FieryFire's perspective on the history of Trench Wars Warbird Dueling

[TajaUk]

.

"oh by this time i left staff cuz staff was getting gay as it is now. too many newbies who suck up and stuff and dont know anyting and whine and moan and kiss the smods ass."

ROFL classic dude...ff my hero.

[adam]

a..

I've heald a steady 189 ranking in baseelim and and unranked rating of 3 in elim. I OWN TRENCH WARS

[LightlyToasted]

Honestly... is there any reason why I should really care about any of this? I mean, is there any reason for me to care if someone and their buddies were amazing when the game was played years ago? Because to be honest with y'all, this big time newbie couldn't care less.
If you did all this, then good for you, congratulations, really, you have to remember, that this is a game, and though you may take it really seriously, and you can go ahead and play for 7 years straight, it doesn't mean that people should look up to you or even care about who you are. Be proud of what you've done, you may have truly made Trench Wars a better place, and once again... Congratulations. However, there's absolutely no reason to go on and on about it, the history is fine, but the "I'm the greatest ever and everything I touched was great until I stopped trying" is getting very annoying.

Maybe it's only because I'm such a newbie... but I couldn't care less if you started in 1999, 1996, or 2003, it doesn't make a difference. You can be just as much a moron no matter when you started, so please, call me a newb, it's truth, I don't have any problem with it, but don't act like you're a better person and we should all sit and worship you because you played this game for so long. Seriously, what's the point of living in the past? I don't get it...
"Back in my day..." your dad ever talk like that, or your grandpa? Did you ever care what came after that preface? I don't know a lot of people who later had more respect for their parents because "Back in the day" they used to walk uphill both ways and they owned with super resolutions.

[Blood]

FF I remember beating you in a duel for TWEL #1 like 2-3 years ago =(

[Mythrandir]

Thread Closed

[Childrn of Light]

pussy

[Mythrandir]

ssssh

[GuruMeditation]

Holy crap :eek: L-W, CoL, Crome, FF, Epi, Lite in one post ...

Win95 is bound to pop along soon.

Epi : Hehe nice address Sniper is elite with it's 320x200 res. Wish you could access SS with it -_-

[Server]

blah i've played longer than you epi gg EZ :P

btw crome.. banzi isnt the best.

[BrokenFist]

Originally posted by FieryFire
Some disturbing nonsense I'm assuming

I told you guys that the aliens are sucking out our brains.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Originally posted by FieryFire

I started off April 4th 1999 exploring this game.

You started Trench in 1999 or you started in 1999?


As someone who has played subspace since 1995, let me give you a bit of my personal perspective which is probably in line with a lot of later TW adopters. A lot of the stuff you accomplished, those 52-0 recs, was because there was 0 competition, at least Epi realizes this. Why? Because Trench for the first years of its existence was viewed as a joke (and still largely is by most SVS players, but by now has produced its own skilled players so it has talent of its own). Although I wasn't there (I tried it when it was started, but panned it off as a silly "super zone" it wasn't until Dec. 2000 that my friend convinced me to play it, and I didn't join leagues till 2001) my personal opinion has been that early TW consisted of a combination of: new players, players who couldn't hack it in SVS zones, and a rough handful of good players who actually liked the settings. So of course these good players dominated, who was the competition? Guys who had been playing for a couple months, or guys that had been kicked out of the other zones. After about a year or 2 , you start to see the new "born in trench" players developing as well as SVS players joining into and now being able to be at the top of the game becomes meaningful. The other huge point is the lack of the res restriction which has been mentioned many times, you didn't need any skill to beat someone with lower res, it simply wasn't a fair fight (Ex: Mattey on monitor that didn't support full res 5-10 twdd average in about 20 duels elim rank around 150, Mattey next month at full res 16-10 twdd average #1 ranked elim player). That's why I'm entirely convinced the talent level wasn't any better then than it is now, the talent in the game just wasn't competing with you guys, it was competing in other zones. Sure most of the good guys are still near the top (who wouldn't be after 4 years of practice to improve, and I'm convinced the ones that are still at the top are only there because they've improved) but guys who were vets, left, then came back hardly seem to dominate vs the current players. You can call it rust, or you can take the perspective that maybe they really weren't as good as they thought they were, for some it's one case, for some it's the other. But just look at the twdd stats of the vets you named that are still playing, many are struggling to keep 1:1 w/l ratios in twdd, even while playing on vet squads. (Banzi and Blood are the truth though)

That said, I give respect to Siege for being able to stay at the top of the game, improve consistently throughout the years, and win leagues even after competition began to arise. However, you have to consider that Siege/Elusive and all the "vet" squads profited greatly by their early start in TW. When new talent arises, rather than competiting against them, it would often become assimillated into the squad, if you can't beat them, join them. As you said yourself u guys dont come close to Sudden BAnzi JAck..otherwise u'd be in supersquads like i was. (Of course squad loyalty does keep some people from joining vet squads.... not very many though). When every good player joins the "vet" squads, this is probably when the other players started looking at javs/basing as a way to get into the game. The vet squads were like the New York Yankees with an unlimited payroll. It's only recently that there is enough total talent around that the "vet" squads can't grab it all up (Give us back Mr. Spam) and other squads can compete.

