Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[Epic li]

I find the leviathan quite ok now, our upgrades are good and also the ship if you build it right, but in the other side, the upgrades are damn expensive, i find it somewhat balanced o.o

[gdugwyler]

Talked with some people on the chat and went ahead with some changes.

Shark weapons buff:

- 6 mines.
- 20 total team mines.
- Single fire weapon cost now 40% of old cost; fire delay increased slightly.
- Multifire delay greatly reduced (to minimum delay -- 10ms); spread adjusted slightly (though it still shoots in triangle formation, much like Terr's burst)
- Bullet speed increased very slightly.


Leviathan:

- Recharge buff: initial recharge increased 50% (it was damn low); this means Jav now has the slowest initial recharge, but this makes sense because it's the only real bomber. Levi is only slightly higher. Max recharge increased accordingly. Upgrade amount not altered, so Jav may eclipse Levi very slightly in recharge after many upgrades. They're pretty much the same, though.

[gdugwyler]

okayy, the recharge issues on the board this time. And yes, there are issues with the recharge, definitely.

Levi recharge from 0 to 1710: 10.7s
Wb recharge from 0 to 1600: 4.9s

What you're seeing is that each ship has a unique design. WB (with Spider following quickly after) enjoys the very highest recharge in the game. Levi, on the other hand, has the very lowest. This is not done necessarily out of any real fairness; it's simply what carried over from conversion of pub settings to Distension upgrades, to maintain the original feel of TW. However, considering that the Levi is now significantly different than it is in pub (glider rather than tank; bombs having EMP but with much lower damage; guns firing faster), a change in recharge is definitely worth considering -- maybe something along the lines of the Jav, which is the next slowest to recharge, but still significantly faster. If anything, considering that it's meant to be mainly a gunner, with the bombs used as firing support, it might actually be wise to have it recharge slightly faster than the Jav. Opinions on this? Would like to hear from both Levis and non-Levis.

Also, for the benefit of those who are still confused about what happened recently with energy and recharge adjustments (DaKo, et al.), here's a graphic display of what was done to EVERY ship for energy and recharge:

What this is showing (roughly) is where ships "start" (no upgrades in either recharge or energy) and "end" (all upgrades for one or the other ... or for ships that have additional slots past 10, upgrades to the 10th position -- the extras considered bonus slots and not worked into the calculation).

Before the change, ships started with much lower energy and recharge. However, their maximum energy and recharge was also much higher. Consequently, each upgrade also gave more energy and recharge than it does at present: to be exact, in almost every case, each energy and recharge upgrade gave double what it does now.

After the change, ships start with much more energy and recharge, but also have a lower maximum energy and recharge. The amount of energy and recharge with which they now start is such that if a ship upgraded half energy or recharge in either system, energy and recharge would be roughly equivalent.

What this means is that no nerf occurred. Some are under the impression that one ship or other was "nerfed" by this change. This is simply a matter of perspective. Why? Well, if you had no energy or recharge upgrades in, say, spider, and then you started playing spider and noticed that you have a lot more energy and recharge than previous, you'd think there was a spider buff. On the other hand, if you were a spider with more than half of total upgrades in energy or recharge before the change, you'd think a spider nerf had occurred. You'd especially think this if you had near max or max in either. But in both cases, you'd be wrong.

What's ironic about the situation is that the first person to bring this up was a rather arrogant Levi player (not referring to Zei's post here), complaining that Levi recharge was nerfed. Recharge wasn't nerfed on the Levi; furthermore, interestingly, Levi was the ship that actually received the greatest benefit from this change. Each upgrade of energy in Levi previously used to give 100 energy. Now it gives 60 (as opposed to the 50 it should if it were standardized). It didn't seem fair to the Levi to be only given 50 per upgrade, as everyone else receives more, so I set it a bit above the norm, effectively increasing the power of the Levi relative to all other ships.

Again, all this doesn't mean Levi recharge shouldn't be changed. (It just wasn't changed relative to all other ships, from a purely mathematical perspective. You'll still find it's slower to recharge with 8 chg upgrades now than it was with 8 before, just like every other ship.) Levi does enjoy one benefit that others don't as far as energy and recharge are concerned, though: there are no rank requirements for any level of either.

[AcidBomber]

Wheres DISTENSIONNN

[Zeimonster]

okayy, the recharge issues on the board this time. And yes, there are issues with the recharge, definitely.

