Publics

[Ephemeral]

We support whining, bitching, and stupidity by allowing these LT/Lev discussions to take place. Simply put, LT's encourage teamwork. There IS a counter balance for this situation, it's called 'antiwarp'. Yet virtually no one uses it or can be bothered to communicate enough with others in his pub freq for it to be effective.

So by having discussions on whether or not to change the ship/map we are giving up and taking the easy road. This is what frustrates me about this community, so many people think that doing a few easy things from the bottom up will fix everything. Why TW is declining is not an easy issue. It will not be fixed, or even understood, from dealing with small details. This is exactly what has been attempted for years and has failed for many years. Ship and map changes are no panacea for the issue that needs to be addressed. A holistic approach has to be used if we don't want 'more of the same'.

How do we increase communication so things like 'antiwarp' are being used effectively? How can we decrease staff turn-over? How we are going to reward staff people who are willing to dedicate so much time to this game? How can we use peer pressure to stop other players who cheat and lag induce. How can we improve Bot coding? How can we use education to make the over-all game more attractive to new AND old players? Is there value in trying to decrease some of the diversity in the TW zone and concentrating on core competencies?

[Richard Creager]

lol, izor is the one with logic in this thread it seems, everyone else is saying the same stuff over and over and over again.

Switching guns because your last shit got shot down hard!=logic.

'the purpose of the game'

THE PURPOSE IS PUBS IS TO HOLD THE FLAG, YOU GET MORE POINTS PER KILL, HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND?

I truly question how you feel you can just declare basing as the primary focus of this zone

Because pubs ARE the primary purpose of this zone and is what the zone was made for, why the fuck do you even fucking THINK they call it the goddamn TRENCH? DOES TRENCH MEAN RUNNING AROUND IN AN ASTEROID ENCASED WIDE OPEN SPACE SHOOTING AROUND?!? The fucking flag was put there for a reason and if it had not been the very premise of this zone from the beginning it would not have been there and would not be there today.

Lem - when a new player comes into one of those bottom pubs its just not fun, that is the logic behind that statement.

What? I don't see any logical reasoning at all, all I see is a quick observational statement, tell me, why are the bottom pubs not fun?

The top pubs are without a doubt more fun, and they suck the life out of those.

Why are the top pubs more fun?

Whats the point of having levterrs fly around if all the basers can go to a pub that doesnt allow them?

I agree, that's why either all but the last or exactly half of the pubs should be pure. More available purebasing pubs, more basing, less having to fucking trek spawn and the roof chasing down some fag in ship 4. (WHICH BY THE WAY IS EXTREMELY DETRIMENTAL TO BASING SINCE UH nOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TWO GUYS NOT IN THERE BUT NOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE EXACTLY HAVE TO LEAVE IT TO GET RID OF THEM, LESS PEOPLE GOING FOR THE BASE MEANS SICKER AND MORE COMPETITIVE BASING AMIRITE? GB2/?go base THANKS)

Furthermore, newer players who may want to base will be discouraged because no one else is there,

I wonder why no one else is there, hmmm wait I heard levs were in those arenas, well I can now understand WHY no one would want to go to those arenas.

and they're getting pounded by greedy levis who see their only target. It used to be that they'd see smarter players shooting through holes strategically to get the LTs (Talon + Daze + some whiterabbits)

Uh wtf are you talking about? Talon and Daze camped roof all day, where the hell is this hole shooting you're "remembering"?

but now those smarter players are in the top 2 pubs, and no one is there to stop them from being killed over and over and over again.

So let's bring in someone to stop them from being killed over and over again, he's a cool guy, I think you'll like him, his name is pubbot.

Sorry, I still don't understand why having different pubs is damaging.

It isn't that having different pubs is damaging, its that there aren't enough pubs being pure and therefore being able to be played in by anyone with half a brain who has ever logged into this game previously. As it stands, there are only two playable pubs, only two purepubs, that's 72 people at most (including the numbers of speccers as players) and you wonder why people don't like the pubs when they're only open for 72 slots, it seemed like the solution was so glaringly fucking obvious that everyone would be able to tell, just add more pubs into the pure roster and give additional sets of 36 slots, more players get to play a real game in pub, the game that pub was created for, an intense game that has hooked many and by far the majority of pub (mind you, I did not say the majority of the zone, I don't give two yellow shits about what the fuck the rest of the zone does, because guess what THEY HAVE SUBARENAS FOR THAT SHIT so don't come crying to me about how 'it's the minority of the zone' because it matters not shit when what we're talking about is pub and pub only) but of course isn't able to hook those in the lower ones which are different (and this is how the idea that different==bad comes about) and have levs in them which do two very distinct things 1) prevent old players from ever hoping to care about such a pub, and 2) completely ruins the flagroom (AGAIN the very fucking reason pub exists at all) for those who are left, causing them to ultimately never care about such pubs again either.

