Town Hall Game Discussion

[paradise!]

lol at this

whats wrong with what squallff8 said, your so desperate to follow the crowd even though i bet you've never said a word to him, its comical.

[PH]

i can't believe i'm agreeing with paradise.

[renzi]

soupero is right, people grow up and move on with their lives. and squall, you cant really expect people to volunteer to make squads. it takes so much of your time to do =x

[renzi]

i say we force everyone out of the other zones and force them to TW! jk

on a serious note - i think the player limit in pub arenas should be taken off and either the pub map could change weekly, or since theres like 4 different pub arenas, why not have each arena have a different map? and i think in each pub arena there should be a bot that pm's you when you enter that tells you to press F1 for commands for the game and tells people to type ?go tutorial (once the arena is there) so they can learn to play

[renzi]

and one more thing, maybe if ships' speed became faster. not as fast as dsb, but faster so maybe itll seem harder or more intense..idk just a thought

[Snipe!]

i dont think they're going to change the ship settings

[HateTheFake]

well the way i see it, if its dieing its from lack of interesting things to do while online. and the same repeatitive things get boring as hell. public arenas, elim, javs, a scattered wbduel. hosted games are few and far between, and the majority of them are the same old games like, javufc spawnfest, or hunt, or some variation of those, if u wanna keep people interested u need to get more things going, like tourny, let it stay up longer then a few days a week? seems like anything thats good is limited to a short time. get some other ideas.... make wbduel a zone message when it starts like elim, or baseelim, or base.... let the crowd know that stuff is happening, don't know how many times i've logged just to wait around for an hour and NOTHING good happen. u need to get the player community more involved in the game, make it interesting.

^^^This

[DankNuggets]

I see a lot of comments that hit on the one point that I hear consistantly from people I know who've quit this game -- It's gotten boring.

I don't think it's boring, and neither do you or you wouldn't play it, but they do. It's not the graphics or the player base they say, it's just that they got plum bored of playing elim and pub. The reason being neither of these arenas (the most popular) are dynamic. The only thing that changes is the people in them, and for the most part they are the same too.

When I play this game and actually get excited, it's because of two things: 1) Something new -- whether it be a new pub map (like the holiday maps) a new event, or distension
2) A lot of people I like are online

I think the way to keep the game fresh isn't to focus on staples such as elim or twl because they only really cater to people who like to play already and are content with owning noobs in elim or simply playing the same people over and over in twl. If you want to keep vets from leaving, cater to what they like, but if you want to keep all people, cater to all people. That means improving ALL aspects of the game.

I like the idea of having the "extra" pub arenas use a rotating map scheme that incorporates different base and flagroom configurations is definitely on the right track. Most new people don't know about other arenas and will only find out about them by accident if no one forces them to play them. And it really wouldn't be forced b/c they could always go back to pub 0.

Technically i guess i could convince 20-30 ppl to ?Go boki, but i don't think that's likely (i wouldn't have before i was forced to play it as a holiday map).

The eventbot is great (if someone on staff decides they like the same game as you) but it doesn't help people discover new arenas at all. Even people who stumble upon them won't know the arena's true potential unless it's full or being hosted.

I think twd/twl will still only serve the "vets" and that new players will almost exclusively play in pub. A- they don't know other arenas exist, B- they suck at them and don't get support to get better, and C-there appeal relies on winning for the most part, and noobs won't win a lot or any games where as any noob can get kills in pub

As far as basing dieing, it's because there's no room for others to compete on an "equal" plane -- the vet's have been playing teh same map for tooooo long to be beating by "noobs" learning the ropes. Switch up basing with the myriad of basing maps and level the playing field some.

And to sum it all up with an opposite view -- there simply aren't enough people playing TW to support all these cool arenas and leagues, so maybe we should scrap some of the shit no one plays and focus on rebuilding the pubs and maybe a few extra arenas like elim, duel and javs to force each active arena to be packed??

[DankNuggets]

oh and one more thing, sorry to dbl post,

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE bring back the (or another) website that keeps track of public records! The first two years i played this was just me and a few friends trying to make our pub squad reach the top of the charts. Also it gives LTs and other quirks of the game that fall between the cracks more reason to play.

[Maverick]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE bring back the (or another) website that keeps track of public records!

Your voice has been heard, the TW Development team is already working on that. (but please keep asking - keeps me focussed )

[Lemmin]

I've been thinking about this for some time, was going to post this when I retired from the game in a few weeks, but since the topic is open I'll post my thoughts here.

(Executive summary for those unwilling to read a 2000 word essay can be found near the bottom of the page)

First up, you have to try and think like a new player. What is the experience a new player sees when they first come to TW? Is the game rewarding? Is it fun? Obviously the answer is they see pub, and probably what will happen is that they will die 10 times for every one kill they get - so not very fun or rewarding.

