Should we raise resolution limits in TWDD/TWJD?

[PH]

big block of text

you can ask arobas if you want to, i don't really care either way because this cancerhole is just a memory to me now

but i can tell you with certainty that it will be the final nail in twl's, and subsequently the zone's, coffin if anything higher than 1520x855 is allowed for widescreeners this season

[Displaced]

its not about an unfair advantage, its about not having to play with a distorted/stretched picture that is horrible.

like i said before, someone make me a 1440x810 res for a HD4890 and ill stfu about it (which coincidentally is SMALLER than 1440x900, thus leaving me at a DISADVANTAGE)

Also, look at steam stats.. 1680x1050 is the most common widescreen res.


1024 x 768
10.90%
-1.18%

1152 x 864
1.86%
-0.30%

1280 x 720
0.70%
-0.05%

1280 x 768
0.79%
-0.02%

1280 x 800
8.68%
+2.66%

1280 x 960
1.36%
-0.22%

1280 x 1024
17.05%
-1.75%


1360 x 768
1.14%
-0.08%

1366 x 768
5.20%
+0.35%

1440 x 900
11.58%
+1.11%

1600 x 900
2.55%
-0.07%

1600 x 1200
0.86%
-0.10%

1680 x 1050
16.63%
-1.39%

1920 x 1080
10.19%
-0.39%

1920 x 1200
6.00%
+0.24%

Other
4.50%
+1.18%


2048 x 768
1.21%
-0.28%

2304 x 1024
2.11%
-0.25%

2464 x 900
1.06%
-0.14%

2560 x 1024
6.86%
-0.76%

2560 x 1600
0.80%
+0.80%

2640 x 1024
0.73%
-0.04%

2704 x 1050
2.33%
-0.60%

2720 x 1024
1.62%
-0.14%

2880 x 900
1.61%
-0.33%

2880 x 1800
1.95%
+1.95%

2944 x 1080
1.11%
-0.19%

2960 x 1050
8.78%
-1.78%

3040 x 1050
1.05%
-0.03%

3120 x 1050
1.71%
-0.41%

3200 x 1080
6.47%
-0.75%

3200 x 1200
4.50%
-0.76%

3360 x 1050
6.40%
-1.08%

3360 x 1080
1.78%
-0.25%

3360 x 2100
2.86%
+2.86%

3520 x 1200
1.24%
0.00%

3600 x 1080
4.81%
-0.74%

3600 x 1200
1.97%
-0.58%

3840 x 1080
4.18%
-0.09%

3840 x 1200
3.60%
-0.75%

3840 x 2160
1.30%
+1.30%

3840 x 2400
4.03%
+4.03%

5120 x 2880
0.65%
+0.65%

Other
23.28%
+0.51%

[Tigron-X]

You want to bring new people to this game, but expect them to play with crappy laggers?

How significant is the higher ping advantage?

Get some equally skilled warbirds and have them test it out. Do a couple of matches (like 10) with each on the same connection. Then do another 10 with one with a higher ping. And then switch it for another 10. A total of 30 matches.

You can even do a test where a mod tells each player secretly which connection to use, and then interview them after to see if they felt the other player had a connection advantage.


All in all, arguing about this without any data just seems moot.

Seriously, go make a thread about lag. This thread is about res. :\

[Arobas+]

its not about an unfair advantage, its about not having to play with a distorted/stretched picture that is horrible.

No one force you to play full screen, play windowed and you won't have a distorted/stretched game. I play windowed even if I have a 1280x1024 native resolution, so I can code with one hand while basing with my other hand, true story.

Having a bigger resolution will always be unfair for those with a smaller resolution because you see/hear the bullet way before the other with a smaller resolution. Yet, I voted "yes" because we are in 2010, this game is not as it used to be, and to be honest, a good player will stay good and a bad player won't go 10-0 suddenly because he plays with a higher resolution....

[kthx]

Arobas, you have to fix the lag at the same time. Don't you understand that widescreen monitors = cable modems in terms of technology and that nobody uses dialup except like brokenfist and who cares about him?

[Arobas+]

This is not the reality, how many players just set their resolution to the highest resolution permitted for TWD and never change it after? A lot I guess, this is why you don't see higher resolutions in the top 5.

If it was only me, I would have raised the limit already but this game is full of conservators afraid of any changes. Meh i say!

[kthx]

Sure lets raise the resolution limit to 500000x500000 and the ping/s2c limit to 100ms and .5.5 with .3 max weapons. and - is instant specced.

[Burnt]

its not about an unfair advantage, its about not having to play with a distorted/stretched picture that is horrible.