How much more simpler can it get? Just add more pures, if people want to lev, they'll crowd up in the lower pubs, if people would ever want to play with levs about, they can go hunt them in the lower pubs, but limiting the number of arenas that are rightly free of the monstrosities is the direct cause of this population decline (outside of course the other MAJOR factors like oh I dunno, OTHER games being released over time and people stopping this when all their friends have moved onto EQ2 or random korean point and click rpg #2438923742387923 on top of the factors that have always caused declines in the playerbase like getting 'lives', having to attend schooling or living in a new area). If enough people REALLY want to play with levs than new pubs will be created naturally by the server like always, and of course there won't be a bot in it so there's your compromise, but I agree, keeping such a pitifully low number of pubs dedicated to basing is no compromise at all, however, IT IS WOLRDS BETTER THAN HAVING NONE OF THEM PURE.

[Richard Creager]

We support whining, bitching, and stupidity by allowing these LT/Lev discussions to take place. Simply put, LT's encourage teamwork. There IS a counter balance for this situation, it's called 'antiwarp'.

Yeah I'm going to go the fuck all the way to safe to buy anti, attach back, next second a blue ball hits the base, oops im already dead and I didn't get a chance to turn on anti to drain the fuck out of my energy while I'm trying to defend base, good try buck-o, but do fuck off.

[Ephemeral]

Yeah I'm going to go the fuck all the way to safe to buy anti, attach back, next second a blue ball hits the base, oops im already dead and I didn't get a chance to turn on anti to drain the fuck out of my energy while I'm trying to defend base, good try buck-o, but do fuck off.

Sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong. I am willing to show you, let's set up a time where you LT and one other person LT's, and I will get myself and one other person to set up anti and hunt you. We will see who fucks off.

[Doc Flabby]

Sorry, I still don't understand why having different pubs is damaging. Moot has tried to explain it, but I can't see it.

Beacuse pub 0 takes all the basers away from the other pubs....which means no one based in the lower pubs which means LTing is boring no basers to kill

[Vehicle]

Lem, I discussed why different pubs is damaging in an earlier post. By having different pubs you seperate the community of pub players. All the basers are in the first 2 pubs, all the other pubs are 1/2 full with warbirds in spawn and that's about it. This is not good. By having every pub be the same, people will have no reason to switch from pub to pub, keeping the community as a community instead of seperating them based on their choice of gameplay.

Oh, and instead of not allowing private frequencies, how about you just don't allow levi's on any freq except 0 and 1. That way, the levi will have to be used as a basing tool, instead of a laming tool. Either way, the levi will be able to cause damage, but people dealt with it before, they can deal with it now. It's not that hard to keep levi's from getting to 20 bounty.

[dads revenge]

Ok there is alot in this thread to read {which I didn't do} so excuse me if I repeat.

1)the side holes of the fr:when they were changed it eliminated 3 bursts that a terr could use to get those annoying javs from the sides.

2)save the pure pub:this allows basers to base properly in pub {well somewhat} maybe raise the prize bounty at the end of the rounds since some pubbers care more about the overall score then anything else.

3)map changes:About 2 years ago I think it was there was a test of new pub maps and the public spoke loud and clear then "NO" even though there were some very good entries the public still held firm they liked the map the way it was.

4)stopping the LT:Well you cant. Back when all I did was pub the mass side shot kills were $$ but the more effective kills to build your bounty were done from inside so you may not want to drive the LTs closer to your team.Oldschool it was the sharks responsibility to rep when the lts came around and the Terr had to stay away from the danger spots.{you can edit the ship restrictions to 1 or 2 levs per freq}.

5}something to annoy:Maybe focus on the idiots who think they can jav aka ship restrict each freq to 3 javs. A freq with 8 javs in base is the quickest way to ruin the game due to tks from players screwing up shots and people blasting a shark who is trying to rep or mine the cram or the random tking their own terr.

well thats all I can think of this time in the morning {post numbered so Richard Creager doesn't have to quote 300 times}

[Fluffz]

the highest peak times were basing weekends. but these player amounts were not reached because of the great pubs back than, the were reached because of the downfall of other zones and hosted events. so much for that.

Sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong. I am willing to show you, let's set up a time where you LT and one other person LT's, and I will get myself and one other person to set up anti and hunt you. We will see who fucks off.

you need to kill 10 LTs to be able to afford buying antiwarp a single time. in the time you will need to hunt down that LT and get 2 kills he will get a lot more. if you need 1 antiterr for each LT than who is going to stay in base? the LT has 10 kills before you notice him and reach save to buy anti. if you dont kill the LT surprisingly he will outcamp you in save. will you win a duel with a spiderterr vs a leviterr? prolly. will any LT ever duel you? naw, they shoot at left side of base when you are right and run (as fast as you).

Simply put, LT's encourage teamwork.

i am 100% against this map change but it would still be much better than this "top down view" of yours. ill stick to band aids, thanks. why are you arguing like there is no problem with this damn ship? this is what i thought at first but than i recalled some memories of guiding levis into base with my wb. good times. the unattached levi is quite a nice ship. however, it is overpowered, the shrap levi was a good alternative

werent we at this point already when Priitk himself spoke a powerword and saved the levi bomb? i can recall something there, maybe i am dreaming.

