Settings change

[Concurrent]

The LT

The LT, imho, is a terrible thing to TW, and I doubt when these settings were concieved the LT as its been used was thought of.

Here's a list of why you can hate the LT:

• They use private freq (To those who think otherwise by quoting the 'request' for an LT to team chat, the terr and levi often goto a private freq following this)
• Run, bomb, then warp when someone gets close. Rinse and repeat. It gets old chasing watching them warp away.
• Leeches: As others have said, they do nothing but steal kills the entire time, moreso if they are on a private freq.
• 'Greening': whoever came up with idea needs to be shot. For those who don't quite know what I speak of, it is the practice of switching teams and sitting in front of a levi(who is on a pub freq) to let it kill you so it can green, usually done at a safe. This is usually intensified by switching to a priv freq once the levi is 'greened'. This should probaby be against the rules as it is, but noone seems to care. The levi should be touching greens and shooting people to get that 20 bounty, not having the terrier suicide for it. Note to people that do this: I can kill that levi of yours by switching teams as well.

It would do all of you good to read that list, and I want to hear if anyone has a decent counterpoint to my last item, as it disgusts me greatly.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

my idea of changing the lev bombs into 500-damage giant EMP bombs would fix all of those.

1) there's no point to using it on a privfreq since all you're doing is stunning peoples' energy for the most part.

2) any LT that would form would actually be doing their team a favor. there would be way less tks while doing so, also.

3) the levs wouldn't kill nearly as often. only the people with low energy would die (spiders who are fighting, a jav who just shot his bomb, etc). in fact, it would take 3 levs firing at the same spot at the same time to kill anything at full strength.

4) there would be no need for greening. it's not a ship of mass destruction any more. it would be an actual useful basing ship.

[za gophar]

1. if a ship with settings similar to those of dsb were to be introduced to the zone, many people would play it. long lasting rapid fire with one shot kill. other players would call it lame and refuse to play it. just cause many people enjoy playing it and easily killing others does that mean that it should be kept to keep these people happy? no, screw them newbs.

2. i still hate being emped, and i think a lot of other players would too. if this idea were tested we could see how it felt but i think any major changes like this should require a vast majority of support from all types of players, not just the ones who read the forums and hang out in ?go base most of the time.

[Smart Bomber]

The weasel is too strong now, because it's smaller and harder to hit, and can pass thru holes. At least make it slower and less manuverable, and/or take repels away.

Levis are weaker now. It's easier for levis to kill ships except the weasel, but it's a lot easier for levis to get killed. Levis should have at least 1 repel because they can't dodge stray bullets like other ships.

I always thought levis should have some kind of defense against weasels, maybe an x-radar that drains energy really fast. If you look at the game, all ships have some defense against other ships, except levis have no defense against weasels.

[za gophar]

i tried to edit my post so as not to make another one but it wouldnt let me.. i wanted to add

ax the cloaker, but not the weasel.

to the end.

[Demolish]

MEH, the settings of all the ships were fine the way they were. I dunno why the sudden change... LTs? pubs getting less popular?

Whatever the reason, I think the original settings were fine. If you guys were aiming to decrease the effectiveness of the LTs, I would just take 1 or 2 reps away from the levi.. making a max of 2 or 3 reps.

The Weasel is just fcked now, its so ... tiny, and doesn't fit. 1 tile is deff not good.

ANYWAY, original settings were good and if you were just trying to spice things up in pubs, guess it worked.

[JimboJimmy]

Ok veranthi i'm going to counter every point you made and clarfiy the points i was trying to make that I obviously didnt get across...



1. By demoralizing I did not mean running them out of a public arena....I meant causing them to hunt me so that I have the opening I need to occupy the flag room. Then, basing actually INCREASES because of the frenzy the other basers feel to reoccupy the flag room taken by 1 lev and 1 terrier.

