TW Council - UPDATED w/ structure

[Summa]

True, I also think with regards to weak your past should be irrelevant to a degree, being banned for things doesn't mean you don't have a valued opinion, and could bring something constructive to the table. Since its players voting, and since its unlikely they will know a players past to a degree (staff wise at least) im hoping the voting will be based on what idea's they are looking to bring through over any so called passed indiscretions. Personally I will vote for anyone who actually appears engaging, driven and actually want to affect change in the zone.

i find this comical, being that you drove a lot of those very people out of staff.

[kthx]

Lets be honest here, the best applicants for the council refuse to signup for the election because after all the work we have done for the zone we have been fucked over by one or more of the staffers who are heading the council. I quit playing because of a bullshit ban I received for pushing to get ooooo axed. Summa, lf, ph etc all have similar stories. If staff really wants this to work it needs to swallow its pride and apologize to the people who truly tried to make the zone better. Maybe demonic shouldn't be on the council even as a sysop or smod. Everyone keeps saying to do this and just signup but nobody is asking for theobvious questions like WHY aren't the people who can actually fix this zone signing up, the problem and answer is obvious. Swallow your pride and do the right thing here and ill signup and probably start playing again, doubt I'm the only one.

[kthx]

You want people are bitter, it shows they actually gave a fuck about the zone and took pride in their work and ideas.

[Demonic]

Lets be honest here, the best applicants for the council refuse to signup for the election because after all the work we have done for the zone we have been fucked over by one or more of the staffers who are heading the council. I quit playing because of a bullshit ban I received for pushing to get ooooo axed. Summa, lf, ph etc all have similar stories. If staff really wants this to work it needs to swallow its pride and apologize to the people who truly tried to make the zone better. Maybe demonic shouldn't be on the council even as a sysop or smod. Everyone keeps saying to do this and just signup but nobody is asking for theobvious questions like WHY aren't the people who can actually fix this zone signing up, the problem and answer is obvious. Swallow your pride and do the right thing here and ill signup and probably start playing again, doubt I'm the only one.

I am not fussed if I am on the council or not to be honest, I am there purely for the fact I can implement the changes agreed on by the council, but as I have already told MM weeks ago, any vote that I would have I am happy for him to carry as 99/100 I agree with his decisions. I am also the most experienced staffer/bang op so from a security aspect I can input on what changes wouldn't be possible, but I don't need a vote to do that.

That said, Humid and me fell out over last TWL when he what I felt screwed over Apok's team (fierce I believe it was?) resulting in half the squad quitting. Once again, surprise surprise I sided with the players and stated a rematch should be the way to go despite twl op's disagreeing. It wasn't liked that I interfered, thus humid wont come back. Considering the farcical that was that TWL im not too bothered either way, if MM wants him I would support it, if not then so be it. I made my feelings on forum thread in the appeal post that I thought RM was right, but clearly I should have dragged it through the mud rather then just going along with twl op's decision in the end as somehow it is now my fault.

As for bullshit ban, want me to show you the bans you put for spamming in pub as mod? or doesn't that count as the ban was on you. One that I again didn't let run its full course btw and duly lifted when the situation had calmed down a bit. But of course yet again, making a show of yourself is the way to go in this zone as it shows you care apparently. I have no interest in dragging things up from the past up, and never really have done but im tired of the same old bullshit.

That said PH was a fantastic staffer and ran TWL really well, and if there was any way to get his involvement I would do anything I could to try to bring him on board. You seem to think you can fix this zone Kthx, yet you have zero experience in actually trying. You have zero knowledge in the main running of staff daily, and how to keep things ticking over as your exposure to staff was limited at best but granted you do talk a good game. Think you can join the council and prove it otherwise stop acting like a know it all and putting everyone else down.

Finally LF, I do disagree with what you said regarding spock being good for the council, I think you do need diversity and people who know area's really well. That said, I think you also can bring a lot to the table if you so chose, so would happily support any application you put in.

[kthx]

Yes lets talk about that ban.

If the ban was for "spamming" shouldn't that have been a silence?
If the ban was for "spamming" wouldn't that have a set ban time instead of "when you calm down"
If the ban was for "spamming" why would you claim other bullshit rules about me causing a disruption to the zone.
I haven't played since then, nor will I, it wasn't about the ban itself it was about the retarded and frankly abusive interpretation of the rules set by the zone. That is why rules that are open for interpretation are bullshit despite how many staffers promise they won't be abused. And now we have this committee which you "don't need to be a part of" but have final say over if you can interpret a change you don't like as being a security threat to the zone somehow.

