Lipstick; Denture Adhesive; Linoleum; Ice Cube Trays; Synthetic Rubber; Speakers; Plastic Wood; Electric Blankets; Glycerin; Tennis Rackets; Rubber Cement; Fishing Boots; Nylon Rope; Candles; Trash Bags; House Paint; Water Pipes; Hand Lotion; Roller Skates; Surf Boards; Shampoo; Wheels; Paint Rollers; Shower Curtains; Guitar Strings; Luggage; Aspirin; Safety Glasses; Antifreeze; Football Helmets; Awnings; Eyeglasses; Clothes; Toothbrushes; Ice Chests; Combs; CD's; Paint Brushes; Detergents; Vaporizers; Balloons; Sun Glasses; Tents; Heart Valves; Crayons; Parachutes; Medical equipment; Telephones; Enamel; Pillows; Dishes; Cameras; Anesthetics; Artificial Turf; Artificial limbs; Bandages; Dentures; Folding Doors; Hair Curlers; Cold cream; Movie film; Soft Contact lenses; Drinking Cups; Fan Belts; Car Enamel; Shaving Cream; Ammonia; Refrigerators; Golf Balls; Toothpaste; Gasoline

                            This is why we can't just find a new magical source of energy, we will ALWAYS need petroleum.

                            Zerz/Dab - You are both almost right about the coal consumption, almost being the key here. A lot of countries are going back to using coal because it is more plentiful, cheaper, and cleaner than oil. If you take a look at the
                            middle eastern countries who have all this oil, look around at what type of power plants they are building. I am sure both China and Russia, and through McCain anyways, America will all be going the clean coal route soon enough. Along with nuclear of course.

                            Fit of Rage -- Well of course it's not going to happen in a few weeks. It's going to take billions of dollars and at least a decade before we get a serious infrastructure set up. I'm talking long term here.

                            And what do you mean "by the time it becomes an issue?" For me and quite a few other people, energy is my #1 issue for this election, followed by the economy and Iraq.
                            So you are agreeing, that America can't last a decade without relying on oil to fuel our economy and supply us the energy we need, so why vote for Obama when he is against the production of oil? Wouldn't you rather have oil right now and then slowly switch over to something else when it becomes available. Trying to take away oil overnight will KILL America. Want to know another reason under Obama the economy will collapse... he doesn't support growth in the private sector of business, all these new supposed green jobs he is going to be giving people are going to be run by the government, and I think we can all agree that the government is useless at spending money. Especially with the recent "mortgage save" idiocy. As far as Iraq, don't you understand that it isn't just about saving them. I might sound cold by saying this, but we need a bitch in the middle east, where we can build missile defense systems, and set up as a base of operations just in case one of the countries over there decide to go nuclear on us, or Israel.
                            Rabble Rabble Rabble

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kthx View Post
                              Kolar.. who is making all these massive amounts of money. Big Oil Execs?
                              You know the answer so why ask?

                              Originally posted by kthx
                              'I saw someone characterize our profits the other day in terms of $1,400 in profit per second. Well, they also need to understand we paid $4,000 a second in taxes....
                              Do I need to quote the formula for net profit?

                              Comment


                              • It must be a luxury to be able to genuinely see things as completely black and white as wark does.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X