Poll: Should we limit certain kinds of speech in TW?

[Guest]

so, i believe you are referring to https://i.imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png ....it has players telling other players they are mad because they are mentally retarded, and then talking about a player getting raped, followed by someones mom and family getting raped...that is not "just trash talk" and once upon a time TW staff did something about this..

nonetheless i appreciate your sense of unity, but this https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png and https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png need to be moderated.

its not.that.hard. we just need staff available from 3 or 4pm EST to 12am EST...thats the time range of higher population..so im not even saying to moderate the entire day..its ridiculous that it is coming down to that but i understand if we dont have enough staff for all day...

[With Ease]

It's absolutely ridiculous that this was even posted. How about instead of trying to censor every single aspect of potentially controversial speech you grow up and stop being so childish. Many people log on these days just to chat, and taking away the chat to sate your two-year old mentality does more harm than good. The notion that people are being driven away because of the toxic environment in pub is probably the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. The numbers have been on a steady decline because this game doesn't appeal to younger players anymore, not because someone talked about religion or politics in public.

[Guest]

OK let's say the game is dying steadily...which is completely true...

why can't we just have a decent moderated environment like it always used to be? that's all everyone wants. even if it doesn't bring back people, and each year we lose a few more...why not do this with common sense? just moderate the zone as it used to be moderated pre 2010...that is all anyone is saying. below are examples of how it used to be done...

its not. that. hard.

https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png

[Leland]

voted


get rid of these trolls

[Falconeer]

people like Falconeer, Lrim, Tower, Manco, Tantalus, and a few others, have destroyed this games environment. all of you constantly want to start triggering other players into getting into useless debates for over 1 hour at a time most of the time--even though no one was talking to you to begin with..

Actually Pinky engaged me in a conversation for 4 hours, so i would argue the trolls target each other. And whats funny is the mod wanted to stop it when me and pinky were perfectly fine with wasting each others time, and when i was enjoying the convo. It's literally no one's business how long I have a conversation with someone in the game, and before you say the mod was "correct"... me and Pinky were talking about laws in society in SPEC chat... the proper place to have conversations!, there was nothing racist or sexist, and since me and him were engaged in a convo for 4 hours everyone could have used ?ignore 4 hours ago and not hear it, since we'd have been talking all that time and not ?ignore evading... and i don't ?ignore evade anyway.

If you know anything about me you know that I actually go in the game and troll other loud people like, Pinky, Lrim, Tainted ass, Avantgarde etc.... Tower posts interesting facts, usually i see health facts about how the brain works or something, don't really see the issue, he's like a wiki bot, and he's ALWAYS on the same name.. IGNORE.TXT and problem solved.

If you want to get into it, having a fetish for black women isn't racist? Sounds like he likes black women. Having sex with men or saying people do that in thailand is not racist. It happens in thailand, probably more than it happens here. And transsexuals aren't a race.

But my main point wasn't how we disagree on what to moderate. It's that if something happened for only 1 minute, it would be pointless to send warnings and threaten people, and counter productive, it would actually make things worse. If it already stopped, then who cares? The conversation moved on from that naturally... ESPECIALLY when i think there is ambiguity there about it being racist/sexist.

My other main point is that because i feel there is ambiguity im not just going to attach a fucking rule to it like a piece of dictator shit and pretend they broke rules because i feel bad about what they are saying. I'm going to let it fucking go. Then I'm going to write a rule on the website about it addressing EXACTLY what the fuck that is. Then I will enforce the new rule the next day and let everyone know. That's called being fair, and not being an asshole.

You're still dealing with human beings, if you're an asshole, you will cause more problems down the line.

P.S the other two screenshots you posted should have been moderated.

[Guest]

why can't we just have a decent moderated environment like it always used to be? that's all everyone wants. even if it doesn't bring back people, and each year we lose a few more...why not do this with common sense? just moderate the zone as it used to be moderated pre 2010...that is all anyone is saying. below are examples of how it used to be done...

its not. that. hard.

https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png

[qan]

but it can be done with lines right
so why doesn't trench wars do that?

This is a good idea. It can be done with ASSS, but Joris is incorrect in thinking that it can be done with subgame. In order to prevent the server from broadcasting a packet to all players, you need to be able to control the server. Subgame bots are client emulators and can only send packets to the server, which the server then processes. The short of this is, you can't lock public chat messages for individual players; you can only *shutup, which locks everything: pub, spec, team, ?chats, PMs. And that's not a good solution because it prevents people from using bots, which in some cases are required in order to play.

I think it is necessary.
I also think it's necessary for you to stick around for the game to survive, otherwise one day something will break and nobody else will fix it.

I think it's entirely unnecessary. And I wouldn't contribute to a project that I don't believe in, and I certainly couldn't believe in one that would outright ban some of the more interesting discussions I've had over the years in any online space. TW is about spaceships shooting one another, but it's not just about this. You can have respectful discussions without inciting people. We're working on some rules tweaks that might be able to address this, though it would require more active moderation, which is difficult, considering the population. Still, we might see some progress. And hopefully outside of staff, we can come up with some effective ways to do this. This poll is an effective way to start the conversation, because it gets people talking about it outside of just forums. We need more conversation, more ideas, more solutions.

this is exactly what i have been saying...USE COMMON SENSE.

