Changes in pub #2

[Izor]

I said for a long, long time that people tried changing the map and pub settings rather than the lev to no avail for a long, long time. Then when fis did it was discarded as just another terrible fis change. It has always been just unfair for a baser to deal with that kind of pressure from something that can clear the base with relative ease. I just dont think Kryn will keep these settings around forever based on the feedback he gets. I get his post from a while ago that he wants to change the map around the L3 bomb and LT but I dont personally think that can work based on what I've seen in the past.

And 'everyone' didnt want to play without levis. Pubs existed with LT's and basers. Basers were just the ones to come on here and cry the most. Eventually basers became in charge of changing stuff and you see what we were left with.

[Izor]

The department of redundancy department called and told me I wrote this when I was too tired, but I cant edit posts on this broken ass forum

[Asmodeus]

Didn't say you did...

Oh I have. You didn't listen then, you won't listen now. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the person in charge now plays levi most of the time and loves LTs. Why else would he bring those super-bombs back and give levis 4 reps? That's insane, but it sure as hell makes it easy to LT doesn't it? I've argued my point on levis and weasels before, but you have someone in charge of pub who is giving the illusion of listening while really just pushing his own agenda on everyone. Was a waste of time to offer my suggestions before, and a waste of time now I've realized who is pulling the strings.

Has there been a change in staff leadership lately? Every change in the last month has been terrible.

1. They gave super-powerful bombs back to levs. Now any newb can fire a bomb towards the base and get kills.
2. Then they made the weasel fully cloakable. Now any newb can kill someone without x-radar.
3. Now they've changed the map so the sides of FR are way open. Now any newb can attack FR with some success.

Anyone else notice the pattern? They're just making it easy for newbs. I guess that's why they call it pub. Problem is, once you've played this game more than a few hours, you start getting fed up with dying in ways you can do nothing about!

Games are about improving skill, they're not about dying to a 10 minute old newb who figured out how to cloak or decided to spam an over-powered lev bomb in the general direction of the base. What you've done is say, no matter how good you are, anyone can kill you, no matter what the gulf in skill.

I'm sorry I don't like all your stupid jav events where people hide behind walls and it takes a whole minute before anyone gets a kill. I liked pub, but now I don't see any reason to play it.

How do you kill someone you can't see? How do you dodge a lev bomb hitting anywhere near you? Those deaths are completely unavoidable, so there's no way to beat it by becoming more skillful. The key feature in all successful games is being able to improve. If improvement means playing "who's the biggest pussy" in javduel or elim, then there's nothing for me here.

I'm just glad my old zone is picking up again. Rant OVER.

Where in this post did you make a suggestion? ...?

[Asmodeus]

"If you see racism against whites, or any other color for that matter, please send in a ?cheater call so that it may be dealt with."

That kind of thing went on with mods present, so I doubt they'll do anything when called.

We do occasionally have staff members who go away from their keyboard. We are just as much as players in this game like the rest of you. Sometimes our attention isn't focused on what's being typed out in public while we're having fun playing the game. We aren't able to catch everything even if there is someone present. That's why we need the community to inform us so that someone who isn't AFK, or someone who is focused on playing at the moment, can shift their focus on the call and handle the problem.

"As for TKers, there is a system in place to handle them."

Yeah, a really shitty system.

"Staff simply can't take the word of someone and act on it - a system like that could be abused."

Why is a moderator trustworthy and someone else not? Do you do background checks on anyone who applies for staff? Do you tie them with your lasso of truth?

What's abused is the patience of those who have to put up with repeat TKers.

Ever sent in a ?cheater call about a TKer who is repeatedly TK'ing, and then moments later that player is suddenly stuck in another ship that doesn't have bombs? It's more than likely our system at work. I can't delve much into how it works, but there is a system in place. Lastly, it's imperative that the person given powers to moderate a zone be trustworthy - we take abuse very seriously in this zone. I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of us in staff have been playing this game for a very long time. You tend to learn things about other players who have been playing just as long, if they're consistent in what they say and do. Have they caused trouble in the past? If you met someone in real life that you had not seen before, or did not know and never interacted with, would you just take their word as truth?

In this forum and in-game you have staff claiming they care about what people say and that they will deal with TKers. If staff can't take the word of someone, why should I take the word of staff? Especially when I get TKed by the same asshole again three days later.

