Official DiSTENSiON Thread (Schedule)

[Exalt]

Actually, the only reason you see so many people playing distension is because...they enjoy it? Are you serious? I don't see anyone in there saying "I'm only playing because nothing else is going on". People request it, so please stop talking like we play it out of pity. Don't let your personal biases cloud your judgement. It's popular because people like it, not the other way around.

Yes, some people do enjoy it, and maybe all of them enjoy it, but if you've never looked around at other arenas after distension is hosted, then I can't make things clearer for you. Maybe people should try this after it is hosted. See what's going on.

By the way, the people that argued with me about distension in game (frightful, fis, etc) all admitted being bias toward distension and stated pretty clearly that TW is moving away from pure TW and the engine is driven by events and things like distension now. If that's the case, then do away with TWD and TWL for a year. If TW is still up and running, then you have your point. I think TW would be dead at that point, but people like frightful countered that pub would still be thriving. I'm pretty sure that anyone that has played long enough knows that TWD/TWL is what keeps TW alive, not public (edit: I meant not events* here but oh well), but to each their own. Let me just state that the next few times Distension is hosted, for all of you on the fence with this issue and not actually completely biased toward it, see what happens in the other arenas. There are quite a few people that strongly dislike distension might I add, so you alienate those players when they cannot do anything else but play distension (which gets stale after a while, because even I enjoyed it when it was first made).

There's a reason you guys have to post times and schedule the event and cannot get the best hours to host it. There's a reason it's so controversial, and I'm not the only one that thinks the way I do. I only posted Hockey as an alternative to focus on, due to it being brought up in this thread. Hockey is something I believe would gain a population due to HZ being basically dead, while Distension has been around for what... 4 years? Sure, some people I guess are religiously dedicated to it, but apparently not so much that they wanted to join Distension Zone. They just dont give a shit about the rest of TW and so want to turn TW into Distension Zone 2.0, thinking that with this zone's already high population (BTW, this population wasn't created because of Distension), you will fare better. Possibly you will, but like I said, this zone didn't get it's population due to a relatively NEW event like distension.

BTW: FiS if you can have a discussion about this without SCREAMING AT ME IN BLUE INSIDE THE GAME WITH PEOPLE LIKE FRIGHTFUL AND SOME OTHER RANDOM PUBBERS BLINDLY SUPPORTING YOU WHILE HAVING 77 POSTS TOTAL SINCE 2009 IN THE FORUMS...

Well then, I'll have the discussion. Just don't get so angry simply because I disagree.

Also, I've always stated that I'm not perfect and I can be wrong on things. If I am wrong, I will admit that, but I've yet to see anyone give me logical reasons why I'm wrong. I've only seen people get angrier and angrier the more I stated about why I believe distension isn't a helpful thing. I can only go by my experiences and other player's experiences that I've talked to after distension is being hosted, and those experiences usually are not good. FiS, all you said at the end of your little rant in-game was what do I do to help this game, which I guess you are basically saying "Why are you not staff instead of bitching at staff for fucking up?" which all I can say is why do most veterans in this game absolutely refuse to join staff? There's a huge stigma to it. Beyond that, the few that don't absolutely refuse believe there is a bias within staff recruitment to begin with, so they would never be eligible. Honestly, the majority of the time, I see players join staff who I've never, ever heard of before they became staff, and I posted this on another thread with my inability to see why Lego was hired over the many other potential players. To believe people don't want to help this game is ridiculous, because them even playing for years is due to them loving/wanting this game to survive. People donated real money in an effort to help this game. Sure, there are a lot of talkers and very few doers, but that's because the lack of faith in staff. I've even stated in posts how I believe the current upper-staff members are probably the best I've ever seen in this game since I started in 1999/2000 (somewhere around there). There seems to be a want to do things differently and more efficiently/better, so that is a huge plus. I've stated my support for that. I will ALWAYS state my disagreement with things I see as a mistake, however. I view distension as a mistake simply because of the history of it. Distension zone failed. It would've failed whether Cheese or Demonic ran that show. Distension is an event, not an entire zone worth of content. Trenchwars as a whole should not be suffering from an event. Do I want that event to completely disappear? No. Do I believe that event should be ran during the weekends when TW population is at it's peak? Nope. That population is at it's peak for other reasons than distension. If you find a huge population spike during these SCHEDULED times of distension, then I'll give you credit for it, but don't ruin the rest of TW simply because you love an event so much.

[Frightful]

Yes, some people do enjoy it, and maybe all of them enjoy it, but if you've never looked around at other arenas after distension is hosted, then I can't make things clearer for you. Maybe people should try this after it is hosted. See what's going on.

By the way, the people that argued with me about distension in game (frightful, fis, etc) all admitted being bias toward distension and stated pretty clearly that TW is moving away from pure TW and the engine is driven by events and things like distension now. If that's the case, then do away with TWD and TWL for a year. If TW is still up and running, then you have your point. I think TW would be dead at that point, but people like frightful countered that pub would still be thriving. I'm pretty sure that anyone that has played long enough knows that TWD/TWL is what keeps TW alive, not public, but to each their own. Let me just state that the next few times Distension is hosted, for all of you on the fence with this issue and not actually completely biased toward it, see what happens in the other arenas. There are quite a few people that strongly dislike distension might I add, so you alienate those players when they cannot do anything else but play distension (which gets stale after a while, because even I enjoyed it when it was first made).

