Changes in pub #2

[Shaddowknight]

One other issue that will need to be handled: Many hosts give away pubbux rewards for events. There would need to be a way for them to prize the winner as they would now. And not being able to store them as we do now, it will be impossible for some staffers to give away their own pubbux (as they wont have any or very many without having it given to them by others). Will there be a way for staffers (perhaps not of all levels, smod+ with maybe some mods as well) to award points without giving up their own? If not, I forsee the "MVP GETS 10k" rewards vanish. I know that tends to bring in a decent few more players to events at certain times of day.

[fiS]

One other issue that will need to be handled: Many hosts give away pubbux rewards for events. There would need to be a way for them to prize the winner as they would now. And not being able to store them as we do now, it will be impossible for some staffers to give away their own pubbux (as they wont have any or very many without having it given to them by others). Will there be a way for staffers (perhaps not of all levels, smod+ with maybe some mods as well) to award points without giving up their own? If not, I forsee the "MVP GETS 10k" rewards vanish. I know that tends to bring in a decent few more players to events at certain times of day.

It's possible to prize points with a server command. I think it's sysop only, but I don't think it'd be a problem including that into a bot too. If everything else is kept up, than that can be, too.

[Shaddowknight]

It's possible to prize points with a server command. I think it's sysop only, but I don't think it'd be a problem including that into a bot too. If everything else is kept up, than that can be, too.

im aware of the command, but just making it aware that there would need to be a bot command available to maintain event prizes that are commonplace these days. IT would also be possible for each staffer to have a "bankroll" each month (not rolling over) for event prizes.

[Ephemeral]

If an event requires ‘prizes’ for participation then perhaps it is not worth holding?

Is taking players from existing arenas/games using the seduction of prizes a good thing?
eph

[Shaddowknight]

if it turns an even into a 4 player dm to 5, and makes it a 12 player game, then yes. People need an incentive. why do you play? you have an incentive: fun/entertainment. Playing for a prize is an incentive, same as playing for entertainment, but it brings the competition up a notch sometimes, and that can make stuff more fun.

[Ephemeral]

I don’t see this as having anything to do with incentives; it has to do with the purpose of the TW zone. TW zone has an existing mission statement that espouses teamwork as a primary objective. Objectives for things like dueling, while important, are not the primary purpose of the zone.
Prizing has nothing to do with teamwork and therefore has nothing to do with the primary objective of the zone.
This is not to say that prizing (of some sort) is not an effective tool that might be used. But the thing that makes it currently effective is almost exclusively selfish. Figure out a way to make prizing reward teamwork instead of selfishness and it would be of greater importance to the zone.
eph

[Left_Eye]

Eph, when I first came on board, and even to this day, I would agree with you on prizing MVPs/winners for pubbux and/or cash prizes. I was strictly against it because of the same reason, and it felt like bribing people to come to events. However, this has been ingrained in TW too long to become undone. A lot of people show up strictly to win some cash prizes where they wouldn't otherwise. The way I see it is this: if they show up to win a "points" prize, then those points will disappear soon enough if they don't use them, so it doesn't have as long lasting effect than pubbux does. Also, if this brings enjoyment to those that would rather show up to just play the game, then hey, what harm does it do? It's really hard to break people's habits, and this has become one for some people. I'd rather go with the flow at this point then cut that off and ruin other people's enjoyment. It makes the most sense to go this way.

As for the "points" pot for hosts to give, I've really put thought into this and figured it would be best to have a "pot" made per month or week that a SMod+ can create points into so the hosters can just simply do !award name:1000, and it would give that person 1k points. However, we could trim down the award points part to simply 500, or whatever we feel is necessary if we head down that route. At that point, people would not have to give away their points for events.

[Ephemeral]

Left,
The harm is that all of this stuff, private frequency LTs, kill-a-thons, pub bucks, etc erodes the purpose and original intent of TW. Want the proof?

Read this from the TW web site…
“The ultimate goal of Trench Wars is the development and maintenance of an online community that fosters teamwork and camaraderie among its members. By providing an environment that promotes integrity, good sportsmanship and fun, Trench Wars strives to remain as one of the Internet’s best online gaming communities.”

Now go to Steam and read a few pages of the feedback.

See any disconnect? Because we have allowed all these ‘things that are now hard to reverse’ eat away at the integrity and purpose of the Zone we are now nothing like the original intent. Of course these things are hard to undo. But leadership means being able to make the hard decisions. Taking the easy way out has exactly been the reason this stuff got implemented to begin with.

So lets say you prize players with links to Renzi’s naked underage girlfriend. I’m sure it would generate all kinds of participation, probably be the most participation ever for an event. It’s easy. Now the logic would be, ‘well it’s really popular and would be hard (pun intended) to now take it away..’? Doesn’t make it right or justify doing something that damages TW.

Another alternative is do little or nothing and just let TW evolve as it has. I would suggest to change the Mission Statement to reflect this and stop marketing the game as fostering teamwork and camaraderie. Make it about being out for yourself, trash talking, and a community hypocritical vets who say they want the game to continue while simultaneous doing selfish things. IMO it is time to put up or shut up. All of us need to think about if we care if TW survives or not. Are we willing to occasionally lose a game, sit on a bench, bite our tongue, or do some other action that puts the game ahead of ourselves? Are those in power willing to make the hard decisions? The answers to these questions, and time, will determine what happens.
eph

[Shaddowknight]

I dont agree with an overall limited pot, as it benefits people who host more often (people who host less would habe less a chance to use it before its run out). I think theres a decent idea in this, it just needs some fine tuning to make it work for us and now screw over half of the people who want to use it.

[Izor]

ITT meaningful pub changes get derailed into squabbling over prizes in hosted events

[Shaddowknight]

>mfw greentext

[Left_Eye]

Honestly, I still think we are on topic. We are talking about the pros and cons of major alternatives to the pubbux system that could revamp pub and this zone as a whole, which is still including the topic of this thread. Just from the way I see it, at least.

[Izor]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves is what I'm trying to say...we're in agreement to nix a terrible system so do it and worry about hosted events later

[SinOfSaul]

Please don't take my Pubbux! I'm saving them to go on holiday! Maybe a canal boat on the L&L Canal...

[Shaddowknight]

I was playing today in pub a little, with the LowP mid-base spawn on.
If you are going to keep this, you need to alter it for levis. Letting them spawn in mid-base turns the 2v3v1 into which team's levi can not die before getting into flagroom. Personally, during this time disable both levis and sharks. Allowing mining ships to just SPAWN in mid-base and mine flagroom is not fun to play against. I specced this morning cause of that. It's a good idea, but there's a reason levis still have an attach bounty requirement.