Stop God Petition

[Facetious]

Originally posted by Dameon Angell
so without God, you're saying we have less problems?

I think that if less people believed in whatever-the-fuck religion they believe in, we'd have less problems, yes. How many massive world conflicts right now aren't in some way religion-based?

[Facetious]

Originally posted by ÆNIMA

EDIT: i'm sure this isn't one of your reasons, but for those of you out there, "not seeing is not believing" is not a valid argument.

Why isn't that a valid argument? I mean, honestly. That's pretty much the best argument ever.

[Yoshiba]

[Bioture]

I don't have a problem with religious people at all (other than the religion part). I'm just saying that religion is not for me. Theists really should learn more about tolerance.

Yes the bible is "silly" and thats putting it nicely. The book is fucking written by humans. If god wrote it himself, then it'll be more credible. The bible is an anthology of ignorant, idiotic, imprudent, fatuous, balmy, preposterous, purile anecdotes/claims. And people are gullible. People are fearful. And more importantly - people believe that in being a theist, somehow theyll cheat death (or hell after death) and live forever.

Christians don't seem to be capable of telling right from wrong for themselves. They need to be told by their churches what is right and what is wrong. Atheists have the intelligence to work it out themselves. According to Galileo, all objects fall at the same rate. At a given location on the earth and in the absence of air resistance, all objects fall with the same uniform acceleration. According to the church, an object of double mass will fall twice as fast. So, the lock up Galileo for the remainder of his natural life (on no the church is ALWAYS right). Then many years later (i forgot its a really long time), the church finally admits that the earth revolves around the sun and is not the center of the universe and acknowledges the laws of gravity. Woopdeedoo.

Oh btw, religious systems are subject to Darwinian evolutionary principles. A breakaway cult forms, it might die, it might survive, it might even prosper and grow into a religion from which other breakaway cults will form. The major religions all have major subdivisions, minor subdivisions and offshoots. All religions began as cults. There is a family tree of religions. Some religions die (become extinct). Some religions are more flexible than others, they evolve quicker.

[Bioture]

Originally posted by Facetious
I think that if less people believed in whatever-the-fuck religion they believe in, we'd have less problems, yes. How many massive world conflicts right now aren't in some way religion-based?

God vs. Allah on HBO.

[adastalin]

Well said Bioture!
To all you Christian people, i would like to know, what do you do when the Bible contradicts itself as frequently happens? Is that an excuse to do as you see fit? for example do you take "an eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek"?
Surely it cannot be Gods word if it contradicts itself, that would be saying that God is wrong which cannot be possible in a religion where God is all knowing. So if aspects of the Bible are wrong, then all you people may not be living as good christians.

Another little contradiction i found: in Leviticus i think it is, it says that a man must not marry his brothers wife, for they shall be childless. However in Deuteronomy it says that it is a mans duty to marry his brothers wife... How do you work that out?

[adastalin]

Thats such a popular petition... ppl must really h8 god

[ÆNIMA]

often you have to put things into context when you read the bible, different things were written at different times for different reasons...the bible was put together by man, man did pick and choose what goes into the bible, and not to mention the countless number of times it's been translated
also, when the words were written down, they weren't written immediately after something happened, they were usually recollected at a certain point, of course there are going to be blemishes

those that are against organized religion, read Heavensent's post...i'm assuming you're a born again christian?

the truth is, you cannot argue for or against the existence of god. simply put, no one has a perfect knowledge that we know of. you can argue hours on end on either side, people have....it's only led t o gridlock.

if you put everyone's arguments for and against the existence of a higher being, weed out the silly arguments and just use the facts we have, your best bet would be to be agnostic about t he whole situation...meaning you just don't know, because most of you don't, there's no point in arguing for or against, so just stop.

bioture: why don't YOU believe in a GOD? (don't give me your hate lecture about organized religion)

Facetious, if you want me to prove that that argument is just plain stupid...i'd rather have a more personal conversation, so-as to avoid dumbass remarks from others.

science verses religion debates don't work, especially when either side gets their feelings intertwined, that's called an argument fallacy...remember, how can the finite (mortal) know the infinite (immortal)?

[geekbot]

I'm not sure if you will find God on these forums...but since we love arguing so much and perhaps adastalin actually wants an answer:

Originally posted by adastalin
for example do you take "an eye for an eye" or "turn the other cheek"?

A good question that many Christians also have. As Aenima has already said, the writing of the Bible spans many hundreds of years and deals with many issues. There is a difference between contradictions and applications of different truths in different situations. There is not 1 single truth (or right thing to do) that applies to all situations.

"An eye for an eye" is a command given by God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 24). It says that for the Israelites at the time, it is good to have punishments equal to the crime or offense. If I steal your goat, then I owe you a goat. "A goat for a goat."

