ITT Sarien "finishes" his AK-47 Build

[kthx]

Again.

More people die each year due to malpractice in hospitals than by getting shot (that includes murders and accidentals)

The statistics are even more astounding if you look at the accidental death due to firearm statistics.

So lets ban doctors then because obviously anything that kills people people can't be a good thing?

But wait.. doctors are here to protect people, to save the lives of innocent people who got a disease. It isn't every doctors fault that some doctors are irresponsible and negligent.

Sounds like the same thing as a gun owner to me.

-----

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7257072.stm

There, so Japan statistically has low gun crime rates.. but who commited 2/3 of the gun crimes supposedly? Crime syndicates who illegally obtained their weapons from the black market... go figure.

[Voth]

Epi, you're neglecting the point that criminals don't have access to guns in America through legal channels. If they have a criminal record they will not be allowed to legally purchase a gun due to the background check it takes to get your permit or even the quick one they do on the spot for a rifle or shotgun.

There is a huge black market gun trade that goes on and will continue to go on whether or not America passes legislation that prohibits firearms. That is not going to change and it is completely idiotic for you to think that the responsible citizens should be punished and put in danger because of the actions of the criminals using illegally purchased guns.

You guys are proposing a completely WRONG reform. Instead of prohibition of guns, how about a federal agency dedicated to the hindrance of illegal gun buying and selling? If guns are so much worse than drugs as Squeezer points out, why do we have a Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) but no illegal firearm buying/selling agency? Instead of punishing the people who can responsibly use firearms for protection, sport, and hunting, why don't we focus on working to punish the people who are creating all of those nasty statistics of gun violence?

[Squeezer]

Squeezer, please respond to the quoted passage.
Do you agree? Do you not agree?
And if you're wondering, what I expect the real answer to be is "Yes, I agree, however I feel that guns are too dangerous, and cause more societal evil than personal good." If that's the case, we'll cross that bridge when we get there, but I'm curious if you can understand this basic precept of a free society.

Yes I agree with that statement and you're pretty much right about how I'll respond. Guns give a person the ability to infringe on someone else's "need" to live. While I understand that it's a passion for some people, (and thus don't bitch out gun owners like some anti-firearm advocates) the technology these people posses gives them the opportunity to determine another person's fate. How does that seem dangerous? I understand that most people with weapons in their hands will handle them in a safe manner but that detracts nothing from their destructive capabilities. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but that gives one person an unnatural advantage over another in terms of determining the course of their life.

I could bring up Locke, Hobbes and the rest of the gang to be a dick like Exalt, but I'll spare you since I'm sure you've read it and just summarize their sentiment. You can only be free to pursue the activities that make you happy if you're life and right of expression are also guaranteed. There is no reason beyond nature for one person to have an advantage over another lest it comes as a result of the work they put forward to make such advances.

Again, I'm not trying to steal your guns. Only trying to convince you that society would be better off disarmed. I would never personally own a gun and I would hope that all of you choose to be responsible with yours.

edit: lol exalt thinks there will be anarchy in America during his lifetime and accused epi of being a school shooter. I'm glad I could do my part. Didn't know this would be the issue that hit a nerve.

[kthx]

Kthx thinks that he really needs a gun to protect himself for an armed robbery. Like seriously? Where I'm from, I have basically NEVER heard of a single person who was held up at gunpoint or had armed people come into their house. It just doesn't happen... and you know why? Because it's actually much harder to get guns here than in America. And it's not like it's always been so either, when I was a kid they sold guns at department stores just like they do in the USA, and millions of people in Canada still own guns.

http://www2.canada.com/national/nati...e-9e37d5313d8a

So you have never heard of a person who was held up at gun point or had someone break into their house? Yet 55% of people polled in Toronto listed gun crime as their biggest concern?

"I think you'd have to be living in a vacuum if you didn't realize that what we have here is a spike in the use of guns and young people shooting other young people," added Mr. Godfrey, who is now president and chief executive officer of the Toronto Blue Jays baseball club."

[kthx]

But the ideal of a free society is that it encourages its citizenry to reach for their full measure of happiness. Not simply the things they "need", but activities and possessions and lifestyles that are of value to each person's "pursuit of happiness".

Yes I agree with that statement but you're right. Guns give a person the ability to infringe on someone else's "need" to live. While I understand that it's a passion for some people, (and thus don't bitch out gun owners like some anti-firearm advocates) the technology these people posses gives them the opportunity to determine another person's fate. How does that seem dangerous? I understand that most people with weapons in their hands will handle them in a safe manner but that detracts nothing from their destructive capabilities. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but that gives one person an unnatural advantage over another in terms of determining the course of their life.

