Canadian Gov't falls?

[H.M.S. Stargazer]

Some of you may not have heard...the conservative canadian gov't is about to be defeated in parliament by a coalition gov't. My question is this:

Does anyone really care now?

We JUST had an election 6 weeks ago. We also had the lowest voter turnout ever. The voter apathy is growing exponetially. If The liberal/NDP gov't takes over. Will it actually matter?

Michelle Jean has an interesting choice ahead of her. Will she allow the coalition government to form? Or will she send us back to the polls ONCE again.

I for one, am tired of the government. I think its time we as canadians just put a majority in.. and be done with it. For the last several years we've dealt with minority this and Stronger mandate that. Just give someone the power to RUN the country and hope for the best.

[Kolar]

A Liberal/NDP coalition would probably not last long but I don't think the Conservatives played their hand well in the past few weeks. In the middle of an global economic crisis instead of working with the opposition as they said they would, they first put off any kind of stimulus package until the end of January or later, bug the NDP's caucus meeting and act as if it's somehow not illegal or politically-dirty, and finally attempt to kill public financing which all opposition parties rely on most 2/3 for their budgets since the Conservatives reduced the amount a private citizen can contribute.

[2kill]

the thing about putting off the stimulus package. is its delaying it till we know what barack is going to do in the states since he doesn't get in till the 20th and the conservatives are putting out the budget on the 27th of jan (I would have perfered the early feb. budget they were going to do but they have to act to keep the libs and NDP out)... they have already been stimuleting the econemy with tax cuts... and even if stephen harper didn't see how bad it was going to get and how fast he did say it was coming along with lots of other econemists... stimulus packages are best if they are before the downturn and during the downturn. this means they need to come up with another I think but they should continue to do what they did like buying the mortages of the banks (and not what England did in nationizing the banks). the mortages can then be sold later after the downturn for either the same price or for a PROFIT.

about the public financing... it was mean and I bet they were thinking about bankrupting their oppenants but the public financing was put in to stop the union and companys from donating huge amounts... they are only allowed like $1100 now? not sure but its way smaller then when public financing started. now they should have tryed to do it at a different time but nobody perfect <_<

bah bit of a essay but what can I do? '

in summery. I vote Conservatives and don't want another election and well the Conservatives have perhaps oversteped what they should have done... they have tried to find come ground by dropping the public financing issue and allowing public strikes. but the libs and NDP will not be happy till they pump money into the system with a shotgun... this is the NDP that wanted to reinstate the corporate tax cut. and the liberals that wanted to charge a carben tax on everything but gasoline (which is another stupid thing) these people should not be runing a goverment during a downturn

2kill

[Kolar]

they have already been stimuleting the econemy with tax cuts... and even if stephen harper didn't see how bad it was going to get and how fast he did say it was coming along with lots of other econemists... stimulus packages are best if they are before the downturn and during the downturn. this means they need to come up with another I think but they should continue to do what they did like buying the mortages of the banks (and not what England did in nationizing the banks). the mortages can then be sold later after the downturn for either the same price or for a PROFIT.

Arguably the Brits got a better deal with the banks then we or the US are getting. We shouldn't be giving out massive low interest loans or buying extremely risky assets that won't in a reasonable time-frame benefit the tax payer. There's also a big difference between a state retaining a share of a company and having that company become "nationalized". Buying "toxic" assets off the banks and other institution has proven to be ineffective in the US. Direct loans have also done little to free up credit. What we need to do here is somehow soften the blow to manufacturing and other industries while pushing investment into renewable technology. Not cutting billions of dollars out of Government coffers with a 1% or 2% reduction in the GST (which does absolutely nothing to help middle or lower class Canadians) especially when we're looking at a recession and the possibility of running a deficit.

There's no excuse for attacking the public financing system. Not when the Liberals, NDP and Bloc rely on the system for something like 2/3rds of their campaign and operating expenses and the Conservatives use it for roughly 35%, and then turn around and call it leading by example. It was a clear attempt by Harper to all but kill the opposition. This isn't an act of a democratically elected Government, a Conservative majority would be a fucking nightmare.