These staff members are players just as much as you or anyone else in this zone. Those in staff keep coming back to this game for the very same reasons you do. It seems that you care about this zone otherwise you wouldn't be wasting your time in this thread ; just as you care about this zone so do those in staff.

[Asmodeus]

Could you point to a specific reasoning you put forth, because I have read your last couple and no, I still don't know why. Why was the "original" better now that pubs were consolidated? Having the map change wrt #players is a great innovation. I am not opposed to any and all change, but the forever completely invisible weasel has always been a stupid thing to have, no matter how nostalgic some are for it. As I said 8 years ago:

I don't have hard scientific evidence if that's what you're looking for. More often than not, when you have a formula that works you don't change it. If that weren't the case then TW as we know it would not resemble anything close to what it was a decade+ ago. Warbirds would not be firing a single shot every so often; Javelins would not be firing bombs from the front and shooting bullets from behind. They haven't changed cause the formula works, and it's what we all enjoy playing. The "original" map went unchanged for several years for the very same reasons. I can't speak for why there were structural changes made to the original pub in the first place - the only thing I can think of is that an improvement was thought to have been made. Many see the current map as an improvement over the previous one. Obviously not everyone sees it that way. Some changes aren't well received and never will be. I don't have all of the answers unfortunately.

[Asmodeus]

The department of redundancy department called and told me I wrote this when I was too tired, but I cant edit posts on this broken ass forum

I don't know why there are problems with this forum. If you change the skin/style to "Default Mobile Style" then everything works as it should.

[fiS]

I feel like I owe you all something. I've just recently sort of "chickened out" of the job because I broke down on it. It's a pretty tough job, because as you all might (or might not) realize while reading this topic: you can't please everyone and finding compromises is almost impossible. So while you're trying to please the majority, a lot of voices will speak up and tell you that's crap.

Honestly, I just couldn't handle all that and in the end the game turned into cancer for me. I would like to say that you all hold on a second and think about what you're achieving by just yelling around in this topic. Try to be more constructive and I'm sure Krynetix will value your opinions more - he will read and most likely understand them anyway no matter if "yelling" or being constructive, but you'll get your point across better and at the end of the day everyone will be more happy.

KrynetiX is doing a pretty good job, considering he just took over. The changes with the Leviathans were needed (despite even the majority agreeing on it). Even though like 2 months ago I've been getting a lot of feedback in both directions (positive and negative) on the L2 bomb levi, it's clear that this step has killed LTing entirely and LTing is a part of the game. As you said earlier Kryn, some LTers seem to have left the game - give them some time and I'm certain that they'll return.

The map turned out pretty good, too, I personally like it a lot. The round edges are gone, the attic in the FR is gone, the hardly visible (but pretty good looking) asteroids are gone, it has gotten the typical "Teddy ears" back to hide in - and it's more like we all know the base, keeping the newish system of counting the people playing and in/decreasing it's size. The entrances to the FR have been decreased to "only" 3 in the Medium map, and the only concern I have with that, is that the left and right tubes into FR are a little short and you can get into FR too quickly. Should try to find a way to modify this a little. Also, with the big bomb Levis back, you might want to take a look at the left roof hole. Allows a really wide angle to be shot in - but with roofturret back, that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

What I can't understand and leaves me baffling is the weasel. But I've seen that you've been wondering in this topic why in the first place I got rid of the small weasel. So here's the answer: it had too much privileges all combined into one, making it fun to play, yes, but extremely overpowered. The solutions that I put in place weren't optimal, but allowing it infinite invisibility while taking away other ship's x radar isn't a permanent solution that you should be aiming for as well, as it's extremely lame. What I had as a backup plan to try out was a weakened and less privileged version of the small weasel instead of the fat one - so maybe you find your time to try out something there if you see a need for it.

That's it from me, peace out.

[Shaddowknight]

Yes fiS, I had talked to Kryn about both the map issues and the weasel, and he has plans to change them both to fix these problems. We're already on the same page about it :nice:.

[Izor]

The 1 pixel weasel was fine for years. 8 years to be exact. It certainly had its place in this game as a unique ship that you could use for a variety of things. It was even used as a mediocre dueling ship because of its boost bullets.

[bkgmjo]

So, I've been watching and testing the current map and settings and found a few weak spots.
I'll list those I have ideas for as I guess random complaining won't help anyone.

