Pub Timed Matches

[Troll King]

All the better; in fact, I wouldn't have suggested it if it didn't affect all pubs. The change won't just benefit the purepubs or the timed pub, the benefits spread across the board. I really feel that this would make TW pubs a better overall product with better benefits and fewer snags than any other changes would have.

[Sarien]

There shouldn't be any "restrictions" on the number of ships in a public arena. That's just asking, no.. begging, for crap.

If limiting arena size is put in, why not make it 16, so that it's 8vs8.

Instead of replacing the weasel there have been lots more people saying replace the lev with the nightwasp. Look around. If you really want to put a basing emphasis in public arenas, there's one category of player that is more selfish than any other solo ship. LT's. It's standard fare for them to get on a private freq and bounce around bombing so as not to TK. That should tell you something, right there.

If the small size weasel is proving to be a problem, and I can see how it would, if there were 8 of them vs a terr and 10 other ships, coming from all directions, the solution would seem to be simple. Stop up the holes in the flagroom, or make the weasel full size again.

Why not: Keep current speed/rotation/bullet speed. Make the ship full size, cloak/stealth don't drain again. It keeps them from hounding the flagroom from all directions, lets them cloak without having to watch their energy as much as the enemy, and lets them still be maneuverable enough to kill. Or hell, full size with stealth, and let the weasel green cloak. That pretty much stops any quick respawn related problem anybody could have.

I like the team timed bot, and as much as I don't like him, I remember Stabwound suggesting it over a year ago, and I thought it was a fabulous idea then, and still do. A reward of a major amount of points for winning timed games, say 10,000 or 20,000 to a freq is a definite incentive. Add it to the flag points section of the scoring and you'll actually be able to spot the guys basing in the public score thingy. Then you'll see people using those scores to recruit better for TWBD. It'd be nice to see so many functional things going on at once.

All in all I think as I have thought and others have for quite a while. It's pretty much time for the publics to stop being shut off as "just pub". The public arenas need to be the game.

[Stultus]

Make the arena populations smaller.

If the small size weasel is proving to be a problem [...] make the weasel full size again.

Agreed; I've been suggesting both of those things for a while.

And as we know from the weasel's recent changes regarding drain, all new settings require is one very vocal person. How about 3?

[Troll King]

8 vs 8 won't work in pubs. As much as people would think that to be ideal, there's really no reason for it. I still don't know why TWB was set to 8 vs 8 in the first place. With an arena that small, the best you can hope for is if everyone bases and we know that won't happen. That will reduce the actual basing to likely 4 on 4. People often think of an ideal where everyone in pub is basing, but that is neither realistic nor necessary. It might even have a negative effect on total zone population as the non-basers would feel pressured into playing in a way they don't want to play. While basers and many of the zone's "elite" might like that, it won't benefit the zone.

I'm proposing just reducing the average arena size by 5 or 6. The change would be so subtle that it would be barely noticeable. Any effects on non-basers would be so subtle that they can't really complain about it. The actual benefits would be systemic. Problems with uneven teams would be reduced, and private freqs won't even be as bad a problem either. People who don't base and just fly around killing in the spawn zone can still do that, and they also won't be as big a problem to basers either; you'll have fewer people trying to kill you on your way back to the base.

[Sarien]

Makes sense to me, TK.

I know that qan and a lot of people including Stabwound and Kolar are trying to make things better.
I applaud that.

I just wish they'd take into account rather than random suggestions they come up with between themselves, the stuff the public players tend to say.

[Rudy]

This time I disagree TK, if you were to limit the sizes for all pubs, they would feel very empty indeed.
Even in purepubs, you can be garaunteed there's at least 4 people in spec on average, not including the bot. You'd have about 6 others dueling in spawn, and another 5 at least dicking around on the roof, leaving you with a maximum of 20 people slogging it out in lower base or the flag room.
So of the 35 remaining slots for players, minus the purepub bot, you only have 10 per freq actually basing, only two more than an organised base game anyway.
Further limiting the numbers on pubs will result in it becoming exactly like whatever the last pub on the arena list, a couple of birds flying aimlessly around the outside of base.
I'd prefer 12 newbie javs over one dead pub. How about you?

[Troll King]

You're forgetting that everything will be changed relatively.

I wouldn't use the purepub as an example first because a) there are only a couple and I'm looking at the bigger picture for all pubs, and the purepubs are more anomalies than the norm, and b) admittedly, I think the non-purepubs would benefit more, but then, they need more help than the purepubs do.

Secondly, those "birds flying aimlessly" arenas are the ones on the low end of the population spectrum. They'd have below 15 people in total, and that's far lower than what I'm proposing. If we reduce the arena sizes across the board, then the larger arenas will be from 25 to 30 in size. Those "aimless" arenas will also have been proportionally reduced to about 12 or 13.

Thirdly, It's been my experience that pub arenas with 25 to 30 tend to have better basing than an arena with 30 to 35. You're looking at the number of people basing after subtracting the others, but I'm looking at the population as a whole, basing or otherwise. With smaller arenas (and more of them as a result) the proportion of people spawn killing or hanging around the roof will also be decreased proportionately. With those problems lessened, they become less of a problem. Take a look at levis for example. If you decrease the arenas by 5 you can almost guarentee that there will be an average of one less levi per arena. That's already a good start. Now, you might argue that proportions and averages only give a general number but don't reflect the actual data, but think about it: say there are X number of people flying levis at any one time. With smaller arena sizes, that same number of levis are spread out a bit among more arenas. Even if you do find yourself in an arena with more levis than average, that just means that there's another arena or two out there with fewer levis than average.