There's a reason you guys have to post times and schedule the event and cannot get the best hours to host it. There's a reason it's so controversial, and I'm not the only one that thinks the way I do. I only posted Hockey as an alternative to focus on, due to it being brought up in this thread. Hockey is something I believe would gain a population due to HZ being basically dead, while Distension has been around for what... 4 years? Sure, some people I guess are religiously dedicated to it, but apparently not so much that they wanted to join Distension Zone. They just dont give a shit about the rest of TW and so want to turn TW into Distension Zone 2.0, thinking that with this zone's already high population (BTW, this population wasn't created because of Distension), you will fare better. Possibly you will, but like I said, this zone didn't get it's population due to a relatively NEW event like distension.

BTW: FiS if you can have a discussion about this without SCREAMING AT ME IN BLUE INSIDE THE GAME WITH PEOPLE LIKE FRIGHTFUL AND SOME OTHER RANDOM PUBBERS BLINDLY SUPPORTING YOU WHILE HAVING 77 POSTS TOTAL SINCE 2009 IN THE FORUMS...

Well then, I'll have the discussion. Just don't get so angry simply because I disagree.

Exalt, first of all, I never said anything about events vs TWD, so please don't make things up. They both have their place.

Also, I didn't say pub would be thriving. I simply said there is a significant amount of people who do other things in TW than play TWD.

Since you're so insistent on the idea that "Distension kills TW", please tell me what people would be doing if Distension wasn't running? Sitting in spec chatting? They can't do that if Distension is running? You previously said in chat that TWD dies because of Distension, but when I told you that not many active TWDers even play Distension, you just changed the subject.

For the record, I wasn't "blindly supporting Fis". I was supporting logic and facts, something you seem to be adverse to. Fis asked you a simple question, which you deflected as it didn't agree with your whole argument. Fis typed in caps and you got butthurt. I believe you said "Why does staff keep focusing on Distension and not other things?", to which Fis asked "Why do you think we are focusing on Distension?". You kept asking the same question and Fis kept answering, but obviously you can't read.

-fri

[Exalt]

Exalt, first of all, I never said anything about events vs TWD, so please don't make things up. They both have their place.

Also, I didn't say pub would be thriving. I simply said there is a significant amount of people who do other things in TW than play TWD.

Since you're so insistent on the idea that "Distension kills TW", please tell me what people would be doing if Distension wasn't running? Sitting in spec chatting? They can't do that if Distension is running? You previously said in chat that TWD dies because of Distension, but when I told you that not many active TWDers even play Distension, you just changed the subject.

For the record, I wasn't "blindly supporting Fis". I was supporting logic and facts, something you seem to be adverse to. Fis asked you a simple question, which you deflected as it didn't agree with your whole argument. Fis typed in caps and you got butthurt. I believe you said "Why does staff keep focusing on Distension and not other things?", to which Fis asked "Why do you think we are focusing on Distension?". You kept asking the same question and Fis kept answering, but obviously you can't read.

-fri

Okay, I guess I just made it all up for no reason whatsoever. You never said anything whatsoever. I clearly misquoted you completely, even though it happened 10 minutes ago. I'm certainly known for making things up all the time for no reason whatsoever /sarcasm

I am very insistent on the idea that distension kills the REST of TW (distension is part of TW afterall, but it certainly isn't the only arena). TWD dies during distension. Pub empties. No other events can be hosted. Nothing else is going on in TW while distension is running, except for afking and chatting in spec. That's it. If you disagree, then we can both be there this next week and see the differences before/during/after distension and see who is right. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it. I just do not believe I am wrong, or I would never have brought this up to begin with.

I have always been pro-TW and anything that HELPS the population of TW I am for. I have never seen distension help the population (and I don't believe the few religiously dedicated distension players should speak for the majority of non-distension players). Since the VOCAL staff members seem to be supportive of distension, someone who is vocally on the opposite side should speak up too. Kthx used to be that person, but he's MIA for a lil bit.

Also, to answer your question about what would people be doing other than distension... they'd do whatever they do when they log into TW when distension isn't running. Yes, TW has other things in the zone beyond distension. What do they do when distension is running? They either A) play distension B) go afk or C) log off. There is no other option, and that's exactly what I have a problem with.

Also, stop attacking me personally, because your logic is already fucked due to your inability to debate without personal attacks. It's quite pathetic actually, and I'm positive that you have much less to offer TW with your biased opinions than anyone else. Also, your inability to admit things you've said, inability to admit you could be wrong, and inability to give a fuck about TW population as a whole speaks for itself. You have nothing to offer this discussion beyond your selfish love for one event. You don't give a fuck about this game beyond that, so go whine about how mean old Exalt is while playing Distension. At least one of us thinks outside of just one event, and has proven to give a fuck about this zone beyond their blind support for that aforementioned event. I could be wrong though, and maybe your 77 total posts since 2009 were all glorious and amazingly logical. Maybe you are right and everyone else is the biased one, like you keep stating.

[Shaddowknight]

TW won't be stepping on HZ's toes, as we have an agreement. Being both SSC zones we intend to hold true to that. There's been talks of moving away from the SSC (as the cons far outweigh the pros of it anymore these days IMO) and getting our own biller. Should that happen we would be free to do whatever events and leagues we wished. You could look at it like moving out of your parents house, throwing a party, and letting a hooker live in your basement (aka: all the things you couldn't do before).


As far as hockey/dist goes. The bots are unable to peacefully coexist, but that does not mean both events can not be run simultaneously. Any staffer who knows hockey can host it manually still to appease those who still wish to play hockey. Dist being run every day can be something, perhaps putting one dedicated "off day" where it's not to be hosted would help with this, and would still be completely fair IMO.