I could bring up Locke, Hobbes and the rest of the gang to be a dick like Exalt, but I'll spare you since I'm sure you've read it and just summarize their sentiment. You can only be free to pursue the activities that make you happy if you're life and right of expression are also guaranteed. There is no reason beyond nature for one person to have an advantage over another lest it comes as a result of the work they put forward to make such advances.

So you are saying that you don't have a problem with someone who is trained to kill with their hands killing someone who breaks into their home but if someone shoots someone who breaks into their home then it is a bad thing because they are using a tool to do it?

[Exalt]

I could bring up Locke, Hobbes and the rest of the gang to be a dick like Exaltadvances.

feel free, but I will point out far more quality and quantity of quotes and direct arguments for the need and the right for citizens to bear arms

I didn't realize I was being a dick by pointing out the constitution or the direct quotes from the writers of it. I guess the constitution doesn't mean anything to you, so I become a dick for pointing it out and proving you wrong, but whatever.

[Squeezer]

feel free, but I will point out far more quality and quantity of quotes and direct arguments for the need and the right for citizens to bear arms

I didn't realize I was being a dick by pointing out the constitution or the direct quotes from the writers of it. I guess the constitution doesn't mean anything to you, so I become a dick for pointing it out and proving you wrong, but whatever.

make your own arguments and stop likening people to school shooters. Then maybe people will take the time to actually discuss this issue with you.

[Squeezer]

So you are saying that you don't have a problem with someone who is trained to kill with their hands killing someone who breaks into their home but if someone shoots someone who breaks into their home then it is a bad thing because they are using a tool to do it?

You are not trained to kill. You are not trained in weapons tactics. You do not represent a higher authority than yourself. If you shoot someone it is because you pulled the trigger. Yes I have a problem with leaving that decision in the hands of just about everyone.

There is a huge black market gun trade that goes on and will continue to go on whether or not America passes legislation that prohibits firearms. That is not going to change and it is completely idiotic for you to think that the responsible citizens should be punished and put in danger because of the actions of the criminals using illegally purchased guns.

You guys are proposing a completely WRONG reform. Instead of prohibition of guns, how about a federal agency dedicated to the hindrance of illegal gun buying and selling? If guns are so much worse than drugs as Squeezer points out, why do we have a Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) but no illegal firearm buying/selling agency? Instead of punishing the people who can responsibly use firearms for protection, sport, and hunting, why don't we focus on working to punish the people who are creating all of those nasty statistics of gun violence?

ummm

[kthx]

No, that is where you are wrong, I am trained to kill, I am trained in weapon tactics, I have passed my concealed weapon class, I can fire any of my weapons and hit a target, therefore I am literally trained to kill, should it be in the defense of my life or my girlfriends.

[Money]

i shot a mexicans leg once after we robbed him and he took off runnig yelling he tried to jump over a fence and i shot it him in the leg was fun times in houston !

[kthx]

Mexican hunting season is already over, it started on May 4th.

[Squeezer]

No, that is where you are wrong, I am trained to kill, I am trained in weapon tactics, I have passed my concealed weapon class, I can fire any of my weapons and hit a target, therefore I am literally trained to kill, should it be in the defense of my life or my girlfriends.

And you've been trained to know that lethal force is a last resort option? Or do you not give a shit?

I'm not judging you. I'm just curious.

[Vykromond]

And you've been trained to know that lethal force is a last resort option? Or do you not give a shit?

I'm not judging you. I'm just curious.

last resort against whites, first resort against browns

what part of this are you still not getting

[kthx]

I would only shoot someone if my life or the life of someone I was with whether it was a friend, family, girlfriend etc was in immediate danger. Obviously I don't go around looking for bank robberies so I can run inside and start shooting bad guys like a fucking western if that is what you are implying.

[Vatican Assassin]

Originally Posted by Vatican Assassin
The people who wrote the US Constitution did so with the knowledge that the greatest threat to liberty will come from within, i.e., from corruption within our own government. So if you read the first ten ammendments, you'll see that, for instance, it does not say "American citizens have the right to keep and bear arms," it says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Now this is a huge legal difference as I'm sure you know Epi, and there is a reason for this particular wording.

Originally posted by Genocidal
Oh yeah, what's that reason? (I always like it when people speak for our forefathers' intent.)

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson

Originally Posted by Vatican Assassin
Kthx is right, if you make guns illegal, the black market will go HELL YES and feel much safer about robbing houses and stores cuz while they will always have guns, their victims never will, and they will know that and exploit it. Just the possibility of my house having a gun owner keeps many criminals away.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson


Looks like you can stop trying to characterize me as being a paranoid schitzo who doesn't understand our forefather's intentions -- of which you are apparently unknowledgable, unless you think Thomas Jefferson also led a "terrible and miserable life." Seriously genocidal, do you think you can have a conversation without saying such dick comments?