Pub: FreeSpirit

[Rab]

Let's keep this about what a person does rather than who they are.

What happens
Every pub round, FreeSpirit (terr) lays a port on the flag, then fucks off out of the base. If he dies, he tries again.
When the flag round is about to end, he ports onto the flag, claims it, lays another port, and fucks off out of the base again.

Why it matters
Having your base terr part of the time trying to get into fr, and part of the time not at all trying to get into fr, wrecks the round for that team.
If everyone understood this situation, they could get around it by someone else being base terr and never attaching to FreeSpirit, but this doesn't happen.
So what happens is people get mad, lose the round, and then people from that team spec, and the teams become imbalanced.
Just watch a few rounds of FreeSpirit and you'll see his team is always the one that collapses.

What might we do?
Here are some options that might resolve this without having too complicated consequences:
A. The easiest option is to ban FreeSpirit. We lose 1 player for the greater good.
B. Remove the reward for claiming the flag with low time remaining. No reward. No arena message. I don't know if he's doing it for the reward, but there's one way to find out.
C. Carrot. Create a reward for time the terr spends in the flag room.
D. Stick. Create a punishment for time the terr spends out of the flag room.

[Lupin]

I've never had an issue with FreeSpirit and he is also one of pub's most active terriers. Banning him for utilizing a current game mechanic is unwarranted imo. It seems the issue is the mechanic itself. I do like option C that you posted. It doesn't punish any players, but rather rewards players for a desired behavior.

[BIET]

We have looked a couple of times at the issue of terriers not being interested to fight within the flagroom. There should definitely be a reward for terriers staying in the flagroom instead of camping in a tunnel or using their portal to warp from a remote spot at the last second. Option C might get terriers to play closer to the flag and hopefully make for better flagroom battles. The biggest reason why this isn't implemented yet is due to the fact that we can't receive location packets reliably enough. The location is reliable whenever a person dies or kills a player, that is what the killothon module uses to check if a player is in base or not.
Going for option B is not an option since that would affect more than just terriers. I do feel like the messages could be moved out of chat and be replaced by a less in-your-face screen graphic.
Option A and D, no.

[qan]

I think C is something everyone can agree on. There's really no loss rewarding Terrs who stay in FR. Honestly can't see a downside (which is a bit of a rarity). Someone might still be able to game it, of course, but that's always the case.

Currently there's a small bonus given to a Terr if it's the only Terr on the frequency and it's at least in the base, done every 2 minutes. Not so effective.

A possibility for implementation of this idea is to check FR position of each Terr every 10 seconds (or so). (As BIET says, position is quite unreliable, but whether or not someone's in FR is actually one of the most reliable positions, because more players are near FR. Don't want to get too far into technical specifics but it's not too bad for general purposes.) Then, based on the percentage of the time in the flagroom, give a bonus at the end of the round. The award could possibly be based off the end-round bonus, with perhaps a minimum if you're in the FR for X percentage of the time. And perhaps the bonus could even given to losing Terrs, though obviously a smaller percentage. Awarding BaseTerrs at round end regardless of if they win or lose might be a good step in the right direction. Also, it might offset the increased gains seen by fighting ships vs support ships with the new milestones. If anyone's got any interesting formula ideas, it's a good place to brainstorm.

Alternatively, a bonus could be awarded periodically throughout the round. However, this would have to be noticable enough to get players to actually change their behavior based on it without being annoying.

[Rab]

And at the end of the round the "best terr" should be whoever got the most of that bonus.

[Rab]

Also maybe B should be split.

B1 - remove pubbux reward for claiming flag with low time remaining.

B2 - remove arena message for claiming flag with low time remaining.

I mostly think it's B1 that needs to happen and think people mostly object to B2. Thoughts?

[Falconeer]

Can the people with ban powers smurf and fake disappear so rab can kiss his own ass whenever he wants to ban people instead of bringing up ban like it's a viable option. That's basically what they did in hockey zone, no one knows who has access to ban powers anymore. Any future clients should be made without ban functionality.

Anyway your account of what freespirit does it misleading at best and at worst it's bias and wrong.
"Having your base terr part of the time trying to get into fr, and part of the time not at all trying to get into fr, wrecks the round for that team."

Freespirits team is usually the team with the terr that wins, if you want to debate this we can solve it by counting his wins every time he plays, or finding stats on it. Also he doesn't stay out of the main base, he only does that when the teams are already seriously imbalanced or uneven somehow. Every time i play with him our team wins, and he's in the base.

[Lupin]

Currently there's a small bonus given to a Terr if it's the only Terr on the frequency and it's at least in the base, done every 2 minutes. Not so effective.

...

Alternatively, a bonus could be awarded periodically throughout the round. However, this would have to be noticable enough to get players to actually change their behavior based on it without being annoying.

You could supplement the already-existing periodic bonus with an extra bonus for being in the flagroom every 2 minutes. Wording could be like "Extra bonus for staying in the flag room: $X" where X can perhaps be a function of time spent in the flag room since the last notification, or in the round thus far.

Also maybe B should be split.