I don't see them finding any common ground with the opposition on anything. Not 6 weeks after the election they pull all this crap again thinking they can rule like a majority. Finding common ground starts before you begin your partisan politics, dropping it after you've been politically wounded and in danger of collapsing your own Government is just fucking smart. It doesn't mean they won't try again.

[Wage]

is harper doing somthing that wrong for him to get overthrown.?
i don't really see a big problem with what he is doing

[2kill]

Arguably the Brits got a better deal with the banks then we or the US are getting. We shouldn't be giving out massive low interest loans or buying extremely risky assets that won't in a reasonable time-frame benefit the tax payer. There's also a big difference between a state retaining a share of a company and having that company become "nationalized". Buying "toxic" assets off the banks and other institution has proven to be ineffective in the US. Direct loans have also done little to free up credit. What we need to do here is somehow soften the blow to manufacturing and other industries while pushing investment into renewable technology. Not cutting billions of dollars out of Government coffers with a 1% or 2% reduction in the GST (which does absolutely nothing to help middle or lower class Canadians) especially when we're looking at a recession and the possibility of running a deficit.

okay arguably... but I'm arguing that they did'nt lol and we are talking about the Government they have no short "time-frame" that it has to come in by. the brits bought 51% of the banks making them majoriaty shareholders... thats nationalizen plain and simple. also it hasn't proven "ineffective" I don't even know where your getting that idea... the brits have been just as "ineffective" with their methods. their in the same boat stocks.. ecomeny all going down just the same as the US.

to the reduction in the GST. it does help everyone... by lowering services tax it has a higher chance then cutting income taxs of making people go out and spend money... this helps boast the economy. as to deficits the moment you start bailing out companys your going to go into one. and the keeping the GST would not have given enough money to keep us out of deficit if Kevin Page is right... in fact you could argue that by cutting the GST it help soften the recession which quite a few econemists are saying.

also they didn't just cut the GST they cut corprate taxs which everyone says is good for the econemy. but no one says they shouldn't have done it cause its putting them closer to a deficit (besides the NDP lol)

I don't see them finding any common ground with the opposition on anything. Not 6 weeks after the election they pull all this crap again thinking they can rule like a majority. Finding common ground starts before you begin your partisan politics, dropping it after you've been politically wounded and in danger of collapsing your own Government is just fucking smart. It doesn't mean they won't try again.

the thing is being smart meant that they had to back down... which they did. I don't see the opposition backing down on one thing. Dion is taking power when most people don't think he's a good leader! his own party thinks he is the reason they lost! they just want to be back in power whatever the cost... working with the bloc! sure thing! socialists? sure!

is harper doing somthing that wrong for him to get overthrown.?
i don't really see a big problem with what he is doing

I wouldn't say he is. all he did was try to weaken them... they have made him back down on that... but they smell blood in the air and are pushing forward for no reason planing perhaps to spray money everywhere and hope that the econemy improves before people find out that it wasn't their money that helped

2kill

[Money]

I did not know Canada had a government.

[Kolar]

the brits bought 51% of the banks making them majoriaty shareholders... thats nationalizen plain and simple.

No that is not the same as Nationalization. Take a Canadian crown like GO Transit as an example, no private citizen can own a part of that company. It is a nationally owned and operated entity. Even if the Canadian Government bought a majority stake in a private corporation, legally that entity still exists and functions as a private corporation. Nationalization is removing the private entity to the public sector. We're not on the level of freaking Hugo Chavez here.

also it hasn't proven "ineffective" I don't even know where your getting that idea... the brits have been just as "ineffective" with their methods. their in the same boat stocks.. ecomeny all going down just the same as the US.

What happened initially with banks in the US is they provided cash infusions and in some cases took on some kind of ownership to improve liquidity but as other large banks began to show signs of weakness they opted for direct cash infusions, loans and eventually directly buying up the bad assets. None of these has freed up the credit market.

What I am saying is that the deals made across the Atlantic put the Government in a better position to see some kind of return and have an actual stake in fixing the errors made. Right wingers might push for Government to not take on ownership or offer up higher interest rates on loans and only dump money on the problem. We have to keep in mind that we're giving trillions of dollars to the people who got us to where we are today. If there's no penalty then at least lets not put more of a burden on our children's children if we are not going to see anything come of it.