Agree Disagree, I'm sure I'll hear about it.

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by Sleepy Weasel
You started Trench in 1999 or you started in 1999?


As someone who has played subspace since 1995, let me give you a bit of my personal perspective which is probably in line with a lot of later TW adopters. A lot of the stuff you accomplished, those 52-0 recs, was because there was 0 competition, at least Epi realizes this. Why? Because Trench for the first years of its existence was viewed as a joke (and still largely is by most SVS players, but by now has produced its own skilled players so it has talent of its own). Although I wasn't there (I tried it when it was started, but panned it off as a silly "super zone" it wasn't until late 2000 that my friend convinced me to play it) my personal opinion has been that early TW consisted of a combination of: new players, players who couldn't hack it in SVS zones, and a rough handful of good players who actually liked the settings. So of course these good players dominated, who was the competition? Guys who had been playing for a couple months, or guys that had been kicked out of the other zones. After about a year or 2 , you start to see the new "born in trench" players developing as well as SVS players joining into and now being able to be at the top of the game becomes meaningful. The other huge point is the lack of the res restriction which has been mentioned many times, you didn't need any skill to beat someone with lower res, it simply wasn't a fair fight. That's why I'm entirely convinced the talent level wasn't any better then than it is now, the talent in the game just wasn't competing with you guys. Sure most of the good guys are still near the top (who wouldn't be after 4 years of practice to improve) but guys who were vets, left, then came back hardly seem to dominate vs the current players. You can call it rust, or you can take the perspective that maybe they really weren't as good as they thought they were, for some it's one case, for some it's the other. But just look at the twdd stats of the vets you named that are still playing, many are struggling to keep 1:1 w/l ratios in twdd, even while playing are vet squads.

That said, I give respect to Siege for being able to stay at the top of the game, improve consistently throughout the years, and win leagues even after competition began to arise. However, you have to consider that Siege/Elusive and all the "vet" squads profited greatly by their early start in TW. When new talent arises, rather than competiting against them, it would often become assimillated into the squad, if you can't beat them, join them. As you said yourself u guys dont come close to Sudden BAnzi JAck..otherwise u'd be in supersquads like i was. (Of course squad loyalty does keep some people from joining vet squads.... not very many though). When every good player joins the "vet" squads, this is probably when the other players started looking at javs/basing as a way to get into the game. The vet squads were like the New York Yankees with an unlimited payroll. It's only recently that there is enough total talent around that the "vet" squads can't grab it all up (Give us back Mr. Spam) and other squads can compete.

Agree Disagree, I'm sure I'll hear about it.

Yeah it really was heh. FF cares more because this is where he started :P My first year in TW was me getting made fun of by my pro league squaddies for playing a newbie zone The skill disparity was so high whenever I managed to get one of those pro league people in here, they'd instantly win their first elim game and dominate, then get bored and leave.

But really Sleepy Elusive isn't one of those grab all talent squads. Sure for a period of 2 months late last year after TWL ended that's what happened but it didn't last. Look at our roster on the TWLD map for season 2.. we had 8 players. And even now I bet we have one of the smallest rosters in all of TWL at 17.

-Epi

[Sleepy Weasel]

I agree with you Epi, I wanted to point that out, but the thread was getting pretty long already. Most of the current vet squads have the same roster as they've had for a long time with only a few additions. But largely those additions are the very cream of the crop players. It only takes 5 guys to win a league, so just grabbing say the 2 best new talents can make a huge difference.

It also is interesting to note that every year only about 2 new talents rise above the rest, while there are many that reach close but stay at a tier below. I would argue that out of all the "vets" (generally considered the first 3 years) only about 6 of them are really on that upper level, along with about 6 newer players. But as I said, only takes 5 to win a league, so those same 6 guys can theoretically do it every year if they stick together unless all the new talent joins together to give them a run at it (or a squad just gets hot or lucky ) . The rest of the guys are all 1:1 players vs each other, only about 8 guys in the zone come to my mind as being in a league of their own, guys that can routinely dominate the other "vets" in their squad. (More if you distinguish between wb and jav). Although all that could just be bullshit, I haven't exactly thought it through, but I was considering why as someone pointed out awhile ago in a different thread, it's always the same old guys winning, you only see like 2 new talents a year, I contend it's always been like that. Heh, I see the logic of this paragraph crumbling as I type it but damn it I"m leaving it here, it's mostly right I think.

I should stop posting.

[stuckup]

Re: Re: FieryFire's perspective on the history of Trench Wars Warbird Dueling

Originally posted by TelC@t


e.g.

Raspi
elim ranking: 7 | belim ranking: 81

He asked for Vets. Raspi is good and nice. But not a vet.

[Crome]

LightlyToasted: Your newbie ass (quoting what he called himself) should remember who did what before you because thats the whole point of leagues. To get your name in history books. If you play this game enough to come onto the forums and post it shows you care so... care enough to acknowledge respect. You can call it an ego trip, sure. I just rather have my ego trip have me remembered in TW for my accomplishments than go down without any thought of in the future. I like Epi's putting the squads and rosters on the maps. $$

Btw
server: post an argument for someone else who you think would be the best OF ALL TIME and I bet I can counter harder stronger and with more giz. hehe FLARE!
Ill come back in a week to check up on this topic.