[Frightful]

Okay, I guess I just made it all up for no reason whatsoever. You never said anything whatsoever. I clearly misquoted you completely, even though it happened 10 minutes ago. I'm certainly known for making things up all the time for no reason whatsoever /sarcasm

I am very insistent on the idea that distension kills the REST of TW (distension is part of TW afterall, but it certainly isn't the only arena). TWD dies during distension. Pub empties. No other events can be hosted. Nothing else is going on in TW while distension is running, except for afking and chatting in spec. That's it. If you disagree, then we can both be there this next week and see the differences before/during/after distension and see who is right. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it. I just do not believe I am wrong, or I would never have brought this up to begin with.

I have always been pro-TW and anything that HELPS the population of TW I am for. I have never seen distension help the population (and I don't believe the few religiously dedicated distension players should speak for the majority of non-distension players). Since the VOCAL staff members seem to be supportive of distension, someone who is vocally on the opposite side should speak up too. Kthx used to be that person, but he's MIA for a lil bit.

Also, to answer your question about what would people be doing other than distension... they'd do whatever they do when they log into TW when distension isn't running. What do they do when distension is running? They either A) play distension B) go afk or C) log off. There is no other option, and that's exactly what I have a problem with.

It amazes me how you can say so much without really saying anything...

[Exalt]

TW won't be stepping on HZ's toes, as we have an agreement. Being both SSC zones we intend to hold true to that. There's been talks of moving away from the SSC (as the cons far outweigh the pros of it anymore these days IMO) and getting our own biller. Should that happen we would be free to do whatever events and leagues we wished. You could look at it like moving out of your parents house, throwing a party, and letting a hooker live in your basement (aka: all the things you couldn't do before).

Yes, I've already known about this. I still fail to see why we are in agreement with SSC zones whatsoever, when we are the only viable SSC zone left beyond perhaps the 40 people that play EG regularly. Trenchwars has leverage, so why are we not using that leverage? We can let other SSC zones go down with their sinking ships all they want, but we shouldn't have to abide by that. As I understand it, the only reason we haven't moved yet is due to A) cost, which is negligible due to donation money that won't ever be used in any other way beyond paying players like 24 or Arobas to do absolutely nothing while they pretend to be building some amazing website that never got started and B) the fear that people will quit forever once they have to wait for a small down-time in moving everything over. B) might be viable, but personally, I don't see any reason to wait until TW is completely dead to do something that is far too little too late. You do it not or you never do it, and at that point, we admit defeat (and then i dont see why we cant tell SSC to fuck off, not like they have the power to do anything that time wouldn't anyways).

As far as hockey/dist goes. The bots are unable to peacefully coexist, but that does not mean both events can not be run simultaneously. Any staffer who knows hockey can host it manually still to appease those who still wish to play hockey. Dist being run every day can be something, perhaps putting one dedicated "off day" where it's not to be hosted would help with this, and would still be completely fair IMO.

Why don't staff create a "schedule" for hockey then? Where is the Official HoCKeY Thread (Schedule) in forums? I fail to see it. I'm glad distension doesn't crack the entire fucking server anymore, but I never liked any of the side-effects of the event. There's a reason Cheese tried making it into a zone that was separate from TW. It didn't catch on for a reason. Also, there aren't that many staffers that "know" hockey as Ephemeral pointed out in another thread. If you want to run Distension every single day, be my guest, but do it on weekdays and not on the weekends when TWL is being run. There is a large spike in population due to TWL, and it seems players like frightful would rather say that the spike is due to distension instead. TWD is also most active during weekends, and all of those things are killed by distension being hosted. I'm sure your 20 or so dedicated distension players will bitch up a storm, but the rest of TW probably won't even notice if distension isn't hosted on weekends. At the very least, don't host it on Sundays. Leave that for leagues. It is why you have such a huge population increase on Sundays to begin with.

It amazes me how you can say so much without really saying anything...

You are so useless that I don't really have anything left to say to you. Congratz on almost hitting 80 posts in 5 years.

[Frightful]

Why don't staff create a "schedule" for hockey then? Where is the Official HoCKeY Thread (Schedule) in forums? I fail to see it. I'm glad distension doesn't crack the entire fucking server anymore, but I never liked any of the side-effects of the event. There's a reason Cheese tried making it into a zone that was separate from TW. It didn't catch on for a reason. Also, there aren't that many staffers that "know" hockey as Ephemeral pointed out in another thread. If you want to run Distension every single day, be my guest, but do it on weekdays and not on the weekends when TWL is being run. There is a large spike in population due to TWL, and it seems players like frightful would rather say that the spike is due to distension instead. TWD is also most active during weekends, and all of those things are killed by distension being hosted. I'm sure your 20 or so dedicated distension players will bitch up a storm, but the rest of TW probably won't even notice if distension isn't hosted on weekends. At the very least, don't host it on Sundays. Leave that for leagues. It is why you have such a huge population increase on Sundays to begin with.

Exalt, aside from the fact that you've proven to be an idiot, you're also quite ridiculous. Of course the population spike on TWL weekend is from TWL. Once again, though, please explain to me how Distension interferes with TWD. Very few active TWD players even take part in Distension. You are making an argument just to have an argument.

You are so useless that I don't really have anything left to say to you. Congratz on almost hitting 80 posts in 5 years.

Is that really supposed to be an insult? "You don't post on an internet forum...what a loser!"

[qan]

All it does is take away from everything that IS sustainable in trenchwars. Let's all agree on this fact.