[Shaddowknight]

Think you can join the council and prove it otherwise stop acting like a know it all and putting everyone else down.

Indeed. Time for people to step up or shut up.

[Demonic]

Yes lets talk about that ban.

If the ban was for "spamming" shouldn't that have been a silence?
If the ban was for "spamming" wouldn't that have a set ban time instead of "when you calm down"
If the ban was for "spamming" why would you claim other bullshit rules about me causing a disruption to the zone.
I haven't played since then, nor will I, it wasn't about the ban itself it was about the retarded and frankly abusive interpretation of the rules set by the zone. That is why rules that are open for interpretation are bullshit despite how many staffers promise they won't be abused. And now we have this committee which you "don't need to be a part of" but have final say over if you can interpret a change you don't like as being a security threat to the zone somehow.

I have final say over? I am fairly sure Qan set 2 sysops need to override not 1, so no one person has the ability to shoot down an idea, but I guess that sounds less glamorous and dramatic. You incited riots in pub intentionally with a view to disrupt pub, as you felt you should have an opinion on whom and who not should be staff, and you think you are the person to make this zone run? just lol. Along time ago, maybe, before you became what rotten core we are left with.

[Crescent Seal]

this should have been implemented years ago when we brought it up. a little too late really because i doubt it will do much good. i can predict situations where some decisions won't allow player consultation. still a step in the right direction I feel. too many sheep on staff so not sure if the 9 to 8 would even work.

list:

kthx - pretty vocal. ex-staff. experienced in making staff realize they are putrid.
jessup - good relations with the newbie/pub population. easy to work with.
rasaq - a newb himself. offers good insight
lf - experienced ex-staff.
ph - experienced ex-staff. one of the best twl ops in history. x
ease - experienced twl veteran. ted mosby.
izor - experienced player. pub insight.
ephemeral - generates ideas. master of essays

staff should approach these people personally.

p.s. qpr u done...ppl like u and me not meant 4 structure. we chaos.

bump

can remove rasaq for spock and replace izor with someone else if needed (like Mythril), but these are the people with substance. if staff manages to get at least 2 of these guys to apply then im sure the rest would follow. lets stop trolling and making this entire thing a giant joke.

[Summa]

Demonic, we haven't gotten along for a long time before that either; for various reasons that I don't need to state here because many would view them as mud slinging.

You want a resume to join the council qan?
humid-
Mod for 5 years
Smod for 2 years
2 TWL Head Ops
4 TWL Ops
Founder of TWDT
Head TWDT Op 3 years
Played since 1999
3 TWL Championships
Forum Mafia GOD

I would happily apply and help the zone once more; hell I would even go back to staff again and help from the inside. Unfortunately topic #1 from me on how to make things better is always going to be get rid of demonic as SYSOP. I doubt this council or anyone for that matter anymore has the authority to do that. So my application is probably one you don't want to take.

[Summa]

Indeed. Time for people to step up or shut up.

I think this is a naive post. It assumes that people haven't been stepping up in the past, and it acts as if now is some obvious and crucial moment in which action and inaction is going to change the trajectory of the zone. I find it offensive and demeaning to a lot of the work that many friends and, in my opinion, better staffers have done for many years. You're also talking to a group of people that care so much that they are willing to type pages upon pages to try to do what they view as helping their zone. So no, it is not time to step up for most of these people. Most of these people have been stepping up for years only to get beaten back repeatedly. If you weren't around to see it, then that's on you. But don't act as if this is simply a group of angry people ranting w/o resume or cause. As I said, such views are naive and show a lack of understanding.

[Ephemeral]

This shouldn’t be about personalities and hurt butts. This should be about making improvements to the zone. One of the highest priorities that I have been driving is to change the staff structure. To the credit of people like Demonic and MM, they are moving in the same direction. We can certainly argue over whether or not it is fast enough or if things will change enough but no one can deny that change is occurring.

When I used to hire/fire engineers I could never understand those who simply banked on shit they had done years before. Sure, kudos are always a considerate thing to hand out, but the real question is ‘what have you done for us lately’ not 'what do you do for us years ago'.

