why cramming rules...

[Mattey]

Heh, you are so behind. The rocket jav shot can be used once per attach, it isn't a reusable option, so doing it over and over and over again just isn't possible. Even with 2 javs you couldn't set up a steady line of rocketing javs hitting the choke point. There would either be too much time spent getting another rocket to hit the same shot, or you would have to revert to the slow approach choke shot which can easily be repped away. Your scenario was misleading and I think you should apologize to the class.

[TopGod]

Do you know how many variations there are to the classic jav shot?

rocket jav shot
rocket jav no-turn shot
thrust jav shot
thrust jav no-turn shot
forward jav shot
forward jav no-turn shot
regular jav shot
regular jav no-turn shot
slow jav shot
slow jav no-turn shot
stationary jav shot
stationary jav no-turn shot

All of these have differenting timing... Besides who said that rocket jav shot is used for spamming bombs? You usually spam bombs with the forward or thrust jav shot... You use rocket jav shot to get 3+ fers when your spiders are down to buy some time... duh...

[Mattey]

And the only one of those that is unreppable is the rocket jav shot. The other ones are easily repped away making the lining defense easily penetrable. Think back 6 months, getting into base was so much simpler. All you had to do was clear 2 spiders and rep a jav bomb. Cramming makes you clear 4 spiders and a jav bomb while racking up a lot more points, and you can always release into lining if worse comes to worst. The positives for cramming far outweigh the negatives.

[TopGod]

You're missing my point. The whole point of spamming jav bombs is to make them burn reps... The point of the unreppable rocket jav shot is to knock our most of their team... Think about it... if they're attacking and you get a jav bomb right into the middle... wtf do you think is going to happen? are they going to keep on pushing into the spiderlines?

I was base javving like 2 years ago... So dont pull that 6-months ago crap on me. I think that most of the javs now dont hold true to "true" base javing...

[za gophar]

the purpose of the jav isnt to burn reps, spiders are much better at that.

[TopGod]

A burned rep is a burned rep. The more reps you make them use up the less time they have to attack. Duh =(

[Mattey]

Originally posted by TopGod
You're missing my point. The whole point of spamming jav bombs is to make them burn reps... The point of the unreppable rocket jav shot is to knock our most of their team... Think about it... if they're attacking and you get a jav bomb right into the middle... wtf do you think is going to happen? are they going to keep on pushing into the spiderlines?

I was base javving like 2 years ago... So dont pull that 6-months ago crap on me. I think that most of the javs now dont hold true to "true" base javing...

As za gophar said, spiders are far better at burning reps than javs are. I could go into a big long post explaining to you why cramming and lining are best when used together, but play however you want, in fact, I encourage squads to remain "true" basers and only line.

[Mattey]

Originally posted by TopGod
A burned rep is a burned rep. The more reps you make them use up the less time they have to attack. Duh =(

We should use mustard gas for insecticide. A dead bug is a dead bug, duh.

[Kim]

Javs are rendered useless if the opponent's shark repels are working simulatenously with the spiders attn focused on the attacking javs.

[Pearl Jam]

Originally posted by TopGod
I think that most of the javs now dont hold true to "true" base javing...

Explanations as to what "true" base javving is?

[Eeks]

Cramming and lining are both gay. The best tactic is to kill.

[Jeansi]

Originally posted by TopGod


The theoretically perfect defensive line is the 4 spider 2 jav 1 shark 1 terr line. 2 properly synchronized javs can pound the jav shot over and over and over making getting up to the choke point a pain for the sharks, who will then have to face 4 spiders. The shark doesnt even have to do anything on defense, maybe just sit at flag and rep...

And this is how it would end:
Attacking team would wait far enough from the entrance not to be hit by the jav until they are all there, amybe having one spider disturbing the spiderline and getting it to use some extra nrg. The attacking team jav would take a quick shot and kill one side of the spiderline with one single shot (no way to stop that if defenders only have one shark) and then the team would storm in. One shark stays under the flag repping and then eat some bullets before dieing (so that the attacknig spiders would force the other side of the spiderline to retreat or possibly even die) and the other shark would follow the terrier in and rep a possible jav bomb coming from the defending jav (unlikely because the jav probably already wasted his bomb and is hiding somewhere recharging at this point). And boom, the flagroom fight has begun no matter what the defending team does with that lineup.

[Zerzera]

Originally posted by TopGod
. I think that most of the javs now dont hold true to "true" base javing...

I second that, but times changed alot in the last year, there is more than a few elite squads and there has never been such intense 'practice' wich leads to new tactics.
First of all I think the most 'new' basers dont even know how to use a line, and the question is if we have to be sad about that.
When holding flagroom do you want to wait and let the enemy all the way in to kill it off? If you can hold a line long enough you get points, but nothing like holding the ent yourself.
In a line, esp when you got a jav, the other team will just back off a bit and you don't get the fast killrate you have when you take them in the ent. There they can't back up unless they move to the side or into the box, wich gives them a huge attack-disadvantage.
And when you fall back in time you can still 'line', but I dont understand why you would sit down to fire at the enemy, unless you lack the aim to shoot at someone.

[Bosshawk]

i agree topgod a properly executed line can be awesome and hard to break: with the right jav

athought a really good, smart (and sigh i have to say it "laggy") are few and far between, and hard to find

IMO, id rather have 5 spiders in a flagroom fight anyday even over a laggy jav

but once the flagroom is secured, or help break a cram a jav can be valuable, but a jav making 1 silly mistake can cost a team the whole game

on a footnote:

the problem i have seen with some lining, is that a team that has an extremely laggy terr, or other spiders they walk right thru a line with no problems.... very frustrating for the team lining...

with the cram..... its a lot harder to lag thru it, must be because of the concentration of fire combined with the sharks reps

but i think a balance and a recognition of what strat is needed in certain situations is what really makes a team excel....

when to line
when to cram
when to push

but the bottom line, is that the team has to "buy into" the strat and commit to it as a whole, half and halfs just dont work

[Blood]

bring in the baselevi to TWLB, that'd make some interesting matches alright, and spawn a whole new area of possible strategies