2012 Presidential Election

[Ephemeral]

Although I do agree with your assessment of the US educational system, I refrained from painting a more grim picture for the following two reasons. First, I am not so sure that the current trend of ‘wiki-style’ education is limited to just the US; it seems to me that it is persuasive in many other countries and is probably being driven by the internet and other instant delivery of information. Second, US universities are still held in very high regard as shown by the number of non-US people who flock to them. In fact, I think that most of the prestigious PhD programs are now populated with more non-US folks than US folks. This seems to be an endorsement of a world class system.

I think that civics simply highlights one of the real issues with the flaws and short-comings in the current education of people. ‘Instant information access’ paradigm shift has impacted many aspects of our lives but its influence over the educational process has yet to be fully realized. As ubiquitous computing becomes even more widely accepted, we will all have to adapt to having instant access to a lifetimes worth of information at our finger tips. This screams for a move away from the traditional ‘rote and memorize’ educational approach. I think it is all about learning how to learn. Simply put, it is now more important to teach someone how to find quality information than it is to get them to retain that information. (Einstein was right when he said to never commit anything to memory that can easily be looked up.)
Of course in the above statement the key words are ‘quality information’. The news media has been rocked by instant information access and still holds on the ‘if it bleeds, it leads’ mentality. ‘Breaking news’ has now just about become standard on every screen. But this hunger for instant access to news supports poor quality information. Which is better, having real-time poor quality misinformation or waiting for the correct version? The news media is no longer the simple stating of the facts of a story, they must fill the 24/7 air time so blend the delivery of facts with commentary. The result is that we don’t just hear about an attack on the embassy in Libya, we hear speculation about how and why it occurred. (This is the kind of differentiation skills we should be teaching people.)

But the really scary part is that we still have not been told exactly when the US figured out that this was an outright pre-planned attack and not a spontaneous demonstration. Was the White House really thinking that it was spontaneous for two weeks or did they know much earlier but not telling us? And what did the American public take away from the debate on this? Some bullshit semantics where it looked like Obama came out ahead because he used the words ‘act of terror’ buried in weeks of spontaneous demonstration rhetoric. And Romney falls on his face because he cannot correctly raise the issue and got sucked into a ‘debate 101’ mistake.

Both of these guys are morons and neither one deserves to be elected based solely on leadership qualities. I think that leadership is by far the most important aspect of the executive branch, it HAS to be there to counter balance the legislative branch. This is because the economy hinges on ‘certainty’. Without leadership and the ability to bring people together in the middle of the legislative aisle this period of economic uncertainly will continue to plague us all. We have contemporary examples of this happening, Reagan did it many times. A good example was his handling of the CFC/ozone issue. he lead not only the US congress to do the right thing but also demonstrated the ability to bring the rest of the world (including the Euros who really pushed back on this) into not destroying the very planet we live on for the sake of financial gain. If Obama had 10% of this leadership ability, we would have addressed the global warming issue by now. Another four years of this? It is sad to say this but I guess I will be voting only to ‘throw the bums out’ in every election.
eph

[Summa]

Only thing I came away with from the second debate is just how screwed up our society is; obviously we have deteriorated to nothing more than 30 second sound bites. IMO you cannot reduce complex subjects into something that fits on a bumper sticker. You cannot be considered knowledgeable or form good opinion on topics without some hard work. It takes more than spending a minute reading Wikipedia or some other online resource to be truly well-informed yet it is clear that politicians think that is all we do. And in many ways they are right. This is our own fault, they are pandering to us correctly. They know that they can simply spin BS half truths/present things that are completely out of context and we will fall for it.
And of course the media is right there assisting in treating us all as morons and like we cannot figure out their agendas. Watching the media cover this election is like reading another Tone/alien thread in these forums. Feeding us a bunch of bullshit like we cannot figure out that people are financially invested in this stuff. (Poor Tone has yet to figure out that he has never posted a thing from anyone who didn’t have a financial interest in publishing a book, movie, blog, etc.)