So I agree with Shaddow, step up. This may be the vehicle for changing the ‘good ol boy’ staff system that has previously existed; become part of the solution. The one thing that we can be sure about, if people like Summa, LF and kthx aren’t going to help change this then our chances are diminished. Nothing native about that.
eph

[PH]

two issues are keeping me from applying: a lack of available time, and the remaining obvious easy out for the staff side of the council in terms of collusion. the former is not likely to change in the near future, and the latter won't change at all no matter how many illusory equality carrots are dangled in front of players' faces. it's all well and good that the number of members on each half of the council evened out, but if you think for one moment that two sysops won't collude in order to veto any idea that they disagree with, you are incredibly new and/or naive. the sysops will not relinquish their chokehold on trench wars until all its vital signs are flat.

frankly, i'm a little disappointed in qan for agreeing to be part of this puppet show, regardless of how good he's made it look on paper. ultimately, the sysop puppeteers are going to promise the puppets that they'll have a say in how the show is run while continuing to pull every last string as they see fit.

pass, but best of luck to any players who are suckered into this circus act.

[Bukkake Surprise]

If you want to change things, you have to change all the clowns at the top. It's their fault the game sucks, and nothing will happen while they retain their positions.

Listen to this moron..."you incited riots in pub"...wtf is that? What are people going to do? Loot and vandalize the bot shop? Riots? In a computer game? Oh, no, people are typing in caps! Run!

[Exalt]

bump

can remove rasaq for spock and replace izor with someone else if needed (like Mythril), but these are the people with substance. if staff manages to get at least 2 of these guys to apply then im sure the rest would follow. lets stop trolling and making this entire thing a giant joke.

I already talked to Jessup, and he told me he would apply if the thing looked legit. I did this before your list came out. Izor isn't active, so he won't do it. Ease doesn't care. Myth would be a good choice. Eph already applied. Ph is hard to predict with anything, and Kthx obviously will only do it with certain conditions being met. That's pretty much your list.

Also, if there are only 8 people of substance within this entire zone, you mine as well fold shop. You didn't even name 9 candidates to fill 9 spots. You honestly think rasaq was a good candidate? Seriously?

I think this is a naive post. It assumes that people haven't been stepping up in the past, and it acts as if now is some obvious and crucial moment in which action and inaction is going to change the trajectory of the zone. I find it offensive and demeaning to a lot of the work that many friends and, in my opinion, better staffers have done for many years. You're also talking to a group of people that care so much that they are willing to type pages upon pages to try to do what they view as helping their zone. So no, it is not time to step up for most of these people. Most of these people have been stepping up for years only to get beaten back repeatedly. If you weren't around to see it, then that's on you. But don't act as if this is simply a group of angry people ranting w/o resume or cause. As I said, such views are naive and show a lack of understanding.

C'mon man... I know all of you pretty damn well over the course of many years now, and I agreed with all of you in the past with your struggles with staff, but this is getting kind of ridiculous. All you guys are doing is bitching about one player. Granted, I've been gone a long time, so I wasn't here for whatever fallout happened between all of you and demonic, but I've also never had an issue with demonic during any point in the past. You act like you are the only people that ever cared about this zone whatsoever. You act like you are the only people that still care about the zone.

While I agree that you few were one of the very few staff members in the past that I respected, I don't personally give a shit what you did years ago anymore. We live in a "what can you do for me lately" world, and you are still reminiscing about the past. Right now, you are useless as fuck bitching about how you got axed as staff years ago. Nobody gives a fuck. Shadow is right. Step the fuck up and put your money where your mouth is at this point. If demonic shoots you down again, well that alone is enough evidence to get what you want done, which is obviously to get demonic axed. You have to think outside of your little box sometimes.

[Ephemeral]

If they are people at the ‘top’ are truly power hungry jerks what would be the best scenario from their perspective?

They would want those past ‘people of substance’ to NOT run for the council. You would want them to simply stay away, to be apathetic. So if this is the case then you are playing right into their hands. In my opinion the rotten apple in this barrel has always been the way the staff has been structured. In many ways it was always a ‘sleight of hand’; the carrot being delegating power in the form of some zone command lines. But the true power (big decisions that impact the zone and the hiring/firing of staffer) has always been controlled by a few people at top.

The new council could become the equivalent of an employee buyout by changing this structure. Yes, the way it is configured right now there is still some work to be done to improve it and how it works; but it is a start. IMO every position should be ‘electable’, every person should answer to the decisions they make in the form of being bounced out on their ass if they constantly make the wrong decisions. But this requires that we have a way to empirically measure the success/failure of decisions. This requires that we have enough transparency to know who even made a specific decision.

It is easy to sit out and throw rocks at this effort; but obviously many of you care enough to come in here and comment. I implore you guys to rethink the emotional aspects and consider pitching in once again.
eph