Pub Proposal

[Lizzo]

Funny how everyone complaining thinks the bombs by the most prolific Levis are random. watch radar and don't suicide shark or stay at red in a pew pew ship in cram and you most likely won't die from attacks you process as random. watch the radar and adapt play style to ships enemy team using? The people complaining here die so easy... No joke 10:1. In spawn, they are 1:3 which is beyond sad. The best players prob 1:2 against Levi in base, which is impressive. They know who they are. They aren't the ones in spawn or weaseling around

[Rab]

Levi actually can't even try to base because the automatic tk bot ship changes u. tks are unavoidable with so many noobs in.

And the warp-on death thing means there aren't many players flying up from spawn, so levis don't get challenged. People you do encounter let you live for some reason.

[Turban]

It's a shame we don't have the population to support multiple public arenas like in the good old days. I still strongly believe that Leviathans have no place in public unless we were to implement a way to prevent them from flying outside flag room and blasting 10+ players at once. It's not a fun gaming experience and has in the long run hurt our zone. Leviathan itself, or at least the way its being used, goes against the mission statement of our zone.

However it's probably already too late to make such drastic change when our player base is getting close to an all-time low. I liked the old pure public with no !buy items. It was a simple yet enjoyable time.

[Rab]

time to find other games folks. this shit ain't getting fixed with current staff.

[Lizzo]

^^^^ 1280 message

[Poseidon]

The issue is people and time. Even if you have solutions to fix (some of) the issues pub has, who's going to make those changes? You need someone with both the knowhow and the time to make said changes. And even then, working on those changes is the least thankful task in the whole of TW, except for moderating perhaps.

It has been a while since I've touched pub personally. And while I had fun adding new flag modes and updating the overlay, working on TWL and TWDT was just so much more rewarding. I haven't fully recovered from the last TWL, and going back to working on pub really doesn't motivate me all that much. Don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree with all that is wrong with pub, and generally have a similar solution in mind, it's just that making those changes will makes those who feel oppressed and limited, even more oppressed and limited, and those who benefit from the changes will find something else wrong to complain about. I've started on a new afk check system months ago, and will try to get that up and running soon. For anything else pub related, I currently don't feel like sinking time into that. Sorry.

its an issue, sure, but the bigger issue is getting the sysop to understand the concept of leadership. in all reality i have about 30 different proposals which could all potentially improve pub - am i supposed to make 30 threads with 30 polls to poll the 20 people who will bother to read it? the way qan is proposing to run things i truly find baffling.

as i mentioned elsewhere, as long as our emperor can give us the green light, i will do everything in my power to try to make it a reality, even if it means learning to code it myself. but initially i would try to seek out people who already know what they are doing and see if we can get something going. it seems like a simple thing to code.... just remove !buy attachmode and !buy purepub, and add a vote function on a timer which could be modeled after the already existing vote module u have for evening teams.


edit:

it's just that making those changes will makes those who feel oppressed and limited, even more oppressed and limited, and those who benefit from the changes will find something else wrong to complain about.

this is important to highlight. i feel it illustrates an essential problem i have with what i perceive as the attitude you and qan and etc take towards pub. basically you are saying something along the lines of "we dont want to upset the 15-20% minority even if pleasing the other 80% would mean a huge boost the the population of both pub and the zone at large".

am i somehow mistaken in this interpretation?

[1280]

Heres my propositions:


-Disable attach mode when game is over 5vs5 or maybe 4vs4. In bigger games attach mode is pretty much an endless cycle of deaths on attach and usually ends up in a situation where the whole team is in spawn area attaching each others. Attach mode also makes the rounds last forever. Its fun sometimes but many quit before round ends, causing an imbalance and a dull end for the round. Rather make round time a bit longer, it could be shorter when theres less people playing. Or maybe make a ?buy time -option, which would give a freq 10-60 secs more time. Extra time should be able to buy only once per freq /round. Imo attach mode should be removed completely to make people play more terr. Imagine making the key ship of trench wars obsolete.