Let's all agree to a "fact" presented without any evidence whatsoever? I expected a lot more out of you, Exalt. Heard this broken record OVER and OVER and every time with absolutely nothing to support it. Sorry man, but it's just not true that because people switch over to play Distension instead of league or hockey (which are able to be hosted 24 hours a day and 22-24 hours a day, respectively, to Distension's 2) that it drives down the zone's survivability. Any novice of sophistry can tell you that it can just as easily be argued the other way, and simply saying it's one way or the other means ... exactly nothing.

Distension has a following of experienced players, who play it very competitively. (Hope that's cool to link, wick.) It's often very intense basing, and it's played in some ways with as much concentration and fervor as league has ever been.

But you would have been saved the embarrassment of having to be told this if you had played Distension even once in the last couple years. (I just checked the DB; you haven't). Maybe you played it before that, or on an alias? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you have.

But if you haven't ever actually played Distension for more than 10 minutes, especially not recently, let me ask you this: where do you base your opinion on what the game is or is not? How could you know what it could possibly mean to its players, or to the zone, except from an extremely limited standpoint?

They don't enter TW for distension. Trust me on that one.

Guess that all the people I've talked to since it's been down in the summer who tell me their friends quit playing SS entirely because Dist stopped running were all in my head. (Guess what: I don't trust you on that one.) Here's what I do trust you on: that you wish they didn't.

[Fusha]

Distension is a very fun game, but I believe that the 1-minute rounds are making it a bit less fun. A team's terr could die at the start of the round, and then the round would be over soon eough. It seems very anticlimatic, compared to how long ballgames last.

When we get two-side rounds, the game becomes much funnen; even though there isn't much difference in the amount of players. Two-base rounds have a longer timer, even though it is much easer to reset the timer for the teams, and are just better.

I propose changing the 1-minute timer to at least 2 minutes.

[Exalt]

Exalt, aside from the fact that you've proven to be an idiot, you're also quite ridiculous. Of course the population spike on TWL weekend is from TWL. Once again, though, please explain to me how Distension interferes with TWD. Very few active TWD players even take part in Distension. You are making an argument just to have an argument. Is that really supposed to be an insult? "You don't post on an internet forum...what a loser!"

Frightful, to be completely honest with you, the only reason I gave you any time of day at all in the beginning was that I assumed you were capable of having an actual discussion whatsoever, but you've proven that is simply out of the question for you. How old are you? 12? 13? Perhaps a very immature 16 year old? I'm done actually responding to you, because your insults are pointless, I don't even know who you are on either forums OR inside the game (meaning you aren't someone WORTH knowing to begin with, let alone someone with enough pull or an agenda outside of trying to troll), and honestly I only even brought you up because I assumed someone who I actually respect as a staff member/player like FIS thought you were a viable person for some reason. I now realize that FiS only allowed you to speak due to 1) being staff and not a complete asshole and 2) because you supported his ideas somewhat. You still seem to think this is all about insulting and trolling, and so please, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up. Nobody else is listening or paying attention to you for a reason. Just do yourself the favor and stop. Go play distension (which is the only thing you seem to care about anyways) and leave the actual discussions to the adults and the people with enough pull and respect of each other to talk like adults. You are incapable, so just shut the fuck up already. I'll let everyone else in the zone own you themselves. I just hope you don't kill yourself after all the people that respect me over you simply due to longevity, friendship, and actual knowledge of who I am compared to some random nobody (I mean that in the least deragatory way possible, since there are nobodies in this forum/game that I respect and listen to their opinions, like Spock! for instance). Just stop. If I knew how to ignore people in this forum (I've never actually had to do this before to know how), I'd just ignore you like I have inside subspace, but I'm hoping that one day you will provide something intellegent to say in the future (maybe in another 5 years) so that I can not have to lose IQ simply by reading anything you say.

Let's all agree to a "fact" presented without any evidence whatsoever? I expected a lot more out of you, Exalt. Heard this broken record OVER and OVER and every time with absolutely nothing to support it. Sorry man, but it's just not true that because people switch over to play Distension instead of league or hockey (which are able to be hosted 24 hours a day and 22-24 hours a day, respectively, to Distension's 2) that it drives down the zone's survivability. Any novice of sophistry can tell you that it can just as easily be argued the other way, and simply saying it's one way or the other means ... exactly nothing.

Qan, as you well know, I respect you as a player and as a person with progressive ideas i this game, so YOU (rather than that idiot frightful) I will listen to, and I respect your opinions, so that being said, I will start by respectfully disagreeing with you. You are at least someone worth having this discussion with, so I'll attempt that. Due me the favor though, and assume that I do know enough of what I'm talking about to a point where I wouldn't be making the claims that I make with no evidence and for no reasons whatsoever. If I didn't truly believe the things I've been saying, then I'm pretty sure you know that I wouldn't be saying them. You know how I work well enough to at least be able to make this assumption. That being said, let us continue.

You are basically telling me to provide evidence for my point of view, while nobody wants to provide evidence for theirs, which is basically the "opposite" of what I'm saying. Can I legitimate provide hard-copy proof of what happens during distension? No, not at the moment. I only go by my experiences every time I see distension run. Perhaps, distension is such a fun event that everything else stops due to everyone wanting to play distension. That is a possibility, one that I am willing to concede as a possibility, but due to my dislike of distension (and not because of the fundamental aspects of the event, but due to the side-effects of it), I can only point out my experiences that I've seen and the experiences of other players that agree with my side of things due to them also not liking distension. Also, at least admit that I am not saying get rid of distension entirely. I only want to get rid of it during Sundays, because everyone with common sense knows that Sundays spike in popularity due to TWL. It is not due to Distension. Can we agree on THIS "fact" or are we going to have to argue that point too? You tell me.