- Levs who cannot buy outside of a safe while everyone else can buy totally unfair superweapons and antiwarp anywhere can only survive on a LT for long, why would they BaseLev or SoloLev that way?
Suggestion: Restrict buy to safe only for LT, not Lev.

- Lev with 4 reps is strong on LT but those reps will be gone soon in base and are almost worthless in spawn (repeated fire on them/50%+ is lagrep anyways since spawners tend to show their skill by firing from 5px distance) which again promotes LTing outside instead of Solo-/BaseLev.
Suggestion: -2 reps +1 rocket so they can reach base faster and are less powerful on LT. (That is if buy for Lev stays restricted to safe while it does not for everyone else)

- A few anti-LT fixes of the old map (like the blocks in front of holes on roof) did not get ported to the current map.
Suggestion: krynetix already said he will fix some but I think we need some thorough testing here to prevent basekillers from outside or safe spots in tubes. This is especially problematic on small base.

- Weasels with half wb speed and total invisibility are way too overpowered and especially in weaker defense areas like low pop base or spawn invite to extreme laming of defenseless targets.
Suggestion 1: reduce speed to a little over Lev plus rocket and give it back its original basing support role with surprise repelling so team can rush in. Would make even more sense now with multiple entrances. Also give Terrs a chance to warn before they have to run.
Suggestion 2: take away cloak and increase bullet speed
Suggestion 3: take away stealth and keep the rest

- Roofturret on speed is an instant kill buy which is plain unfair no matter who it is against.
Suggestion: buying 1-2 killable defense spiders in midbase or "cloaked mines" on roof in the form of weasels in the LT spots which will auto fire when someone tries to sit there or mines a bot places there and all with a countdown time so players can react in time and not be shot instantly would be more fun. Also buying the roofholes closed for some time might be an alternative.

- Epidemic is ...
Suggestion: remove or ... replace with an emp minefield in midbase laid by the bot (L2 bombs are still unused)

- Flagstrike also does not need words.
Suggestion: remove

- !buy super is only useful for a few ships and two of them generally cause mass-teamkill when using it.
Suggestion: remove or replace with something which adds super to wb/terr/lanc/weasel, bouncing bullets for jav/spid/lev, 1 rep/s + shield for shark/lev. stuff like this would give an equal advantage from the buy.

- buying superweapons promotes exactly nothing and things like "warp team to base" kills more of the own team and annoys them. I have seen players freqhop and warp the team just to break their attack then hop back.
Suggestion: remove superweapons or limit them extremely like only baseterr can buy basewarping while being inside fr, roofturret can only be placed when you are on roof and it will be placed at your current location (maybe specific ship like shark, team fortress mechanic style. Oh wait, those could also place a toy recharge beacon (hint)), epidemic has an own buy spot somewhere like a chemical weapons factory on bottom safe that is so secret that nobody can find it during peace nobel price invasions. Stuff like that to remove the spamming of these buys. Don't be scared to take a look at HyperSpace for how to do good buying.

- The spawn in base on low pop makes it easy for laming tactics like mining/cloaking/rocketlagbomb/heavy bombing.
Suggestion: change those ships spawn point, like lower base ears or tube. Where still in proximity to base but not instantly there. Alternatively remove the laming toys on low pop like rockets for javs and stealth for weasel. Should be hard to remove mines from shark though.

- !switch can be abused to make extra cash when hopping to the stronger freq before round end (which is possible but i guess I wont say how now)
Suggestion: add to the planned reward balancing, only give extra cash for it depending on how long the player has been on freq in current round.

- Many players complain about cloaks
Suggestion: add a rather cheap !buy ping like a sonar that will uncloak weasels of the enemy freq for a brief time around the buyer (remove+add cloak). Could also add a killable ping bot at buyers location.

- Sharks are still pretty worthless after they used up their reps and mines
Suggestion: add them to the team greening so they can get new reps

- Antiwarp just annoys players and can be established permanently.
Suggestion: limit to buy in safe and directly make it possible to buy an easily killable antispider bot at your current location for a high(!) price.

- Buying a baseterr seems nice and isn't much of an advantage since immobile, but why does it take 20(i think?) shots of whatever weapon instead of having a fixed number of HP?
Suggestion: (botcoder only)sum up damage from packets.