The problem is that as the population gets smaller, we are left primarily with veterans - even a lot of the pub players are long-term pubbers. I play pub a lot, and I can spot the new players - they die easily. Many of them will get sick of this and leave immediately, never to return.

What I would suggest is some way of protecting new players, or giving them more of a chance to get kills. Could we work up something with the pubbots so that any player with less than, say, 20 hours of playing time (not AFK/spec time) gets some extra ability - increased turn rate, or faster recharge or something to give them a chance against veterans?

A lot of other online games have protected areas for new players, so they don't become easy meat for veterans - we don't have the population for seperate pub arenas.

Please note that distension is the opposite of this idea. I suspect the only people who are playing it now are those who were there at the start, since they have the fully specced ships. I tried to play it, and found that I was dying all the time and not getting any kills - so I gave up. Distension is NOT the answer to pub problems, despite the praise some people give it. If you reset dist regularly to give new players a chance, the veteran players will get sick of losing all the hard work they put into it.

I also think it might be nice if a whole-zone bot system was to PM suggestions to new players. So after, say, 35 hours of playing time, they get a PM saying "now you've got the skills, why not try your luck in elim?" After 50 hours of playtime, they could get a PM from the bot saying "have you considered joining a squad? squads play team games against each other.. " etc. This idea is also borrowed from other online games, which try and slowly lead you into the game.

Maybe you could even consider some kind of suggestions or "missions" - a player PMs the bot with "!mission" or something, and it could reply with a number of suggestions of things the player isn't on record as having done already - play in elim, play belim, play wbduel, join a squad, request an event etc etc. Once they've done it once, that thing doesn't get suggested again. That way the player will get introduced to everything at their own rate. Obviously requires some pretty advanced bot-work.


The second problem, as I see it, is player attitude. I've seen several comments on this thread saying "you can't do anything about the nasty people on the game." Well, I disagree - in fact, I think you HAVE to do something about the nasty people, otherwise everyone else will leave.

I've been playing this game for nearly 12 years, and I've made the decision to leave soon mainly because, after trying some other online games recently, I've realised that a lot of people who play subspace are utter c*nts. For some reason its become acceptable, maybe even "cool" to swear, pick verbal fights, troll and bully other people.

The "rules" are well known - staff seems fixated by racism and the "n-word" and ban people for even thinking it, but ignore people who just try and be nasty. I've been in pub and watched one or two players (often in spec) systematically bully, harrass and abuse anyone who will respond (often new players who don't know how to ?ignore or ?cheater, and especially anyone who might possibly be female) until they log off. If you bring this to staff attention, the usual response is "well, they aren't being racist".

The solution? Well, for a start, any solution needs to begin at the top. Staff need to lead by example, and be polite, professional and personable at all times. I've often done a ?help call for some simple reason, and while I often get a polite, friendly response, I sometimes get a condescending or downright rude one. Some of this is surely because I've been staff in the past and some new ZH feels the need to show they are better/bigger/uglier than me. However, I've done help calls from aliases, and got similar responses.

I'd also suggest having less tolerance of bullying and harrassment. Maybe staff could try looking for intention rather than content - just because someone isn't saying the "n-word" doesn't mean they aren't being nasty and putting another person off playing ever again. Even people saying "ez" all the time can be intimidating. How about a 24/7 on-duty staff presence in public arenas? There aren't many any more, so someone could just be in there (non-AFK) and keep things pleasant. Staff have the power of *shutup - suggest you use it on anyone being disruptive? No warning, no notification - that way they can carry on talking to themselves, but when noone is responding they'll soon give up.

On a similar note, theres a lot of verbal harrassment and abuse that happens from other zones. I'm sure that at any one time, about half the pop of 17th parrallel is banned TW players spamming chats and individuals using hard-to-?ignore names. Either implement a policy of banning cross-zone spammers/harrassers, or else disable cross-zone chats. I don't actually know anyone who legitimately plays in another zone, so whats the point in letting people use them to annoy? Theres probably lots of arguments for dropping the shared biller and going with a TW-only biller...


The third problem is staff (this is where I make myself unpopular). I briefly mentioned staff attitude towards players above - this is endemic of the problems within staff as a whole. I admit I haven't been staff for nearly a year, so it might have changed, and what I am going to say does not apply to all staff, nor even a majority, however...

I think the current system is flawed. From the point of view of a new member of staff, the upper staff seem very inaccessible (and I think a lot of them cultivate this image). If you try and ask a question, you will often be ignored, or got a brush off or a snappish reply. This is probably part of the reason that ?help calls get answered in an unprofessional manner - ZHs are just behaving to players as some upper staff behave towards ZHs. Noone should be on-duty as staff unless they are happy and ready to do their job. If you are busy, angry, playing in TWD or whatever, you should be on another name and not on staff chat.