Qan, I respect you a lot, and so yes, perhaps I made a brash judgement call this morning about my distaste for distension. It isn't a person hatred for the event due to the vent though. I strongly dislike distension due to my experiences in the game while distension is hosted. It SEEMS to me that everything else inside TW suffers while Distension is running. This may not be a big issue to anyone/everyone that simply enjoys distension for what it is (which for what it is, it is a great event/concept). I agree it has a lot of potential, and even I enjoyed it when it was first hosted. My FIRST complaint back in the day of distension was that it constantly crashed the servers. Apparently, that issue has been fixed while I was gone the last 4 or so years. I'm happy that it has been. I will state that off the bat. Okay? Distension - 1 Exalt - 0 right there. We good so far?

Now, what evidence would you like me to prove? You could call it a theory of mine if you are unwilling to call it a fact, but it is a theory I would not even propose if it was not based on truth. It is simply what I've noticed everytime I see distension run. Perhaps you have never checked up on this because you have not needed to? You are the one who created distension anyways afterall, no? This is another one of your baby's, so let us also admit it is something you'll be naturally biased for, correct? Have you EVER actually checked up on the state of TW while distension is running? Have you ever checked up on the statistic side of it, or like me, used the "eye test" to see? No, my "fact" isn't based on actual statistics, because I don't have the means of measuring it. All I have are my eyes and the general "feeling" that other players and myself who aren't distension players perceive while distension is running. It SEEMS to me that all the other arenas tend to shut down once distension is running. Things like TWD, which I admit I am a very strong supporter of, shut down completely during distension. Hockey shuts down completely during distension, which is another "event" that I am a supporter of. Public tends to empty it's population during distension, which is usually my "last resort" kind of thing to play in TW, but I still enjoy it sometimes, yet I cannot enjoy it during distension do to it being empty. Elim is another arena I enjoy, but I cannot play that either during distension, because it is empty while distension is hosted. WBDUEL is another arena I enjoy, but that arena is also always empty during distension. I could keep going, but basically what I am explaining to you is that ALL the arenas/events/subgames within TW that I log in to play inside TW becomes stagnant/empty during distension, and therefore me personally, I am unable to enjoy TW at all (aside from possibly specing in a random arena and chatting with friends) during the times that distension is running. I simply do not like distension, and yet the entire POINT of trenchwars is the VERSATILITY in what is going on. Not everyone enjoys events, and even if you gain a large crowd in those events, the REST of TW does NOT shut down simply due to that event being hosted. Sure, public/elim/twd/wbduel/etc might not have as many players during some really, really enjoyable events (such as ww3 for instance), but they are never completely shut down due to those events. Now, distension? Everything shuts down for it, and that is a problem in my eyes. I KNOW I am not the only player that dislikes distension (i don't dislike the event or think it is bad in and of itself. it is well coded and quite original in it's concept. I however started playing subspace/TW and continue to do so because it is a SKILL game, and distension tends to be more of a "who plays the most and has the highest experience "level" so to speak rather than who is the best player due to pure skill). That is not really my cup of tea, and that being said, I don't enjoy it when all the things that ARE my cup of tea in TW are ruined to to that one event being hosted. NOW I get to see that EVERY SINGLE DAY I will lose out on possibly enjoying Trenchwars, because the supporters of TW seem to have such a vocal crowd of staff members to have made that happen. I dislike it.

I apologize if that hurts feelings, and Qan trust me, you are the last person in this game that I want to hurt, due to my large respect for everything you've done and continue to try to do to make this game better. Trust me when I say I am in your corner. I simply cannot agree with this distension thing. We will have to respectfully disagree on it.

I realize that you want concrete proof of what I am saying, but you also realize there isn't many ways for me to provide that proof. Not without logging in everyday during the times distension is being ran (and trust me, usually I log off immediately or go afk when distension is running, because I don't enjoy waiting hours and hours for that event to end before I can actually play in the arenas I DO enjoy). I COULD do this, and everyday I do it, I can post legitimate statistics of the zone population, and the popuation of other arenas while distension is being run. I suppose I could even check up on the population BEFORE distension, DURING distension, and AFTER distension. I could do that, but it is a LOT of work for something that highly doubt will change the minds of the people that matter. Why would you even change your mind should I show you legitimate proof of my claims? Distension is your baby. You want it to succeed despite any objections I have. I don't see why you are so against be being on the opposite side of the distension discussions though, and I highly dislike how I am being attacked by distension lovers so viciously, simply because I show an alternative opinion to it. Two of the staff members that I respect the most (and the list of staff members I literally do respect and acknowledge as not being total fucking useless idiots is pretty small to be honest) have both attacked me pretty visciously and in an emotionally-compromised state. It is as if they do not even want to discuss it whatsoever. I find that to be suspect in and of itself, when staff members who are generally knowledgeable and understanding tend to ignore or go batshit crazy anytime someone says they don't like distension or at least (in my case) don't like the negative side-effects that distension seems to provide.

Distension has a following of experienced players, who play it very competitively. (Hope that's cool to link, wick.) It's often very intense basing, and it's played in some ways with as much concentration and fervor as league has ever been.