2. Levterr hunting requires minimum 2 people... Antiwarp has a big enough radius that a spider in the base can effectively stay safe and counter the terrier's warping ability while 1 wb or 1 terrier hunts the lt. Once the lt is killed, one wb or 1 terrier is required to hunt the lev in the spawn area and cause it to change ships. That's 2 people....and the fact that you don't know how easy it is to lt hunt shows me that you dont really know what youre talking about.

3. The way I lt requires enormous skill...I dont just bomb the walls as you so crudely think.. I have shots from both INSIDE AND OUTSIDE the base that all are designed to target the flag room or the entryways to cause the most damage possible to defenders. My shots are elegant, and a lev on me definitely has to know what he/she is doing or the lev is useless to me. Most people in tw do not know the shots that I use. Countering those shots requires a wb or terrier with some skill and knowledge of the shots. By reducing my potential (by taking away a lev's repels) you thus reduce the level of skill required to hunt me.

4. As to the last comment which i perceive as a personal attack on my intelligence....of course I did not mean that people "COME BECAUSE OF FAMILIARITY." I meant that people who use the zone CONTINUE TO COME because of the familiar feel of the zone and map. That's how a zone becomes popular...because a MAP WORKS AND THE SETTINGS WORK. Tampering with the settings risks turning off the loyal fans of the zone. I just assumed that people would understand my point and not be jerks about it...but obviously I was mistaken.

5. And finally...here is something to think about...why do you think that so many people are drawn to the trench wars zone as opposed to other zones? Trench Wars has the number 1 participation on a daily basis of any other zones. So, why could that be? I think it is precisely BECAUSE of the conflict that people have with the disorderly, intense, and often randomly destructive nature of trench wars public arenas that they enjoy it so much. People LIKE to hunt those "evil lt's" and stop them from attacking the base. They LIKE to yell at the "lamers" and "newbies" that kill them and then kill them back. People enjoy a zone that is simple yet gives them the opportunity to wreak havoc on someone else in a little space ship. In short, humans have never been content with tranquility...we much prefer chaos.

[WiseCherub]

I agree with Smart Bomber, Levys should have XRADAR...maybe drains a lot (like Jav), to offset these crazy weasel settings. Also Levs should have 1 or 2 repels.

Why? Because now that there is more X'es about, levys will most definately need a terrier escort. But if a Levy has any form of XRADAR, this will free up terriers to do more courier and basing defence.

Granting X'es a dominate edge might have a negative influence, it just might turn many players away. Cause when you have a fun dogfight with a similiar ship and a bloody X comes out of no where....I always read in sessions, "Lame CLOAKERS...heh.."

Also, more X'es around will make people into paranoid schizos..heh...

Why are other ships neglected in these recent changes? Can't there atleast be one positive changes for WB, Spider, and Lancasters? I like these ships, because their your standard fighters. Maybe allow these ships to buy some extra device.

Sometimes I periodical hunt Levys, and 2 rockets don't totally help out Levs. I just have to pretend to fire, and let them exhaust their 2 rockets... viola...dead. Keep in mind I hardly ever play Levy, I'm usually one who hunts them.

LT combo, I have always hated them, and when I get killed by one puts me in a bad(evil) mood. If they will LT, then I'll get even another way....like hunting every lev I see, and cleaning the map of greens.

As in SS as a whole, okay there is all these config changes, but what about changes in SS itself? Anyone ever play Xpilot? I wish there was Computer controlled players on some maps, have heat seeker missiles or smart missiles, have Electronic Countermeasures, have shields, have tractor beams....make the game more realistic..... have fueling depots.

**Or have a way to Dynamically change the map as you play, to leave your mark in the game. Mindless gaming sucks, I like an ongoing game world. So when you come back the next day, there is an incentive. I have noticed that this game is more of a sport than actual military campaigning. I wish there was maps where there is an ongoing galactic military campaign, where you have factions against each other for territory dominance (in a grand) scale. Maybe have multi-arena maps, where you can quickly go into....like in PUB arenas, they are all the same!!!

Yes, after analysing this game, almost every zone is sport-like? Sport like arenas is fun sometimes, but I like military campaigning where strategy comes into play.

These mini arena maps are too simplistic, I like variety.