Staff quotas should be scrapped, and the staff "onit" league tables on the staff website should be removed (or at least hidden from lower staff). The current system encourages competitiveness between staff (especially lower staff), and you end up with a call-center mentality - quantity over quality. "How many calls can I take in the next hour?" "How many easy games can I host?" "Blah <ZH> has more calls than me, I need to get another 10!" Staff should be looking for quality instead - if the calls aren't being taken, hire more staff - theres certainly no shortage of applications!

Everyone knows about robohelp, and the fact that it should be scaled back. Robohelp is a nice idea, but it either needs massively improving so it gives genuinely usefull help, or retired entirely in favour of humans.

Upper staff? Well, its been a while, so I can't really comment, but I feel theres a certain lack of effort from some. Rudy is great - just the right level of fear and friendliness for a bang op, but the deans of staff and TWD staff seem a bit ineffectual. Bot development seems to happen, and happen well, but maverick seems very busy. When I was last on staff I volunteered to help with bot development, but got a big fat "meh" for my trouble, so dropped it again - theres plenty of talent out there that could be used though. Finally, right at the top we have Pure_luck. Great guy, hes done some fantastic things for the zone, however he has a habit of addressing any problem by forming a committee to assess them, and holding meetings and consultations. These are all classic techniques to stop anything actually getting done! I like the democratic ideal behind it, but a dictatorship is a more efficient method of administration. How many times have we had meetings to discuss the declining zone population? How many of them have resulted in concrete action?

(continued in next post - too long for the forums :P)

[Lemmin]

(continued from previous post - damn 10k character limit )


Those are the main things that I feel need addressing, probably in order of importance. Certainly nicer graphics and more game flexibility would help but I don't see that happening this year. Yes it would be nice to bring news players in through marketting, but its pointless if they will get disheartened and leave within half an hour, or get bullied into going away. There have been some other great comments on this thread so I won't mention them again.

The final thing I can suggest is that anyone interested in improving this game should go and play another online game as a total newbie, and steal their ideas. Theres plenty you don't have to pay for, catering to all tastes. Try one out, and see how these games go about introducing new players to the game, how they are eased into the general population, how the tutorials work, and how the help systems and staff work.

At the end of the day, a game is only fun if you get more rewards for your effort than you do in real life (thats what makes them so addictive). You guys need to make TW more rewarding for new players, so they become addicts and stay! You have to find ways of rewarding players (both new and old) so they carry on wanting to play. Scores on the website would help, publicly announced competitions with rewards (winner gets 5 games of their choice hosted? this sort of thing has been suggested before), fame, fortune...

Executive summary:

1) Make game more freindly to new players: Protect new players from veterans in pub; track new player usage and make suggestions at key points; implement a "mission system" to suggest new things to players to keep them interested; avoid distension-type ideas in pub unless news players are protected from veterans.

2) Try and tackle bad attitude: staff should lead by example (as should any veteran who cares); zero tolerance for bullying and harrassment of any sort (not just racism) - use *shutup if necessary; maintain 24 hour visible and active staff presence in pubs; deal with cross-zone spamming problem with bans, or by shutting down cross-zone messaging entirely

3) Staff reforms: make upper staff more accesible to lower staff; encourage staff not to perform staff duties if they aren't feeling like it; scrap staff quotas and league table to encourage quality rather than quantity; scrap robohelp (or scale back); serious reforms at highest staff levels.

4) Check out other online games, and steal their best ideas!

5) Improve the rewards for playing: pub scores on the website, reward highest scoring players/squads, give out "medals"... whatever.


I think thats me just about done. I still love this game loads, but I'm sick of the people you get on here. Its like all the scum has floated to the top, and we are only left with "ez kids" and spammers and ban evaders. At the end of the week I'm stepping down as captain of Ossify, and doing my best to retire from this game.

I hope TW gets things sorted and turns itself around, and good luck to all who try!

LEM <3
(29 years old)

[Ricko]

Everything that lemmin said needs to be addressed; he has hit the problem right on the head. Simply removing all of the 1 off hosted events which noone even knows about and bringing back websites with all recorded scores on would do tw wonders. As a minor staff I'd like to address that there clearly is some mis-communication going on as this quote will show from a player i recently helped : b&Ac.> well i appreciate the help, it's good to see some sort of staffer helps people out these days. If we can implement most of the ideas put forward in this thread, then the game is saved.

[Peace_Maker]

I think all would agree competing with newer games building the community is going to be next to impossible. There are only two ways I see to bring new players into the game. The first is networking, getting people you know to try the game. The second way is advertising. Try putting an ad in a gaming magazine for 2 or 3 months and see what happens. After getting a player to try the game keeping them is the hard part. GL on that part.
Peace

[Doc Flabby]

At the end of the week I'm stepping down as captain of Ossify, and doing my best to retire from this game.

I hope TW gets things sorted and turns itself around, and good luck to all who try!

LEM <3
(29 years old)

Don't leave lem