I never argued this point Qan. I simply argued that there are a very large anti-distension group as well, and yet nobody on staff seem to acknowledge or care about their viewpoints or feelings on the subject. I know that a large majority of the players in my chats (for instance) that see adverts for distension almost immediately say "alright, time to go afk or log off, no TWD/elim/wbduel/hockey for the next few hours. See everyone tomorrow." That literally happens. I dislike it, because distension lovers seem to think that distension is why TW is successful whatsoever, and that all the 10 year vets should be ignored and alienated because a lot of non-twd players love distension. I'm glad and proud of distension for being such a popular thing, and yes Qan, I realize that you created it. The fact that you created it alone means it is a quality event, unlike some of them out there. That being said, distension DOES alienate a lot of the veterans who have stuck around in this game for over a decade now, and I truly believe that those veterans are the reason this game is still alive to begin with. Sure, the "newer" generation of players certainly add to it, but they aren't the only ones who play TW, and TW would never have survived as "well" as it has (I quote that "well" because TW is definitely on it's last legs these days) if public and events were the only thing that TW had to offer. A LOT of people tend to graduate from public once they get good enough. Not everyone does, and I recognize there are quite a few "pure pubbers" who stick around simply for public and events, but in my personal opinion (yes, my opinion, I didn't say fact here), those players tend to be the ones who never fully either A) dedicated themselves to get better (this is a very hard game to master and get good at, it is a grind fest of getting owned for a very long time before you get good enough to compete with the top-tier squads in TWD/TWL) or B) are casual players who don't log in as much as some of the TWD veterans do. I also don't view distension as being the reason TW has had such longevity. It is a fairly new event, and even though it DOES have a very loyal following, it is certainly not the be-all end-all to why TW is successful. Personally, I use the Distension Zone as a very good "fact" to point out that Distension does not have sustainability. If people loved distension SO DAMN MUCH than why did absolutely NOBODY play Distension Zone? Sure, Cheese is highly disliked and is probably a bigger idiot than I even know about, but it was still a well-coded zone that Cheese spent years on. Did it ever even gain a slight population at any point during it's lifespan? I certainly don't remember it ever gaining even a small minority of players to cross over to play distension there, even when distension was completely scrapped from TW do to it constantly fucking the servers up back 5 years ago when you first created it Qan. I certainly don't remember people quitting TW because they couldn't get distension. I DO remember when a lot of distension lovers tried getting public to be switched over to being distension, and staff luckily disagreed. Why did they disagree? Were you there for that meeting? I certainly wasn't, but I'd like to hear your side of the story, if you are willing to share it?

But you would have been saved the embarrassment of having to be told this if you had played Distension even once in the last couple years. (I just checked the DB; you haven't). Maybe you played it before that, or on an alias? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you have.

But if you haven't ever actually played Distension for more than 10 minutes, especially not recently, let me ask you this: where do you base your opinion on what the game is or is not? How could you know what it could possibly mean to its players, or to the zone, except from an extremely limited standpoint?


Guess that all the people I've talked to since it's been down in the summer who tell me their friends quit playing SS entirely because Dist stopped running were all in my head. (Guess what: I don't trust you on that one.) Here's what I do trust you on: that you wish they didn't.

You are right that I have not played Distension in the last couple of months. I played Distension back in the very beginning, when many of the kinks were still being worked out. I enjoyed it somewhat, but I found that it was not my cup of tea. It is completely opposite of what TW really stands for, in that it copies hyperspace and mystic kingdom-type zones with it's RPG elements and ship upgrades, while it keeps the much-prefered TW settings in a lot of ways. What I dislike so much about distension is that it isn't more about skill level rather than who has the best upgrades, aka who plays it the most. If I wanted a subspace RPG game, I would've joined Hyperspace when that was a largely populated zone back in 2001, or perhaps Mystic Kingdom back then as well. I did not, because I did not like the RPG elements in a game that appealed to me simply due to it being all about SKILL and competition based on EQUALITY in everything EXCEPT skill-level. This is why I kept playing throughout the years. Also, TWD was created in around 2002ish that made things even better on that end, because the best squads had something to show for it. Then there was TWL, which was the ultimate test of skill not only individually but as a squad as a whole. These kinds of things kept me around playing TW for the last 14-15 years. I suppose I can lower that down to 11 years due to me being gone for 4 years, but I quit after seeing TW have a poplation of about 13 total players, when about 10 of them in spec. I literally viewed this game as dead, and so when I redownloaded subspace again a little less than 2 weeks ago, I was greatly surprised and PLEASED to see that the population had INCREASED from what I saw 4 years ago when I finally quit for good (or so I had thought at the time).

I don't know if I'm making a whole lot of sense for you Qan, but my basic premise to why I am against Distension is based on the fact (or at least, a fact in my eyes, perhapsy you can call it a HYPOTHESIS or THEORY if you'd like) that everything else in TW dies or stagnates while distension is being run. Due to my dislike of distension as an event for reasons I've already named, this basically ruins my experience inside of TW for the duration that distension runs. Now, as I have admitted I have not played distension in the last few months (partly because I was gone, and party because I have always disliked Distension to a certain degree as an event, because I don't have fun in it) so I could be wrong on a few things, and IF I am, I will be the first to admit that. I have simply noticed the last few times distension was running, that everything that I enjoy playing in TW simply stopped. TWD, elim, wbduel, even public stopped. That ruins TW for me as a player, and I KNOW I am not the only one that thinks this way. Trust me in me telling you this Qan.