- The rate of ports in greens seems a little low.
Suggestion: rework greens to promote more basing, especially baseterrs suffer from barely having a port. Also repels are way too rare and since ships start with multi by default now, why so many multi greens?

- Teamkilling is supposed to be punished which is not always true but anyways, what about not teamkilling?
Suggestion: end of round reward for lowest teamkill/kill ratio or total tks for bomber types that have been in base during the round (maybe a shrap increase/repel refill for 0 tks would also encourage less tking)

- No way to practice.
Suggestion: place private arenas for all 3 types of base. (Rumor has it some low pop time players have never seen large base)

- Staffs are the root of all evil.
Suggestion: Simple as it is, this game wouldn't exist without staff. Still not open to public staffer profiles that display the immense work some people put into this game for free and rather listen to insults all the time? Where is the PR guy hiding if there is any?

[jim the chin]

Where in this post did you make a suggestion? ...?

So you cherry pick a post without a suggestion in it to make your point? Read the next one, or read my posts from before.

Honestly, you really demonstrate the idiocy of your argument. You're all about discrediting the person, not the idea. I also noticed you didn't reply to any of my posts in which I did make suggestions either. So, case in point really.

[Shaddowknight]

- Staffs are the root of all evil.
Suggestion: Simple as it is, this game wouldn't exist without staff. Still not open to public staffer profiles that display the immense work some people put into this game for free and rather listen to insults all the time? Where is the PR guy hiding if there is any?

I'm the closest we got to a PR guy, and I do try to keep players updated about the important changes. For all the little dev things, you can check out things on www.twcore.org's timeline. I really don't have the time to be all up in everyone's business all the time every day to know everything that's going on. I really don't want to do that either, cause I wouldn't like doing that, and people wouldn't like me being all over their business like that either. I do ask about things that I know are in progess at times though, I just try not to be too much of a pain in the ass about it.

[angry.chair]

yes. if u keep responding to every minor tweak, ull be changing it forever. u cannot please everyone.

tiny weasel was fine. i dont see what people were complaining about. it made for fun basing, with a good defense against roof. it wasn't op. not being about to stealth made it balanced. it should be tiny and it should be rocketless, and without a repel. with enough hp to last a lanc bullet.

lev sucks without pure basing. keep it as an LT ship, not a basing ship. strong lev. levi sucks 1000x more when it was ez get to base and shoot into mid.

get rid of pub money. no buying, just basic settings. keep the ability to duel in pub tho. and please make bigger wb dueling areas. youre human and u like things symmetrical, but u wasting a lot of space that could be utilized.

whatever the settings were previous to big weasel and basing lev were good.

[bkgmjo]

@shadow

Then kick their asses sir ;-)

Not a PR job to find out what people are doing but to relate it to public. Doubt it's really that hard for devs to mail you changes weekly or fixes at once or for deans to mail you new/hired/VIPed or whatever staff members. Also a general X of Y calls answered(while being online) or newbies helped ratio for staffers is easy to get out of a bot and it might become visible that not everyone there does the same job. Especially when you list each staffers main tasks. Maybe also just the best 5 or something since it would look bad for guys to be on bottom of the list while their job actually is to code a bot rather than answer calls.

You are constantly losing quality staff members in all areas due to just permanent insults and complaints while in other games they get legend status sometimes. Also sadly a lot of those who do not care much about things and prefer to brush off complaints and just sit in spots for banning and alias check powers stay. Give the good guys something back and say thanks publically when a dev spends his nights fixing a bot or an smod wastes hours of his free time every day to hunt cheaters or just hosts like crazy.

As of right now a staffer gets absolutely nothing for good work. Neither money nor fame nor thanks, just hating. The only place that is giving a rough idea of work are internal staff quotas which really don't say much. Is this how it should go on?

[Spock!]

yes. if u keep responding to every minor tweak, ull be changing it forever. u cannot please everyone.


lev sucks without pure basing. keep it as an LT ship, not a basing ship. strong lev. levi sucks 1000x more when it was ez get to base and shoot into mid.

Personally, I think the levi needs a complete re-working. With current pub population, we don't have the manpower to deal with them. If some idiotic yahoo's decide to kill the game and LT the whole team has to hunt it's ass down....its annoying as hell.

Maybe just enable them with higher population? <----

Weasel is OP right now...Please change. I quit playing TW because of it.....