"Turn the other cheek," was said in a sermon by Jesus (Matthew 5) as an example how a Christian can show love to their enemies. Jesus does mention the "eye for an eye" law but says that as an individual, we should practice forgiveness rather than always seek revenge/retribution.

SUMMARY: It is good for a nation to have laws that punish according to the crime. It is also good for individuals to not always be concerned about getting full repayment for being wronged. Also, you should note that although these are commands, you can expect exceptions in both cases.

Originally posted by adastalin
Another little contradiction i found: in Leviticus i think it is, it says that a man must not marry his brothers wife, for they shall be childless. However in Deuteronomy it says that it is a mans duty to marry his brothers wife... How do you work that out?

This one's easier. Leviticus 20 says don't have sex with your brother's wife while he is alive. Deuteronomy 25 says if your brother dies, you should take his wife. This was Jewish custom as a widow and orphans would have no source of income or means of providing for themselves.

You can look up these passages for yourself at http://bible.gospelcom.net

[geekbot]

Originally posted by Bioture
Christians don't seem to be capable of telling right from wrong for themselves. They need to be told by their churches what is right and what is wrong. Atheists have the intelligence to work it out themselves. According to Galileo, all objects fall at the same rate. At a given location on the earth and in the absence of air resistance, all objects fall with the same uniform acceleration. According to the church, an object of double mass will fall twice as fast.

"Christians can't think for themselves" or "Christianity is a crutch" is a somewhat common complaint about Christians. I would urge you to keep in mind that complaints about people who believe in something, are different than complaints about the thing they believe.

That said, I don't think it is an easy task to study the many different types of writing in the Bible (genealogies, histories, commands, poems, sermons, etc) written to a people living thousands of years ago. Truths that apply to Jews in that day do not necessarily apply exactly the same now.

When the Bible says, "love your neighbor," that's pretty straightforward. But most of my views (or at least the details and applications of those views) on God, life, and everything come out of length study of the Bible. The Bible obviously does not say anything about the theory of relativity, the war in Iraq, who you should vote for, or what mobile phone plan you should get. Figuring these out is the same challenge that anyone who has beliefs in anything must face. You have to decide what you believe and why you believe it just as I do.

[Reepicheep]

I shot God in the face.

[Mandagorian]

[Kolar]

Originally posted by Darius Winds
Oh no it's going to turn into a religious discussion post

I saw it comming too.


People can believe what they want to without being prosecuted, harassed or terrorized. To me thats what I like most about living in Canada.

I don't understand faith thats why I am not a religious person. I don't see how people can believe the most far fetched explanation when it comes to most things, IE evolving from lower forms of life.

I'm not an athiest, nor would I want to be something that people would see as a symbol of hate. There are some things in the known universe we can not explain, thats why I think most people goto faith because they feel there missing something.

I thought the petition was funny, but it seems a lot of people took great offence to it. Not everything is black and white, Religion and no religion,Evil - good.

[Bioture]

Originally posted by ÆNIMA

bioture: why don't YOU believe in a GOD? (don't give me your hate lecture about organized religion)

I dont hate organized religion. Organized religion hates me. Read my posts to answer the rest.

[Bioture]

Originally posted by geekbot
"Christians can't think for themselves" or "Christianity is a crutch" is a somewhat common complaint about Christians. I would urge you to keep in mind that complaints about people who believe in something, are different than complaints about the thing they believe.

That said, I don't think it is an easy task to study the many different types of writing in the Bible (genealogies, histories, commands, poems, sermons, etc) written to a people living thousands of years ago. Truths that apply to Jews in that day do not necessarily apply exactly the same now.

When the Bible says, "love your neighbor," that's pretty straightforward. But most of my views (or at least the details and applications of those views) on God, life, and everything come out of length study of the Bible. The Bible obviously does not say anything about the theory of relativity, the war in Iraq, who you should vote for, or what mobile phone plan you should get. Figuring these out is the same challenge that anyone who has beliefs in anything must face. You have to decide what you believe and why you believe it just as I do.

My point was that religion is not always right. It was the church who locked up galileo, and I do think it says somewhere in the bible that the earth is in the center of the universe. The earth must've been in the center of the universe when the bible was written a few thousand years ago? Not likely. After taking theism 250 and 351, I've realized that the bible presents a series of insights (pretty good insights) about life that can be figured out if one never read the bible. Does the bible create nice ideals and insights on life? Sure. Can you figure out what to do for yourself without the help of god? absolutely.

I don't thank god for anything I have now, because he never really gave me anything. He didn't give me my job, my car, my girlfriend. He didn't give me my personality, my strengths or my weaknesses. I owe thanks to the people that got me where i am today. Not god.

Funny how i see people always thanking god for something he didn't do. "oh thank god i'm still alive" - no thank the medic that gave you CPR and saved you.

and no, the bible -tells- you to "love your neighbor" if you dont, yo break a commandment, and you go to hell. Geez thats oppressing, always having to follow a set of silly rules. (yes silly)