Even despite all of that Qan, IF for some reason, Distension managed to add population to this zone, and it was somehow proven to me that distension is sustainable as a MAIN ACT rather than a sideshow that kind of destroys the main act and basic premise of what pure TW stands for, then I will conceed and remove all my thoughts and ideas against Distension. It will not get me to PLAY distension, and perhaps I will just quit this game again due to not being able to enjoy my classic TW anymore, but I will conceed then that Distension is a valuable thing to have in TW, and I'll probably just go join staff (and thus not play the game anymore, like most staff members). I will then just focus on other ways to improve the game and the population, which is really what I care the most about.

You know this Qan. You know how much I care about keeping TW alive. If Distension was a way to do that, then I would start supporting it. You attack me by asking for proof of my accusations, but nobody on your side of things have given proof to the contrary either. I'm tired of this flame war that's going on though. I don't see my posts as attacking Distension in a flame war shitfest kind of way, but instead I get players like frightful attacking my character, intelligence, and everything else simply for disagreeing with their beloved distension zone. I have not even heard of frightful before today, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I simply question is motives, and I question whether he actually gives a fuck about the longevity or future of TW beyond his beloved EVENT. YOU however Qan, I DO KNOW for a FACT that you do give a fuck about subspace and TW as an entire WHOLE beyond just Distension, which is why I am able to listen to you and take in your arguments against my opinions. That being said, before you attack me on my "proof" of things in such a strawman sort of way, at least provide proof yourself for why I am wrong.

[roxxkatt]

Is that really supposed to be an insult? "You don't post on an internet forum...what a loser!"

the clique of idiots he comes from have thought this was an insult for years



another thing they are terrible at is basic fact checking, such as paying attention to events hosted after dist ends, and having the basic ability to count
they also love to make incorrect statements about things they dont know anything about and try to use them as insults




its pretty hilarious

[Exalt]

the clique of idiots he comes from have thought this was an insult for years



another thing they are terrible at is basic fact checking, such as paying attention to events hosted after dist ends, and having the basic ability to count
they also love to make incorrect statements about things they dont know anything about and try to use them as insults




its pretty hilarious

Cheese, you are the last person in this whole Distension discussion that has any opinions worth listening to. You created the Distension Zone, which you seem to be pretty proud of due to you having in your forum sig for the last however many years, even though you were bad on so many levels as a leader/owner/staff member of that zone where you couldn't literally find even a SMALL population to ever play that dead zone of yours. Aside from my personal viewpoints of you (which in my posts, I have used your name, and not entirely in a derogatory way, not that any of it was completely supportive of you either), it seems that everyone that I have discussed Distension with have basically said they never played Distension Zone due to you being a complete fucking moron/jackass/unintellectual retarded idiot in so many words. Literally EVERYONE that I've spoken to that are completely pro-distension have stated you are a waste of space, and so they never wanted to even TRY your bad zone due to YOU.

Either way though, please, continue to prove me right with your personal attacks, and continue to agree with players like frightful whose only way of discussing anything is to attack those with opposite viewpoints through personal attacks. If I wanted to get into a flame war, I'd just point out the billion other reasons why nobody in the game respects you whatsoever on any level, especially the people that SHOULD be supporting you. I won't do that however, because literally nobody inside the game or outside the game in TW forums or even the general Subspace.net forums respects you whatsoever. Therefore, I won't say anything else.

What I meant with frightful and his forum posts was that half of his 79 posts in 5 years seem to be only in this distension thread, and all of them had personal attacks on my character or intelligence, rather than saying anything productive or worthwhile whatsoever. Probably the same goes for you Cheese!. Actually, I'm pretty sure half of your posts were all attacks against KTHX as well, for attacking your beloved Distension zone as well, and your responses were always flame-war trolling attacks on his character/intelligence/personality/looks too. People like you should leave actual discussions about TW to adults who have legitimate concerns and opinions. Like I told frightful, go cry and whine about mean old Exalt because he dislikes Distension and dislikes the negative side-effects that distension has inside his favorite and beloved zone Trenchwars.

Let us not forget Cheese!, that the only reason you are generally known is for your huge failure in that Distension Zone of yours, which has proven to be a huge failure. I'm not exactly sure why it was such a failure, as my understanding is that you're generally accepted as a half-decent coder. I personally believe your shortcomings all come from not only your personality and character (which are all suspect at best), but also your general lack of leadership skills, lack of intelligent conversational skills, and lack of ability to keep things in a positive light while debating anything at all.

Oh, and I wont apologize for bashing and basically writing-off anyone like you or frightful that cannot post a coherent idea or debate logically without resorting to the usual sore-loser type aspects such as "OMG WHAT A DUMB FUCK LOSER HE IS SO UNINTELLIGENT HE SAYS NOTHING SMART I AM SO MUCH SMARTER! OMGZ HE DISLIKES DISTENSION OMGZ! WHAT A DUMMY! DISTENSION IS WHY TRENCHWARS IS ALIVE AT ALL! DISTENSION IS THE ONLY GOOD THING SUBSPACE HAS! OMG EXALT IS SPEAKING? LET'S CALL HIM NAMES AND TRY TO DERAIL ANY INTELLIGENT CONVERSATIONS BCUZ WE CANNOT ACTUALLY DEBATE WITH INTELLIGENT FACTS OURSELVES! DSLFJS:FJSD"

Anyways, this is why literally everyone, including myself, respect a player like Qan (who created distension might add, which you should give credit for in your stupid forum signature rather than acting like you created it all these years due to creating that fucking horrible zone of yours), while absolutely nobody respects a player like yourself.