Here is how I think this will unfold over the next 3 weeks. I think that this election will have the biggest voter turnout in years. Many, many people (mostly Republicans) who have avoided voting in recent years will vote in this election. But the liberal media will begin to present a ton of ‘feel good’ news in an attempt to sway people that things are better, watch as suddenly the nightly news is filled with ‘good’ economic reports for the next few weeks. If people are idiots and buy into this media deception then the election will be very close. It may even be close enough for Romney to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college vote and put Obama back in office. If people don’t buy in to the media trash than it could be a decisive win for Romney. But the one thing I don’t see happening is a decisive win for Obama.
eph

In regards to your first part, I think the problem is worse than you characterized it in America. I am biased because I wrote my Senior Synth on this, but I sincerely believe that there is a crisis in America regarding our Philosophy of Education and particularly Civics Based Education; a problem that could only be solved by a 2nd term President imo. The education Philosophy stuff is probably is not for this thread, but basically boils down to there being a shift in the demand curve for education in America, and no one ever shifted the supply curve to follow it. However; what is scarier is that education is the lifeblood of democracy and we are failing at it. In order for government by representation to work effectively, you need an educated, interested, and involved populace who selects leaders who would properly represent their interests and gets rid of them when they don't . Look at our society, in 1960, 47 states REQUIRED at least one civics education class to be passed in order to graduate from high school, and 96% of schools offered a class. In 2006, 0 states REQUIRE a civics education to graduate, and a mere 22% of public schools even offer the course. We have a system that leaves people uneducated on how society even works. In regards to interest, in 1966, 60% of college Freshman thought it was important to follow politics regularly; in 2000 that has dropped to 22.5%, our youth is uninterested. In terms of involved, forget the media and how much they disillusion people, just look at the figures: in the early 70s, just over half of people in the 18-29 age group voted, and today we are down to below 1/3. The only reason that the media fearmongering and oversimplification of complex issues both works and has to happen is that we have a systemic problem where we leave our citizens with a child-like understanding of government and expect them to elect officials who will govern well. It is a joke, and it can't be solved by many. No candidate who is ever seeking re-election would ever try a massive reform of education, and anybody who tried to remove education prerogative from states would catch endless political fire; however, 91% of polled citizens believe something needs to be done about the lack of civic education in America. So I would say a 2nd term president with balls is the only thing that will help. (Most of these statistics are from various articles written by William A. Galston).

Hell I even heard an interesting point of view from the NYTimes head statistician on The Daily Show last night where he said part of the deconstruction of journalism in the media and the rise of fear-mongering was due to the internet and expanded cable television. That is to say that in regards to domestic affairs at a national level, nothing really significant happens most days. Government and progress is a slow moving process, however news stations have to fill headlines even on days when nothing happens; so they started blowing up non-issues and forcing politicians to comment on stupid stuff, etc. I found it interesting at least.

In regards to the debate. Nothing really relevant was discussed, it was two guys being asked questions by an entirely white and old audience, and them bickering. Obama probably won only because he got a "moment" when the moderator basically told Romney, "you're lying". Still favoring Obama over Romney at this point; although not voting is looking good too. Idk, just something about Romney's ability to adapt his point of view to anything just so that he can get elected leads me to believe he has 0 spine. Also, Paul Ryan is a dick.

[gran guerrero]

At least Obama isn't fucking retardedly stupid

[gran guerrero]

Only thing I came away with from the second debate is just how screwed up our society is; obviously we have deteriorated to nothing more than 30 second sound bites. IMO you cannot reduce complex subjects into something that fits on a bumper sticker. You cannot be considered knowledgeable or form good opinion on topics without some hard work. It takes more than spending a minute reading Wikipedia or some other online resource to be truly well-informed yet it is clear that politicians think that is all we do. And in many ways they are right. This is our own fault, they are pandering to us correctly. They know that they can simply spin BS half truths/present things that are completely out of context and we will fall for it.
And of course the media is right there assisting in treating us all as morons and like we cannot figure out their agendas. Watching the media cover this election is like reading another Tone/alien thread in these forums. Feeding us a bunch of bullshit like we cannot figure out that people are financially invested in this stuff. (Poor Tone has yet to figure out that he has never posted a thing from anyone who didn’t have a financial interest in publishing a book, movie, blog, etc.)

Here is how I think this will unfold over the next 3 weeks. I think that this election will have the biggest voter turnout in years. Many, many people (mostly Republicans) who have avoided voting in recent years will vote in this election. But the liberal media will begin to present a ton of ‘feel good’ news in an attempt to sway people that things are better, watch as suddenly the nightly news is filled with ‘good’ economic reports for the next few weeks. If people are idiots and buy into this media deception then the election will be very close. It may even be close enough for Romney to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college vote and put Obama back in office. If people don’t buy in to the media trash than it could be a decisive win for Romney. But the one thing I don’t see happening is a decisive win for Obama.
eph

Because Willard is the choice everyone truly wants! FUCKING ELECTORAL COLLEGE! Always ruining it for the rest of us!

[Zeebu]

hell, i like 3 party

[Zeebu]

i like 2 party

[Supreme]

Would you say a 10 party system beats a 2party system?