As it stands Paulson and Bernanke are playing with trillions with no solid idea or game plan. Buying up the bad assets hasn't helped and they've admitted it. Now they're just dumping money at the problem they've propped up the banks which in turn are not doing what they want, to begin lending again. All at the expense of the American tax payer.

to the reduction in the GST. it does help everyone... by lowering services tax it has a higher chance then cutting income taxs of making people go out and spend money... this helps boast the economy. as to deficits the moment you start bailing out companys your going to go into one. and the keeping the GST would not have given enough money to keep us out of deficit if Kevin Page is right... in fact you could argue that by cutting the GST it help soften the recession which quite a few econemists are saying.

It was a campaign promise and easy to implement but almost all economist believe cutting the income tax would be more beneficial and that's what the Liberal Party supports. We are probably heading for a deficit regardless of what we do. Where the Conservatives are wrong in this is in taking that option off the table, even if it could help and is truly needed. I don't know if it is but they don't want to be seen as the only Government in nearly 20 something years to run one.
A 1 or 2 percent reduction is not going to motivate people to spend more. I don't think people take notice of how much tax they actually pay on purchases. If someone is making a large purchase then maybe but even then unless it's a substantial price I don't see it motivating anyone. What will motivate someone to spend is knowing that instead of paying potentially hundreds or thousands of dollars in taxes maybe they can finance a new car, a house, pay their bills ect...

also they didn't just cut the GST they cut corprate taxs which everyone says is good for the econemy. but no one says they shouldn't have done it cause its putting them closer to a deficit (besides the NDP lol)

From the year 2000 to 2004 the Corporate tax dropped from 28% to 21%.

the thing is being smart meant that they had to back down... which they did. I don't see the opposition backing down on one thing. Dion is taking power when most people don't think he's a good leader! his own party thinks he is the reason they lost! they just want to be back in power whatever the cost... working with the bloc! sure thing! socialists? sure!

The coalition would probably offer up another Liberal leader, maybe even an older former PM to lead it. If they can't do that at least then they should back down and defeat the Government in the new year.

I don't think you or a lot of other people seem to grasp the scope of what Harper was trying to do. If he was successful in removing public financing the ability of ALL the opposition parties to campaign would be destroyed. You simply wouldn't see a Liberal, NDP or Green, 'Other' canidate in your riding. Now even if you're a Conservative supporter to the core and that reality sounds peachy to you, you have to acknowledge that for a well functioning democracy (it's a fucking joke we're talking about a Western, post-industrial democracy here) there has to be a well formed and functioning opposition, regardless of their public support. This would put us on the level of Zimbabwe politically.

[Tres]

I did not know Canada had a government.

Ah, but it does, my good sir,:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Canada

Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, is the sovereign and head of state of Canada, and gives repository of executive power, judicial and legislative power; as expressed in the constitution: the Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen.

^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Q...canada_wob.jpg

UK owns and governs Canada

[Money]

ouch, i would be butt hurt

[Troll King]

The Conservatives put themselves in this situation. Flaherty's budget update ran counter to almost everything Harper was saying following the economic summit, while the cuts to political funding to the parties was the exact kind of thing their opponents were talking about when they raised fears about a hidden Conservative agenda.

I'm also extremely disappointed but not surprised when the Conservative party's spin machine immediately started talking about their opponents conspiring to undermine democracy and their mandate to rule.

First, Stephen Harper and the Conservatives discussed doing the exact same with the other opposition parties during the Liberal's last minority government. Secondly, this doesn't undermine democracy, in fact, this is how democracy is supposed to work, it's another example of the kinds of checks and balances that is built into our system of government. And thirdly, the Conservatives use the term "mandate" as if they had a majority government. They don't.

[Soul Survivor]

Who really gives a fuck? it's only Canada

[Cops]

Coalition government = only good option at this point

[froedrick]

Who really gives a fuck? it's only Canada

Who really gives a fuck that you finally overcame racism to a certain extent in your shitty fucking country. Go back to 1882 fuckface.

[project dragon]

I'm from the States and I don't care about Canada! 1
aghr fagootts I watch nascar arhjghs! ! 1


We get it. Shut up.