The problem with common sense is that it can be common only among a certain group of people. Those who appeal to common sense are rarely clear about what they mean when they say it. "You'll know it when you see it" is roughly what it equates to, and if you don't know, according to proponents of "common" sense, you're either lying or an idiot.

This is an international game. People come from many different cultures, with no true common sense between us. Rather than claiming whatever you don't like is common sense to be moderated, you instead need to define clearly what it is that should be moderated, so that it can be enforced by a group of individuals who do not in fact hold your sense in common, and who would not only arbitrarily enforce it, potentially in ways you disagree with, but almost certainly use it to satisfy personal vendettas on occasion.

Further reading on this common mistake in reasoning: https://yandoo.wordpress.com/2014/12...sense-fallacy/

I'm glad to see qan said he didn't like the idea.. but why post it then??.. Why allow a vote lolllllll ??.. poor leadership either way....

I'm much more interested in facilitating a democratic process to lead the zone, rather than leading it myself. Yes, I do see the irony (and perhaps hypocrisy) of an anti-authoritarian ending up in a position of authority. But I'm exactly one person. I don't matter all that much. Or, at least, certainly not any more than you or anyone else in the community.

[Jones]

No. Theres an ignore command

[Falconeer]

This is a good idea. It can be done with ASSS, but Joris is incorrect in thinking that it can be done with subgame. In order to prevent the server from broadcasting a packet to all players, you need to be able to control the server. Subgame bots are client emulators and can only send packets to the server, which the server then processes. The short of this is, you can't lock public chat messages for individual players; you can only *shutup, which locks everything: pub, spec, team, ?chats, PMs. And that's not a good solution because it prevents people from using bots, which in some cases are required in order to play.

Why aren't you on AS3 already, this is something I've drilled Beer Hunter about for DSB for 5 years now. It takes 1 week to officially move to AS3 in DSBs case and this guy hasn't done it in 5 years. Now you know why I shit on staff everywhere, thank beer hunter. In DSB you literally have to just apply Jowies plugins so the bots work, and it would take a day or two to test on the test server. For TW it might be more involved but still possible. The fact that you're using some antiquated system for server hosting shows you're wasting your fucking time policing people instead of developing. If I ran this zone I would have pushed for AS3 and been there already, and I would have had a ton more moderating and developing options open to me by now as a result. And bullshit to the age old excuse that it's unstable. Make bots if you're going to fuck up module coding and crash the server. With Bots AS3 is perfectly fine. I don't see devastation crashing, not even once a year.

[Guest]

"The problem with common sense is that it can be common only among a certain group of people. Those who appeal to common sense are rarely clear about what they mean when they say it. "You'll know it when you see it" is roughly what it equates to, and if you don't know, according to proponents of "common" sense, you're either lying or an idiot."

its not. that. hard.

https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png

[Falconeer]

FalconeerToday at 12:39 PM
another reason subgame sucks, you can't have proper moderation, dunno why these people are all on subgame still.
priitk doesn't talk, so why is he hosting? i'd have moved to my own host 10 years ago if i was TW.
even better if he gets upset maybe he will shut the game down do us all a favor, or he will log on for once
or he does nothing and we have AS3 and better zones in long run
dunno why you guys letting priitk host

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JorisToday at 12:40 PM
1) who will host it
2) will priit whitelist the new server for SSC?
3) no one knows which files are in TW (subarena maps, lvz, etc), only priit has the full file list
4) will cost a lot of time

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FalconeerToday at 12:40 PM
3) theyll still be somewhere and priitk will have them
dont really need what nobody knows about and isn't used
example some arena exists called #privateamazinggamemode
who cares? nobody knows it exists
it's not a loss then cause we dont even know
rofl
why you relying on Priitk for anything
isn't the client hacked?
they should have put their own billing server by now
just hack out the red text
that says its not an official server
make the new billing the legitimate one
i dunno who will host it, maybe argyle will
he hosts DSB for free
he's actually around
maybe you will
you host servers

[Falconeer]

Death+ and some others were doing their own billing server, and it was halted by the shit head SSCouncil.

Can we stop letting a 20 years inactive retard hold the game hostage?

https://shanky.com/viewtopic.php?p=7...b5e6a5fc#78241

Ignore the security warning, the site works.

[Rab]

This has taken too long, the game is completely dead now.
RIP TW

[raizin]

literally Hitler at this point.

[qan]

Preliminary vote tally before verification:

10 in favor, or 20.83%
38 opposed, or 79.17%

If it's important for anyone, I can come up with a way of showing unique identities without giving away who exactly voted which way. (Maybe just a list of those who voted would be enough? That's the way it's done in most elections, showing who voted, and not what they voted for.)