[Doc Flabby]

i dont think further restrictions on ships in pub is the answer....

Alot of people were talking about BaseBot in a pure-pub i was in a while ago what was that? apparently it was really good and people acctually worked as a team in pub . Wish i had the conv logged of the people talking bout it.....

The levi bomb shouldnt be changed. Blowing up 6+ ships at once on the screen is not possible in ANY other zone. and is what makes TW unique. I'd like to see a ?go base game with levi allowed (3 sharks allowed also though), just to see what it would be like. Would it really destroy basing? or would it prove ineffective.

[Fluffz]

its a time race bot like the game mode is in ?go base with a mvp list at the end of 10 mins. it was full of bugs tho and i think it did not give bounty rawards. other than that its the same as robobo basically

[Pressure Drop]

You started playing in pure pub times I'm pretty sure. It's no surprise that you cant remember before that, when basers and levs coexisted, cause you werent here. This is the kind of input that I hate to see: its people who dont know what theyre talking about ranting..

Izor you may hate input like mine
but i hate idiots that make rash assumptions and tell me how i started playing,

so to correct you , sure as you might be,
i started playing before pure pub and i remember what it was like before then

my forum name is 3 months older than yours for a start and i've been playing longer than that befor i joined the forums.

don't start talking shit to me about not playing before purepubs when your plucking it out off your arse...

[Sufficient]

You know in the end, only a few minor changes will be made, and most of the suggestions listed here will not be implemented. And there is still no sense of ship balance/cohesiveness since TW has been established. Weasels levs are pub ships or useless ships, spid terr lanc shark are basing/teamwork ships, and wb jav are dueling ships. This zone seriously has multiple personalities.

[Doc Flabby]

This zone seriously has multiple personalities.

which is why its so good. In most zones its hard to tell one ship from another. In TW each ship is clearly different to the rest.

weasels and levs are not useless they are the fun ships of the zone

killing 6+ people in a single shot is not possible in any other zone. Its alot of fun.
weasel is entertaining too, want your revenge on that "vet" whos trashtalking you in pub, hunt them with a weasel

[Zerzera]

You would think if basing was some great thing, that people would play it more often, right? But no, people are playing wb. That is why LD has been and will continue to be the premiere league in this zone. Its great that people like basing and all, but there is no need to force basing on people in pub. Pub is where a player should come in and choose what aspect of tw he likes most.

It's not much fun to base 4v4.
Dueling takes only 2 people and can't be disturbed really.

The fact that subgames in a zone can be easily maintained doesn't mean you shouldn't try to create an enviroment to support the game that's supposed to be the zones main-game.
[Just because grass and weeds grow the easiest in your garden doesn't mean you shouldn't care for your flowers. - God I hate analogies]

I don't feel like counting sub-communities, but in average the basing community has been bigger an tighter. I also believe that most efforts in the zone were done by people who could be either counted to 'no sub-community' or the basing community.
Am I wrong here? What was created by a pure dueler for duelers only? Maybe Sika, but last time I checked Sika is into about anything subspace as game has to offer. Where did elim spawn from? Where did TWDD spawn from?

It shows at these forums, where basers always had the loudest voice, not because they are the greatest pricks, but because they actually wanted to be involved. It's no coincedence that basing is more of a teamgame than dueling. (At least before the cram it was, maybe not anymore.)

If you want to show us that there are more duelers than basers in the zone, please give us some figures. The fact that more TWDDs are played isn't really an argument because TWDDS are alot easier to set up.
Before zoners for ?go base were allowed there would still be more people there than elim (most zonered event in the zone).

I am still waiting for actual proof that the decline of TW was caused by pure pub. Give me the date that saw the absolute prime of TW population-wise, then the date at which pure-pub was introduced. I bet you don't even know.
You can't connect two events like that just because they seemed to happen at the same time. (3 years ago?).

Actually I am quite sure though that they both happened at the same time:
The server changed, the best dean of all times quit, the zone grew faster than staff could handle.
Publics were fuller than ever, but with that the flaws (inbalances) became visible, staff tried to fix the pubs, but everyone that could base fled to other arenas, amongst them the moderators who should be monitoring the pubs.
What followed was an assload of bitching. -Not really an enviroment for newbies-.
Alot of the older players quit because they got bitched by the new staffers that spawned from the ass of pure_luck, some of the most valuable staffers quit because they either grew too old or they couldn't stand the incompetence.
Pure base as Eph said was an attempt to treat symptoms, they didn't harm as you say, they just didn't help.

[Sufficient]

which is why its so good. In most zones its hard to tell one ship from another. In TW each ship is clearly different to the rest.

weasels and levs are not useless they are the fun ships of the zone

killing 6+ people in a single shot is not possible in any other zone. Its alot of fun.
weasel is entertaining too, want your revenge on that "vet" whos trashtalking you in pub, hunt them with a weasel

I meant it in the worst way possible. TW has little focus. It offers lot of things, but I feel everything is done half-heartedly. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see more focused attention on a few events/arenas/leagues/pubs than a bunch of mediocre events/arenas/leagues/pubs.