Levi recharge from 0 to 1710: 10.7s
Wb recharge from 0 to 1600: 4.9s

i took the time with my cell phone (warped and started the clock), so i'd say both of them are pretty exact times, max +-0.3s each

even that looks pretty awful to me, but that's not all. My levi's got 11 recharge upgrades out of 12 possible (95% recharge) and wb only 4 upgrades out of 10 (78% recharge). I dont know what else to say, just look into it.. And if it helps, try to play levi in a base with max recharge and 1600+ energy. Shouldnt take long to see my point.

[2kill]

Lanc is more of a combo base defender and dogfighter, so it's not ideal for either. Its bullets cost a lot less as well (though again are slower). Not sure what to do with this. Anyone else have Lanc experiences?

in the end you are right the Lanc is a base defence ship not really meant to hold its own in a straight out dogfight but I find that in base with multi it can pin down almost anyone (even without multi the faster firing rate does give it enough to spread the bullets around)

I feel the lanc is quite boring to play. I played my lvl 27(?) lanc most of yesterday's 2nd session and it was getting OK kills but after the battle dragged on it got really boring. The ship is basically a turret that gets most of it's kills when camping while defending the flagroom.

Lancs do have a hard time killing warbirds especially when the warbird can tank one yellow shot and it's very hard to hit a wb twice (and since multifire recycle is slow you can't use it either). I guess it wasn't that bad in the flagroom though since you could just camp.

I still think the lanc bomb could be tweaked to be a bit more effective to make the ship more interesting. I think only one lanc is using it at the moment and he doesn't seem to be able to do much with it. I forgot which lanc it was (skullspace or 2kill) but it would be nice to hear a comment from him about the bomb.

I think you basicly hit the mark Mjollnir the lanc ends up being a turret mostly but, there is nothing wrong with that inherently as you can see in Metal Gear they have a ship that is just a turret its job is to attach to their form of terr and turret well the terr flys around. I know that Kcid and I were doing very well with that we would rush in take flag clear base before someone finally hit us and we would start again. (and I also enjoy doing that)

The bomb you are right is pretty useless in most circumstances though it can deal out a lot of damage I watched Skullspace bomb on to the flag well the enemy terr and two people who attached to him diedm thus clearing base...though those times don't pop up much. In the end I think that L2 bombs may make up for it (maybe not) ... I think that lancs get L2 bombs right Dug?

Lanc bombs aren't very useful but sometimes come in handy and would get better the more radius that they have.

As the Lanc is now I don't think that it will be a major ship for me in the public release especicallysince you won't get it till much later. not to say that its a bad ship it does a job and does it well but I only turret in Metal Gear rarely and since you can't skip to it when its needed my lanc well most likely remain low in the release.

I hope that answer some questions if not ask me again while wishing that I was more understandable

[gdugwyler]

One more: Leviathan Multi is now useful, though in a way different than most. It now costs only about 40% of what a normal Levi shot would to fire, but it has a pretty long delay before you're able to fire (anything) again. To couple with this change, the firing delay for the normal shot has been reduced a bit. The angle of Levi multi stayed about the same. For most purposes you can just consider it a normal shot, but much cheaper and with a longer delay.

Those that think about it a little will find several tactical options for the new multi: fire it at full energy and you're still able to withstand multiple L1 bullets (possibly an L2) while you scurry out of the way to safety, or empty out a few of the now- faster-firing regular shot, switch to multi when energy is low, and fire that last shot that ordinarily would cost too much. Meanwhile you're recharging and wouldn't be able to fire anyhow, so the delay isn't a problem.

Also: in before legions of 16 year old boys all whine in unison, "useless!"

[gdugwyler]

Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

Leviathan is now a support ship. This means it is worked into the (slightly higher) support bonus at the end of the round, and receives some profit sharing, though not as much as shark and terr.

Weasel is still not a support ship, but it receives a little bit of profit sharing. This is partly to keep in line with the potential idea of following an unlock course for assault/support, in which weasel is the special unlock.

Abilities added:

- Vengeful Bastard (had to put "B*stard" in game as otherwise those with obscene on won't see it... yes, this day and age bastard is still considered an obscenity): chance that when you kill the player with this ability, something bad will happen to you ... generally this means engine shutdown for a short time, but you could also have your energy reduced to 0, or something far worse. Weasels and Lancs, the special unlocks, both receive this ability; however, Lanc upgrades it later, at a somewhat greater cost, and with fewer levels.

- Escape Pod: chance that when you die, you will respawn where you died rather than in the rearm area. Both Terr and WB will receive this ability, though like Vengeful Bastard above, the Terr version is (much) cheaper, has more levels, and requires lower ranks. So as not to increase WB strength too much, the cost is high: because of this taking the ability or not on that ship will be a difficult choice.