-Disable sharks when game is under 8vs8 or something. Depending on population, max. 2 or 3 sharks per freq to avoid shitstorm of mines/bombs and everything getting repped. Too much bombs, mines and reps in fr simply ruins the game and makes it frustrating. In small games sharks just troll-mining entrances and sit in fr doing nothing except making the game boring as fk.

-Reduce shrap damage and speed. This should have been done long time ago and the overpowered shrap is probably one of the reasons why many quits terring. Its one hit kill on terr, which is quite fucking ridiculous.

Javs are problematic too. Theres so many brainless javs who just lob bombs from every direction, contributing to the mess of random bombs and shraps. Even if the shot is good, it probably gets repped and distracted -thanks to the ridiculous amount of sharks. BTW, i get killed and teamkilled a lot more by javs and sharks than levs. Sharks and javs are the real problem in pub basing, not levs.

-Remove the retarded suicide lag rocket or/and remove ?buy rocket option on jav. Stricter penalties of TK's, shiplocks , speclocks, w/e or just stop playing like an idiot.

-Make a cancel for javs and sharks. (yes, im serious)

-Delete ?buy fullcharge and shield. Two of the most incomprehensible implements in trench wars history.

-Delete purepub-mode or make it more expensive or make canceling it cheaper. I dont lev much but i like them and they bring a fun challenge and twist in to pub basing. Levs are also usefull for attacking and defending fr. For the crybabies: Learn to observe the game and your radar. Kill the sneaking levs in mid base and if you are terring, always have a portal set -basic things. Obsessive lev hate-hunting in spawn is just really a waste of time, energy and skills, which could be used for more creative things, things like basing.

Imagine canceling the most legendary and iconic ship in trenchwars OR Imagine being an old-school elite veteran and crying about levs or LT's and quitting because of them. It was a lot harder before. Remember when fr sides were open to bombs? or when you could bomb fr from spots in lower spawn or other long distances? Good times btw.

Besides, LT:ing and hunting LT's is great fun and a big, classic part of TW pub. BUT res should be limited to 1980x1080 or lower. Unlimited res gives too much advantage to LT's (they see everything from so far that it makes very hard to hunt them without anti and anti ruins everything) High res also helps too much people who hunt someone. I recently got hunted by a player who used 3840x2160 res (lol). Its basically same as spec hunting and makes radaring and stealth useless. Imo everyone should play on same res, something around the resolution which this game was made on. It probably was under 1980x1080. I dont even know why theres so many res options in a game like this. For those who say "its 2021 buy a bigger monitor" or "high res doesnt help you much" etc: Why is there a radar or stealth if you can see the whole arena on your screen?? The benefits of high res are undeniable.

On a side note: Back when i was LT:ing, if the population was low, we decided not to LT and joined basing because we didnt want to kill the game. I guess theres no moral or principles like that anymore -To all priv freq LT's and levs who portal in mid base and bomb fr when round start or use other abusive methods: its because of you there are made restrictions, limitations and annoying new rules and changes. I dont mind portal shots but at the round starts when most players are warped in fr its just selfish and lame and causes unnecessary hate and anger.

Another side note: Even one (1) somewhat good solo wb at base entrance or mid base can disturb the basers, especially the attacking ones so much that they quit playing. Ofc you can defend base like this too but im talking about the non-basing priv freq'ers. If youre not basing, atleast you could let the terriers go. Its no achievement to kill a terr with a wb, its one of the easiest things you can do in this game. Those wbs are another probable reasons why people dont wanna play terr. I dont quit because of them but i completely understand those who do quit.

[BIET]

The issue is people and time. Even if you have solutions to fix (some of) the issues pub has, who's going to make those changes? You need someone with both the knowhow and the time to make said changes. And even then, working on those changes is the least thankful task in the whole of TW, except for moderating perhaps.

It has been a while since I've touched pub personally. And while I had fun adding new flag modes and updating the overlay, working on TWL and TWDT was just so much more rewarding. I haven't fully recovered from the last TWL, and going back to working on pub really doesn't motivate me all that much. Don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree with all that is wrong with pub, and generally have a similar solution in mind, it's just that making those changes will makes those who feel oppressed and limited, even more oppressed and limited, and those who benefit from the changes will find something else wrong to complain about. I've started on a new afk check system months ago, and will try to get that up and running soon. For anything else pub related, I currently don't feel like sinking time into that. Sorry.