[LF]

Since everyone is talking about stats and proof about how distension both hurts/helps TW based on what side or the argument you are on, I took it upon myself to actually do some fact checking before/during/after the most recent hosting on 2/17/14 at about 8PM EST. Mind you this is only stats from 1 particular host, a rather small sample size but I intend to do more fact gathering in the future.

JAVDUEL

During the entire day leading up to distension, the only game of javduel that was played was 20 hours earlier right after midnight. No games were played during distension. 1 game started immediately after distension ended. http://www.trenchwars.org/javduel Conclusion: No Negative Impact/Potential Positive Impact

WBDUEL

A total of zero games of wbduel were played during the day, no games happened during distension, it wasn't until 2-3 hours after distension had ended that the only 3 games of the day took place. http://www.trenchwars.org/wbduel Conclusion: No impact

Pub

While I don't have a link to post as empirical proof, I can say from first hand experience by actually observing these numbers first hand tonight since I've been observing this thread from the shadows and wanted to respond with actual proof. All times are EST...

7:30 PM - Pub has 79 people in the arena, 34 of which are actually playing (14v12v5v2v1)
Distension Start time 8:00 - Pub has 77 people in the arena, 29 of which are actually playing (13v13v1v1v1)
8:30 - Pub has 77 people in the arena, 29 of which are playing (16v12v1)
Distension End Time 9:00 - Pub has 83 people in the arena, 24 that are playing (11v10v3)
9:30 - Pub has 77 in the arena, 22 playing (12v11v1)

Conclusion: From 30 minutes prior to 30 minutes after the host, (active) pub population swayed by a total of 12 people, 7 of which didn't happen until AFTER the event had ended. Pub certainly did not die, but form your own conclusion.

TWD

In the hour leading up to distension, there were 3 twd games total that were played.
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076370
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076371
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076373

During the hour of distension, there were 4 twd games total that were played.
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076374
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076375
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076376
http://twd.trenchwars.org/showgame/90076377

The hour that immediately followed distension, there were 0 games played.

Conclusion: Absolutely no effect on TWD activity during the host, afterwards perhaps people sign off instead of sticking around to play twd? Perhaps a lot of the players that play distension aren't even on a twd squad (Why not?, some of them would make great recruits)

Hockey

Can't really fight anybody on this one, the fact that Dbot and Hockeybot cannot live together in harmony is unfortunate and beyond my realm of comprehension. I know bots but I do not know anything of the coding that goes into them. A viable solution has already been mentioned if the hardcore hockey guys don't think 22 hours a day is enough time, host it manually (Its really really simple) If you can't find anybody that wants to I'm sure that it can be arranged with the deans to give somebody staff access to that arena only to manually host games during distension hours.



In the end distension is the red headed stepchild of TW. You either hate him because he's ginger and everybody knows gingers don't have a soul (Hi Ricko), or you love him for his unique charm and inability to get a legitimate suntan (Hi Kthx). Metaphors aside, since the zone crashes have stopped there is absolutely NO reason to think that distension is the cause that your particular area of interest is not active during host times, regardless of what that area might be aside from hockey (To which a solution has been offered). If you don't like it thats fine, nobody is forcing you to play it. If you haven't played it in years give it a shot! Qan has put a ton of work into it to make it more suitable for players that are just getting started. The only thing I would suggest is to ?ignore Cheese! before playing because the guy is borderline retarded, but aside from that it really it a lot of fun.

[LF]

Distension is a very fun game, but I believe that the 1-minute rounds are making it a bit less fun. A team's terr could die at the start of the round, and then the round would be over soon eough. It seems very anticlimatic, compared to how long ballgames last.

When we get two-side rounds, the game becomes much funnen; even though there isn't much difference in the amount of players. Two-base rounds have a longer timer, even though it is much easer to reset the timer for the teams, and are just better.

I propose changing the 1-minute timer to at least 2 minutes.

In regards to the fairness of the teams this is something than qan and I have been talking about and have every intention of trying to fix. I am aware that for the past 2 weeks or so that freq 1 has earned probably close to 40x more RP than Freq 0 overall due to the lopsided games that have been occuring day in and day out. This most recent host was 11-1 favoring freq 1. I need to find a way to take some powerful people from freq 1, and exchange them for lower level people on freq 0 on a case by case basis without causing a shitstorm whine fest of "wahhhh now im not getting free RP every 60 seconds wahhhh" and "I dont want to play fair 30 minute rounds I just want the maximum advantage and level up as fast as possible wahhh" I will be at most hostings, and move WILLING people accordingly in an effort to make this more balanced/enjoyable for everybody involved, I promise.

[Exalt]

Thank you LF for taking the time to do this. I certainly didn't want to, but if I HAD to, to either prove my point right or wrong, then I would have. It makes it much easier that you have and will continue to do this. Like I've stated before both on here, and to Qan privately, IF I am wrong, I will admit it. I simply go by what my perception of things have been, and the perception of those on my side of the coin.

Anyways, thank you LF, even if you do end up proving me wrong. I still want to see a larger sample size (perhaps a week's worth?), but regardless, good work

I however, disagree with your assessment of the TWD thing. NO TWD games were played after distension. A few were played before, and a few during. NONE were played afterword. I certainly was one of the players who logged off after distension started, as did half of my squad and a lot of other players in my chat. All of my chats are full of TWD players, so you can take that both ways. You could say Distension had either NO EFFECT on TWD, or you can see it from my point of view, where Distension made all the players in TWD LOG OFF either during or after the fact. Some went afk too.