I'm suggesting a reduction in the total arena populations by just a couple. I don't know what number would be optimal, so it may take some adjustment. I don't see the arenas shrinking enough that you'll feel they are empty. If by empty you mean that you won't see a 10 on 10 battle in the flag room, then that's actually a good thing. You wouldn't get an "empty" feeling because everything would have been reduced. You have to look at it relatively.

[Rudy]

That might suit you fine, but I get personally offended when I don't have at least 7 other teammates either in or around the flag room doing their upmost to either attack or defend it. Reducing the limit isn't going to reflect a physical downsize of the population of those who aren't basing it, it will only disguise it.
If for instance the limit was decreased, it doesn't necessarily mean those who have been shafted to a non purepub happen to be all the spawnbirds who would otherwise be there. I'm willing to take the odds you're more likely to find your hardcore flagging enthusiast locked out instead.
Since the whole objective is to get people in bases, kicking them to a less populated arena is far from the appropriate course of action, especially if all the arenas that aren't full, purepub or no, seem disinterested in the base at the time.
Half of the attraction to purepubs aside from the obvious is that you will moreoften find the more talented pub players roaming in them. Players who are on the whole, more interesting to talk to. Personally, I don't step foot outside of purepubs, and if unable to join one or the other, would rather sit in spec than actually spend my time amongst LTs. At this point you could suggest implementing more purepub bots, but I'd prefer if the levi problem was solved across the board so there wouldn't be a need for more bots. But since we all know that is never going to happen...
I have faith in the belief that getting a solid flagging team together really only depends on two key factors; inspiration, and a decent terrier. The numbers have nothing to do with it.

[Theif of Time]

The timed games tend to get a little tiring when its 4 minutes to win, we usually get to about 30 seconds-1 minute to go and either a weasel comes and takes it, or, with about the same frequency, a laggy rocketing jav does the same. Yeah, these can both be fought off. But when it goes on for 20 minutes, it gets a little tiring. My team gave up and went roofing.
Can't it, I don't know, maybe reduce the time if it goes on to long? say reduce it by 5-10 seconds every time it changes hands, to a minimum of 2.5 mins

[Kolar]

8 vs 8 won't work in pubs. As much as people would think that to be ideal, there's really no reason for it. I still don't know why TWB was set to 8 vs 8 in the first place.

Try playing boki or something else, with more then 8vs8, not only is it crappy for competitive play it lags like hell.

I don't think we need to restrict more ships but we do need to start developing them and updating pubs like this. I think pure pubs were really a quick fix because staff didn't want to decide to remove the levi, which even now would cause a great drop in population. I can see a few options for timed publics, revert the weasel back to normal size, put the NW back or switch over to pure time race.

[Troll King]

My point is that larger arenas create more factors that make people not want to base. You have more levis, more private freqs, more spawnkillers, uneven teams and more roofers. If you decrease the arena size by 5, then the average freq size would decrease by just two. Go into a large pub today and you'll see a freq of 13. Decreasing it to 11 won't affect you as much as you think it would. With a smaller arena size, all of these factors are lessened which makes it easier to get basing started even if the arena hadn't been basing to begin with.

The problems you are talking about are the reality of all pubs. You'll rarely get more than 7 people to base with you, and if then it's even more rare to get the same on the opposing team. If you expect to only play when you have 7 on 7 then you're living a pipe dream. With that attitude in mind you won't ever see an improvement in pub. This zone has a long ways to go before 7 on 7 in pubs is a regular occurance. There won't ever be a magic formula to get everyone in TW to base. If all you want to do is stick to the purepubs, and all the "good" players want to do the same then regular pubs are already lost and as much as people might not care about that, that's a sure sign of a zone in trouble.

[Theif of Time]

Earlier on in Pure pub the majority was basing, but oh god please do something about the little weasels... nightwasp, size increase... whatever but do it, and do it fast.

[PH]

But ruining basing with the little fuckers is fun. Who cares if it wrecks the game for everyone else?

[Sarien]

I think pure pubs were really a quick fix because staff didn't want to decide to remove the levi, which even now would cause a great drop in population.

What?

How would it cause "a great drop in population"?

First:
The people that would leave, why would you want them around? Seriously, think about it. If they're such dedicated LT's that they would leave the zone and never return, then aren't those the very people that aren't public basing and such that you want rid of and are forcing these changes to begin with?

Second:
Where are they going to go exactly? Do you have so little faith in the entire rest of the zone that you just expect players to all go "this place sucks" and leave? It sounds a whole lot like an excuse, to me.


First impressions count for a lot, and when a player enters TW for the very first time and is dropped into a public arena, he should see what the game is. He/she should see people basing, and have these same people say "this is how you do this game". Not LevTerring, if that's the first thing you learn, that's what you're going to do.

[Theif of Time]

But ruining basing with the little fuckers is fun. Who cares if it wrecks the game for everyone else?

It gets tiring after an hour long game with no finish, when 1 team is clearly dominating.
But yeah, its fun, sometimes