It would be interesting if you could change walls, have barricades, have automated base defence (gun turrets)...etc...
maybe even have a base XRADAR device on map?
The whole idea is to have your little section within the map that you can fight for. Maybe have multi-squad alliances?

Okay I'm just brainstorming....heh

So far the only incentive I have in this game, is to improve my stats... more points, but have good Ratings (win:loss)...etc... I fear I may grow bored..... and also I like basing with the right people who really play.

Honestly, few things that turn me away from certain arenas...if you just have LTs flying around, or almost everyone is dueling and not basing.

I play PUBs mainly for basing, dueling is fun while you base. Pure dueling gets boring after awhile.

I dont think PUB is lame, I think it is an easy going evironment, and there is always lots of people playing (diverse...good & bad).

Playing in a gaming world where there is tons and tons of people is another incentive.... its the players that make the gameplay fun.

ps: I'm not making any demands, just brainstorming ideas and please dont condemn. Yes, familiar settings are good, but stagnation leads to death & boredom.

[Gabraham]

stupid, stupid, STUPID!

quit f'n up trench, "upper staff"

[Verthanthi]

Originally posted by JimboJimmy
1. By demoralizing I did not mean running them out of a public arena....I meant causing them to hunt me so that I have the opening I need to occupy the flag room. Then, basing actually INCREASES because of the frenzy the other basers feel to reoccupy the flag room taken by 1 lev and 1 terrier.

I've never seen that happen. People tend to just leave.

Originally posted by JimboJimmy
Levterr hunting requires minimum 2 people... Antiwarp has a big enough radius that a spider in the base can effectively stay safe and counter the terrier's warping ability while 1 wb or 1 terrier hunts the lt. Once the lt is killed, one wb or 1 terrier is required to hunt the lev in the spawn area and cause it to change ships. That's 2 people...

Any terrier worth their salt can escape from ONE terrier or warbird. Especially if the lev has reps. Terrier bullets do just shy of dick, and bursts are easy enough to repel in the open air. Wbs have pretty much one shot.

Originally posted by JimboJimmy [B]
3. The way I lt requires enormous skill...I dont just bomb the walls as you so crudely think.. I have shots from both INSIDE AND OUTSIDE the base that all are designed to target the flag room or the entryways to cause the most damage possible to defenders. My shots are elegant, and a lev on me definitely has to know what he/she is doing or the lev is useless to me. Most people in tw do not know the shots that I use. Countering those shots requires a wb or terrier with some skill and knowledge of the shots. By reducing my potential (by taking away a lev's repels) you thus reduce the level of skill required to hunt me.[B]

Except you're ignoring the fact that you CAN just sit outside and bomb and still be VERY effective at wiping out flagrooms. That's why the levi needs to be rebalanced. Also, if the levi can't rep, I guess you'll have to dodge. Is that not a skill?

Originally posted by JimboJimmy [B]
4. As to the last comment which i perceive as a personal attack on my intelligence....of course I did not mean that people "COME BECAUSE OF FAMILIARITY." I meant that people who use the zone CONTINUE TO COME because of the familiar feel of the zone and map. That's how a zone becomes popular...because a MAP WORKS AND THE SETTINGS WORK. Tampering with the settings risks turning off the loyal fans of the zone. I just assumed that people would understand my point and not be jerks about it...but obviously I was mistaken.[B]

No, you're right. There is the risk of pissing of some patrons. But as I said, a large part of TW's population wants change. So far, we've found we don't like the changes that have been thought of, but that doesn't mean change shouldn't happen. If you don't beleive my assertion of dissatissfaction, look into ANY of the anti-LT threads.

Originally posted by JimboJimmy
<stuff about TW being chaotic and how people love that>

You're right, in part. People do enjoy intense games. Intense is 16 people battling in flagroom. Intense is not a random bomb coming in from off radar and wiping out half flagroom. That's boring. Also, TW is a good deal less chaotic than, say, EG. And I'll agree that people like screaming at LTs. I'll admit I like seeing LTs die. But not as much as I like basing, and not as much as I like not seeing LTs. Given a choice between my rose-tinted memories of pubbing or hunting an LT? Give me the good pubs.