[Poseidon]

i want to say too...

i come on these forums and im and gnarling and scathing and its really because im only ever posting here when i try to go play pub and some avoidable bs happens that is ruining all sense of competitiveness of the game for everyone, making me rather spec....

so i come here in a pure state of emotion, which is anger.

so i come here and fight for this position out of 1. genuine concern and love for the game. and 2. as a way to vent my frustrations. the type of leg work your asking for is a waste of time and i feel its only serving as a distraction from addressing the actual points being made. if i didnt feel so powerless in the situation, im sure id feel differently... but as much as i wish i were somehow granted proxy to make slow, calculated, and successful changes towards a more even-keeled and competitive TW pub .... its beyond the scope of my kinetic resource to devote so much energy to having to brood about playing politics.

so im simply coming at you with fire and ultimately Science, and holding out the hope that the integrity of its institution may prevail. i hope you understand. truly, i wish you played more, or were around spectating me more often, as id imagine are some of the staffers who support the proposal... i think you'd understand my position better, and why im emphasizing certain aspects of my argument.

[Poseidon]

That's how we've generally made changes in the past, though these days we have the advantage of being able to much more easily vote. If something is a no-brainer/obvious direct improvement with no downsides and no opposition, that's easy enough to push ahead without a vote, too. You can also try talking to individual staffers who might want to more directly support an idea and put in work on it. A lot of success depends more on doing legwork/talking to people. That's usually enough to stop "TW saviors," as they shy away with having to actually do any work to compromise with anyone else's ideas or needs other than their own.

all of this red tape exists because you allow it to exist. its baffling that you'd stoop to such a low blow and throw around jabs about "leg work" considering ive not only sent you a however-many-pages detailed proposal to which you completely ignored, but also put in 100s and 100s of hours of real playtime into pub in the past year. ask your staffers.. ask biet, sprackle, etc... as you dont seem to be around to bear witness so far as i can tell. at any rate, you already have staff supporting the proposal. ive made about 30 different points to why voting is silly, none of which you've addressed. so what is there left to do other than simply try it out?

[Poseidon]

It's comical how similar your take is to that of literally dozens of people over the years. The similarities: 1) you have the perfect plan and all the answers; 2) you are completely confident in your abilities and can not fathom the possibility of failure; 3) if your plan is implemented and runs into the slightest stumbling block you'd disappear within a month and blame it on some outside force beyond your control.

That last one has yet to happen, but generally that's the case with what I've come to think of as people with "TW savior complex." Here's a wake-up call: There's no perfect plan and you're no perfect planner. Please get over yourself, quickly, for everyone's sake. It will certainly be easier to stomach.

what's comical is this half-finishd turd of a thought uve delievered to my doorstep... because had you finished it, nothing else you said would have made much sense. youv'e stated the similarities, but conveniently left out the differences:

1.

i am one of the best players to ever play this game, and my vision for seeing what pub can become follows as its reflection. its as simple as all this.

2. you, at your own admittance, have several members of your own staff interested in said proposal.

3. i have put forth reasoned arguments as to why this would be a superior pub format, to which you have yet to counter.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

now also let me correct what you erroneously assume are the similarities:

- i dont think im perfect or have all the answers
- i have already fathomed very much the possibility of failure. in fact i did so before making the proposal, and have reasonably concluded (and ull prob have a hard time convincing anyone otherwise) that very little to nothing significant would occur as windfall if this implementation were to fail. did you yourself fathom as well before making such an assumption, i wonder?
- as to number three, im simply flat out insulted, brother, not sure what else to say. disappointed you'd let the conversation take such a turn. hopefully we can get it back on track.

if you let me personally make the decisions and i had someone helping me reprogram simple tweaks & changes to pub... it would become a much more consistent and populated game. the base would have to be expanded to accommodate how many people would want to play. i would take care of this as well. i am one of the best players to ever play this game, and my vision for seeing what pub can become follows as its reflection. its as simple as all this.

i am busy. i am not interested in playing political games with you. the zone needs leadership. i come to you as someone with a genuine sense of vision and passion. i have already explained in great detail why i have no interested in your polls. you ignore these points and simply repeat yourself. let me requote one, least of all:

...where u seem intent on deadlocking any decision by demanding it be submitted to a vote, and on forums not even frequented by 90% of the pub population

its as if you seem intent on treating every proposition as equal, regardless of content or context.... ?????