[Zeebu]

im pretty sure candy wanted to strangle mittens

[Ephemeral]

Only thing I came away with from the second debate is just how screwed up our society is; obviously we have deteriorated to nothing more than 30 second sound bites. IMO you cannot reduce complex subjects into something that fits on a bumper sticker. You cannot be considered knowledgeable or form good opinion on topics without some hard work. It takes more than spending a minute reading Wikipedia or some other online resource to be truly well-informed yet it is clear that politicians think that is all we do. And in many ways they are right. This is our own fault, they are pandering to us correctly. They know that they can simply spin BS half truths/present things that are completely out of context and we will fall for it.
And of course the media is right there assisting in treating us all as morons and like we cannot figure out their agendas. Watching the media cover this election is like reading another Tone/alien thread in these forums. Feeding us a bunch of bullshit like we cannot figure out that people are financially invested in this stuff. (Poor Tone has yet to figure out that he has never posted a thing from anyone who didn’t have a financial interest in publishing a book, movie, blog, etc.)

Here is how I think this will unfold over the next 3 weeks. I think that this election will have the biggest voter turnout in years. Many, many people (mostly Republicans) who have avoided voting in recent years will vote in this election. But the liberal media will begin to present a ton of ‘feel good’ news in an attempt to sway people that things are better, watch as suddenly the nightly news is filled with ‘good’ economic reports for the next few weeks. If people are idiots and buy into this media deception then the election will be very close. It may even be close enough for Romney to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college vote and put Obama back in office. If people don’t buy in to the media trash than it could be a decisive win for Romney. But the one thing I don’t see happening is a decisive win for Obama.
eph

[DKFett]

I watched the 2nd debate that was now 2 days ago or so. I found it amusing and interesting!

I'll take your word for it!

[Mantra-Slider]

I watched the 2nd debate that was now 2 days ago or so. I found it amusing and interesting!

[DKFett]

I just spent about half an hour watching the first presidential debate. I'm surprised at how similar they are.

[Da1andonly]

is heavensent still around

is he out there somewhere

i just wanted to say that i've waited 4 years to prove you wrong

[Salubrious]

The GOP had a great candidate with Jon Huntsman but he obviously didn't fit the role of puppet and decided to walk away from our GOP debates and say F' running for president. Newt was even a better choice than Mittens. I remember having heated debates with kthx about the elections last time we found ourselves at this crossroads. Obama has not committed himself to 99% of the campaign promises he made to the electorate. Mittens has found a way to be a yes man to whatever group he is addressing at the fundraisers he has, flipping from one position to the next. The problem as I see it, is we have two idiots running for President that neither deserve to be elected to! I would vote for Huntsman or Newt come election day, but that would be the same as voting for Ron Paul. A waste of a vote. A more pressing problem we as a nation and people must deal with, is of our elected idiots to the Congress and Senate! Here is where the real bowl of crap has been siiting and it damn well needs a good flush and or plunger to get rid of some of these lifetime millionaire politicians feeding off the country with their free health insurance and pesnion plans that us regular folk are told we cannot have and should learn to live without.

It would be refreshing to have politicians that lead by example, but this will not happen until the government is so fucked up and out of touch that we see either a civil war here or our the removal of our constituion all together in lieu of using Orwell's 1984 as the new constitution.

I would have voted for McCain over Obama last election if they would have picked anyone other than Palin as his running mate. Same feeling I have once again with Romney and his pick of Ryan.

Newt actually said it best when on Meet The Press, that you can not be a successful president today unless you lead and run the nation from the Center and not the far right or left! I agree 100%

These idiots running seem to pander only to the corporations now known as peoples by our Supreme Court, political party and their personal agendas, rather than taking a middle of the road approach. We are a nation of lemmings ready to run off a cliff for a politician.

By the way, WTF is with Obama and the NDAA he demanded? What happened to his transparency in government? What happened to him not surrounding himself with Wash. insiders? Obama is one big ass lying sack of shit! Not that the other candidate would not be!! But wtf is going on that our country no longer abides by the constitution exceot when it fits what they want? Look up the story of Leah Plante if you wish to see how the great Obama is abiding by protecting our citizens rites to protest and speak out against the government! This should concern all of us any time there are law-enforcement raids that target political literature & First Amendment-protected materials. Odd that citizens are having their constitutional rites revoked by the Obama Admin. and these citizens are being put on trial by secret grand jury's!

I am so so so happy to be an independent.

I leaned towards McCain as well last election but...the past 4 years seems to have done a doozy on his cognitive abilities so maybe we dodged a bullet there. Could you imagine a senile McCain and Palin administration? The horrors.

[Zeebu]

big bird 4 prez