[za gophar]

So, why could that be? I think it is precisely BECAUSE of the conflict that people have with the disorderly, intense, and often randomly destructive nature of trench wars public arenas that they enjoy it so much.

that would be...
...
gasp...
... incorrect.

[WiseCherub]

For some who think pubs are lame or for newbies... whatever...

One thing I like about PUBs, is there is less REDTAPE.... like
in other arenas you have to wait to get in, or be on some l33t squad....

last Saturday in the morning there was some problem with generating new pub arenas...so some arenas had like
47 players..heh.. Now that was fun, the more people the better.

Of course if there is more and more people, then the map would have to be slightly bigger.

In another thread Wark posted a good idea in regards to democracy of recent setting changes.

Have pub arenas 1-15 old settings and 16-30...new settings..something like that.

By the activity in such arenas, will indicate the popularity of the recent changes.

I believe that the staff who maintain these pubs; primary aim is to make the game enjoyable for all. Now if the staff, are only making the changes to suit themselves or friends; so they can feel high and mighty, then your arenas will suffer with many players going elsewhere for more balanced fun. I'm not saying the staff are like this, since I don't know them; but there is people like that I have seen in the past.

[JimboJimmy]

1. I have lted quite often, and in my experience every time I take over the base on a private frequency the action in the base increases because people don't want to be beaten by a "newbie lt". I have never seen a mass exodus from an arena due to a lt taking over the flag room. But I would be interested to hear other people's experiences with a LT taking the base.....

2. Using a terrier to hunt a LT involves determining the most used stationary spots of the lt and setting a portal to burst the lt unexpectedly. Combine this with antiwarp....which should be used as a surprise tactic...and this makes the terrier very effective at countering LT's. And as for wb's, if a LT is attacked by a wb its first inclination is to warp out....but with antiwarp on this is not possible and the LT's generally die to a good wb shot.

3. I also disagree with your assertion that LT's are very effective when they sit on the roof and fire bombs at the flag room. A wb who knows the angles out of the base that the LT uses can easily counter those shots and possibly kill the lt. As for those LT's that do not use those angles....a good jav bomb can cause the LT to warp away almost every time.

As for terrier dodging, this is all a part of the overall package of the lt. Taking away a leviathon's repels reduces the OVERALL effectiveness of a lt and thus requires less skill to defeat one.

4. As for your last comment I can't argue that some people do not like levterrs, but I for one do, and I'm sure there are many pro-LT people out there who do not wish to lose a fun way of playing trench wars public arenas. However, these people generally do not comment about how much they love lting on the forums, so their opinions are not taken into account. I'm just speaking out for those people and making their opinions known.

[Depili]

Back in my early TW days I also used to LT, but I grew bored of to quite fast, it was just way too easy, just go to a certain predefined spot, aim at certain angle, and sit on the bomb key and hope that you kill more enemie than teammates. There is no skill involved in it.

I personaly think that the new lev settings are a step in the right direction, as levs tend to ruin everyone elses game, as nothing is more annoying than a lt comming and bombing the heck out of everyone after they have taken the fr after a strong strugle.

And about your comments about private freq lt's increasing the basing tendency, then you should open your eyes, 90% of the time when a lt/other private freq takes the fr, all basing tends to die on 10minutes, as the public freqs tire to baging their heads against the concreate wall.

And when a pubic team gets a lev into the fr to defend the flag, all basing tends to die away also, as most pub teams lack all teamwork, and people are mainly concerned about their score / win-loss ratios so they don't want to try and enter a fr with a baselev as the lev can easily wipe small unorganized attacks (ooh, I see a blue dot on radar, I fire, I kill it! ooh the skill!)

[JimboJimmy]

Depili come LT with me sometime and I'll show the skill involved in it and how it increases basing action when I LT. I'm usually on around 7-8 pm ET in the U.S. We'll see if you can keep up with me