[Lizzo]

POS is short for Pussydon

[qan]

if you let me personally make the decisions and i had someone helping me reprogram simple tweaks & changes to pub... it would become a much more consistent and populated game. the base would have to be expanded to accommodate how many people would want to play. i would take care of this as well. i am one of the best players to ever play this game, and my vision for seeing what pub can become follows as its reflection. its as simple as all this. i have explained some of the ways in which these things could be done, but the truth is i could probably write a dissertation on the subject.

It's comical how similar your take is to that of literally dozens of people over the years. The similarities: 1) you have the perfect plan and all the answers; 2) you are completely confident in your abilities and can not fathom the possibility of failure; 3) if your plan is implemented and runs into the slightest stumbling block you'd disappear within a month and blame it on some outside force beyond your control.

That last one has yet to happen, but generally that's the case with what I've come to think of as people with "TW savior complex." Here's a wake-up call: There's no perfect plan and you're no perfect planner. Please get over yourself, quickly, for everyone's sake. It will certainly be easier to stomach.

Once you've gotten over yourself and how wonderful, talented and intelligent you are, try and work with other people to find support for your idea. If you can gather some support, we can look at voting on it. I may be mistaken but I don't see much direct support in this thread ("I like this, let's vote on this idea", etc.).

If nobody's particularly interested in your proposal, you could try another angle.

That's how we've generally made changes in the past, though these days we have the advantage of being able to much more easily vote. If something is a no-brainer/obvious direct improvement with no downsides and no opposition, that's easy enough to push ahead without a vote, too. You can also try talking to individual staffers who might want to more directly support an idea and put in work on it. A lot of success depends more on doing legwork/talking to people. That's usually enough to stop "TW saviors," as they shy away with having to actually do any work to compromise with anyone else's ideas or needs other than their own.



For anyone else with an idea they'd like to put forward:
- Make a new thread
- State your idea concisely
- Ask people to support your idea
- Get enough support and we can look at a vote (criteria as yet tbd)

[Rab]

Item bux into pot, maybe. Some items are overpowered tho - shield is particularly game-breaking as it's a "buy this to stop them winning" button.

Reward for priv freq kills would push non-basing endeavours onto freqs 0 and 1. Very bad. There already is a reward for levi kills, for freq 99, which is good because it encourages hunters to use freq 99 instead of being on freq 0 and 1 and causing further imbalance.

Agree that flag rounds are too short. They should be at least double what they are currently.

Agree about less time in safe. 5 mins should be sufficient for someone to get the door or piss+drink.

Agree that we need automatic afk-checking. Atm it's me doing it manually all the time, and it's pissing me off.

Regarding terr warping, you can lurk in particular spots on the map to not get ship reset, so you can port into nme spawn ear and burst them on Go.

[Pineapple Express]

I also think the pubbux spent on items, should automatically be added onto the games jackpot.

Maybe award players $1000 pubbux for kills on private freq players. More for private frequently levs. Not sure how easily the coding would be for that though.

Make the games 2 minute minimum. 1.5 min is too short when teams become way uneven.

Lessen the allowed time in safes to like 1 min. That will decrease the time spent by players hunting private freqs. Maybe even allow a buy item to close a door on the safes. Set cheaper than purepub.

Set an idle timer on players who go afk in center. They can make teams uneven and when attach mode is on, it can screw up everything.

Slow down the speed of sharks shrap. It's ridiculous at times.

Also if you're terr and have it set to not warp you in base, it doesn't reset your items at the start of the new round. I haven't really paid attention to if it's true on all ship items.


Outside pub:

We need more events. Not sprack EG events. Not pictionary... There's so many events I haven't seen host in ages.