- Priority Rearmament: made free/automatic for all Terrs. Added for WB, Jav and Spider at high ranks and costs. These ships all had open ability slots, and I think at this point they're pretty much finished, but just needed something to round them out as far as options go. PR is a fairly generic, benign ability anyhow ... but has a nice bonus of prizing full charge at the end of the rearm, which anyone can use.

[gdugwyler]

If you're referring to Mj's odd double bounty, that's a bug I've seen a lot and have been stumped as to when it comes up. Fortunately it doesn't come up much, but unfortunately that means it's next to impossible to see why.

As for your bounty, as I was trying to explain, the ability in question won't add to your bounty. If you've played a Terr or Spider, this is much like the regen abilities, or the spider's super -- you upgrade it, and it enables the ability on your ship, but doesn't increase bounty like a prize-based upgrade.

[Vergilius]

Edit: ur right. no idea how that filter ever got on, mustve been on accident. but still, the bounty issue?

[gdugwyler]

I just realized: you have obscene on. The name of the upgrade is "Vengeful Bastard". (Will have to change that, apparently.)

[Vergilius]

Noticed a weird thing yesterday - i saw mjoll in his 35(or sth) weasel flying around with a bty of 54, all others saw the normal bty of 27. After i died and i saw him again i saw the 27 too. i was NOT drunk or high or whatsoever, and i am very sure about it, i talked to mjoll about it at the moment. Weird little bug in the system?

Sorry, no screenshot, i was too surprised -_-

EDIT: weird things today:


By vergilius at 2008-01-09
in the pic you see that #7 is missing, i took it after i did an upgrade of #7. the upg points were taken away, and you see UPGRADES: 25. yet the bounty is still 24. i do get the !upginfo 7 tho. Weird thing. I dont know if it actually works, just sth is wrong

[Mjollnir]

...
skull: Warbird vs Lanc has always been a bad match. The Lanc can fire more but the WB can outrun it, dance around it, and snipe it with faster bullets. I'm not sure if this is a problem: in an open dogfight a WB should usually win by sniping. Lanc is more of a combo base defender and dogfighter, so it's not ideal for either. Its bullets cost a lot less as well (though again are slower). Not sure what to do with this. Anyone else have Lanc experiences?

I feel the lanc is quite boring to play. I played my lvl 27(?) lanc most of yesterday's 2nd session and it was getting OK kills but after the battle dragged on it got really boring. The ship is basically a turret that gets most of it's kills when camping while defending the flagroom.

Lancs do have a hard time killing warbirds especially when the warbird can tank one yellow shot and it's very hard to hit a wb twice (and since multifire recycle is slow you can't use it either). I guess it wasn't that bad in the flagroom though since you could just camp.

I still think the lanc bomb could be tweaked to be a bit more effective to make the ship more interesting. I think only one lanc is using it at the moment and he doesn't seem to be able to do much with it. I forgot which lanc it was (skullspace or 2kill) but it would be nice to hear a comment from him about the bomb.

[gdugwyler]

Foreign: I like the automatic energy increase each rank. Unfortunately it'd be a little tough to implement (or just require a lot more prizes/prize levels for energy). HyperSpace, running ASSS, would stand a better shot of this. The intro bit is also a good idea... Maybe with LVZ or the like. Again, might want to do some kind of tutorial arena. There are unfortunately some limitations to how well we can do that considering we're doing it on an ancient game.

Was able to talk to Mj personally about most of those, some of which have been resolved (and some may be due to lag as was mentioned). For example, some ships are going to be able to tank L2. L2 energy was increased back a bit (after being seriously reduced for this update) so that it should do about 1500 -- killing any stock ship. Weasel firing costs were reduced a bit and I think it's working out well. I had a good time weaselling yesterday, and even at a low level was able to do decently. This is what I'm hoping for with the ship, being that it'll be a special unlock.

skull: Warbird vs Lanc has always been a bad match. The Lanc can fire more but the WB can outrun it, dance around it, and snipe it with faster bullets. I'm not sure if this is a problem: in an open dogfight a WB should usually win by sniping. Lanc is more of a combo base defender and dogfighter, so it's not ideal for either. Its bullets cost a lot less as well (though again are slower). Not sure what to do with this. Anyone else have Lanc experiences?

[skullspace]

wb is overpower

I am hight level in lanc and still I am bad in fight : \