B1 - remove pubbux reward for claiming flag with low time remaining.

B2 - remove arena message for claiming flag with low time remaining.

I mostly think it's B1 that needs to happen and think people mostly object to B2. Thoughts?

Claiming flag with low time remaining is still a valid mechanic and something that brings excitement (and frustration) to the game. I don't think it should be de-incentivized but it could be worth a try. For better or worse longer flag games keep people playing longer.

[Rab]

You could supplement the already-existing periodic bonus with an extra bonus for being in the flagroom every 2 minutes. Wording could be like "Extra bonus for staying in the flag room: $X" where X can perhaps be a function of time spent in the flag room since the last notification, or in the round thus far.

Quite like this.

Claiming flag with low time remaining is still a valid mechanic and something that brings excitement (and frustration) to the game. I don't think it should be de-incentivized but it could be worth a try. For better or worse longer flag games keep people playing longer.

Generally agree, apart from those annoying weasels who also try to get the flag at the last second and that's all they do. De-incentivizing that would be a bonus.

[Falconeer]

Rab you're a control freak. Who rage bans anything he doesn't like. I almost want Qan to give you admin so your behaviour and who you really are is exposed to the entire community. Right now it's just words.

How about let people play the way they want to? The game isn't meant to satisfy your every need, or be your personal playground... what else is a ship that can cloak supposed to do except use that to grab the flag at the last second. Just like a ship with repels will spam repels last second to grab the flag.

FYI i've never seen a weasel win at grabbing flags, a terr burst spams it, a shark repels it to oblivion, and you can see the ship on your radar from a mile away. It's really a none issue with the weasel only gaining the flag if you are occupied in other battles or if the flag is deserted.

If you want to de-incentivize people who get in weasel last second to grab flags you could disable ship changes when the flag begins its count down. But that doesn't stop people from spec entering as weasel to grab the flag.

[Rab]

dunno what game you've been watching but it aint tw pub. don't comment on something you know nothing about. and fuck off out of my thread you troll cunt. ty.

[Falconeer]

Whats wrong with being a troll? by your words here today you qualify for the same title. Unless you're serious, then your title would be fascist.

You probably never played a day in your life. Seems you like hanging out in twdd arenas more.

Someone give this guy sysop powers, don't worry you can unban the 100 people he eventually bans and then we can watch the community recognize and shun what he truly is.

[Falconeer]

See the difference between me and you, is i don't judge people based on titles or labels. In society if you acted the same way you act here then you might be the person who hates someone for being black, or hates the homeless man for not having a job. Your hate of me is rooted in my label, i am not a person or a human to you just a troll... a similar analogy would be disliking cockroaches because they are cockroaches.

Except humans are complex, words don't define someone as good or evil, neither would a single good or bad action be the sum of who a person is, and there is no dichotomy between good and evil either. Very good people can have bad behaviours or do a bad thing. Very bad people can sometimes do a good thing, or have good behaviours. It's sad that people are in their 30's and don't realize this. It's also sad if you think you are exempt from making mistakes or from having bad behaviours, anyone can fall from grace, it's very easy... but it's less easy when you have an awareness that it's possible. It's sad that you judge others for trolling while literally acting no better with your own words or even actions. A good leader would have a perspective where everyone is a person who is good or can be good, which means they would be confronted with a troll and not hate them or consider them bad, but actually be able to relate and understand how to *change* the situation into something positive.

What i did here, was disagree with your statements to ban people simply for playing the game and challenged it. You responded by lashing out and using derogatory names. You can dislike my actions, but when you start hating a person based on a label that's quite different. You are no better than manco because you similarly spread a culture of abuse.

My way of giving people chances, and making something positive out of a bad situation is to give people the power to act freely. If I ran a zone you wanted changes in, i would literally sysop you and let you handle and deal with the community. Your actions would speak for themselves. There would be actual evidence based on outcomes; if your interests are for the greater good or just selfish. From then on you would either be exposed and never trusted again (maybe you'll ban everyone), or you would prove me wrong and be one of the best leaders, which is a win too. In other-words i'd quite literally throw the ball in your court and observe. Qan and others opt for a more stable environment that doesn't cause anyone unnecessary pain or suffering, which is probably best, since a lot drama even if it lasted a day or a week would still cause some harm.

[Falconeer]

i just came across this article... the way to be a positive influence, is to be positive, otherwise it's just a cycle of abuse. This is why i trust people, you encourage the good in others with trust, but you are always prepared if someone breaks that trust (by simply backing up files). In some cases someone's trust, or having that relationship is more important than the loss of a few files or extra work... so for a long time i've said the statement "you push me in the mud then accuse me of being dirty"... taken in a different context it basically means treat people the way you want them to be. If you're always attacking them, accusing them, fighting with them, you will only get the same back, or no change at all.

Understanding the Pygmalion effect is a powerful way to positively affect those around us, from our children and friends to employees and leaders. If we don?t take into account the ramifications of our expectations, we may miss out on the dramatic benefits of holding high standards.
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...ing-them-right

[Rab]

plz be the first person on the moon without aid of a spacecraft, ty.