So play windowed mode? There are people who use windowed mode and voted no and if I try windowed mode it seems perfectly playable to me. It may not be about an unfair advantage for you, but that would be the end result for individuals and squads with higher resolutions.

How significant is the larger res advantage?

Get some equally skilled warbirds and have them test it out. Do a couple of matches (like 10) with each on the same res. Then do another 10 with one at a higher res. And then switch it for another 10. A total of 30 matches.

You don't need a test, it's obviously going to be easier to dodge bullets when you see them earlier with higher resolution. It's also obviously easier to aim at people when they are on your screen more often rather than relying on radar. Any test like you suggest would fail anyway because there would be nothing stopping people from not even trying to play well in order to get the result they want.

[Tigron-X]

You don't need a test, it's obviously going to be easier to dodge bullets when you see them earlier with higher resolution. It's also obviously easier to aim at people when they are on your screen more often rather than relying on radar. Any test like you suggest would fail anyway because there would be nothing stopping people from not even trying to play well in order to get the result they want.

It would be a test to see how it affects the outcome of matches. If the "advantage" is significant, then putting a res stipulation for leagues makes sense. If it isn't a significant advantage, then it shouldn't matter.

Are you telling me we can't find at least two honest people that will give it their all just to accumulate data?

All in all, without the data all you have is an assumption. The assumption that is being put forther here is: players with a higher res will have an advantage insofar as to affect the outcome of twdd & twld matches.

While I agree with the logical assertion of the assumption, you do not have the emprical evidence to back it up.

[Stabwound]

1. Yeah, those pub resolution stats are not even close to accurate. That page really shouldn't even be there because it doesn't tell you anything.

2. I've been looking at the TWD/TWL lag limits, and actually yes, they should be made a bit more strict. They ARE more strict than they used to be, ie I used to TWD with 300ms and 4% ploss which would never happen now. Having said that, it's bizarre that the limits now aren't even uniform across TWD->TWL or even across TWD, for example I think the TWJD lag limits are stricter than TWLJ, which is ridiculous. This will probably change soon.

However, lag checking is not accurate in Continuum. You can easily see this by how long ?lag takes to update- I think it's 60 seconds. That's how often the bots/game get updates on lag, too. There's only so much that can be done because of this.

3. Displaced (or anyone else) if you want to use 1440x810 just google/download Powerstrip which lets you set any custom resolution you want. It technically makes it a desktop resolution you can pick from, but that also lets you choose it in Continuum, too. It'll still look like shit fullscreen though. At any rate you can play 1440x1024 or any other resolution you want below the current limits.

This is only an issue when you use your new age monitor that you overpaid for to get 1900x1200 res on. The problem is, the graphics are only distorted because you didn't pay ENOUGH money to buy a monitor that can switch between 16:8 and 4:3 resolutions. My monitor is widescreen, and it does both.

Long story short, didn't you already get your 1440x1028 res already to fix the distortion thing?

Also, people quitting because of a res cap is retarded. They ONLY quit because they don't get their unfair advantage anymore, and so they are being little whiny ass bitches about it.

The only reason to want a res limit change is to gain your unfair advantage in hopes that you will get better at the game somehow. That's it. The game looks like shit whether it's windowed OR fullscreen too, so none of that matters. This game was made in 98, not 2010. That's 12 years ago. Every game from 98 looks like shit now.

The fact of the matter is, the graphics even back then were garbage. They have always been garbage. This game was never really a graphical masterpiece even for it's time, and it just shows it's age even moreso now. To keep saying that you want a res change simply for graphical improvement is retarded at best, and just a plain lie at the worst. You want your unfair advantage, and it's shitty.

Yeah, some 16:9 monitors can display non-native resolutions with bars, but it still looks distorted. And no, the change to 1440x900 resolution cap was not meant to accommodate all widescreen players (if it was, it was an ill-informed change) because it simply allows some laptop players to play fullscreen instead of windowed.

You keep talking about the graphics and this and that, but have you actually tried playing 1440x900 on a monitor with 1920x1200 resolution? Seriously, try it. It looks like you're playing while wearing really smudged up glasses and it's stretched out. Have you ever tried watching standard definition TV on an HD television? Imagine it like that, except instead of putting bars on the sides, it just stretches it to shit. This is a completely different matter from what you're talking about. No one is saying allowing 1920x1200 is going to magically make the game look better, but it DOES stop it from looking like someone sprayed pepper spray in your eyes and told you to play TWD.

It's stupid to have 1920x1200 resolution limit in all arenas except TWD and TWL. Seriously, it's a pain in the ass. You can play in 1920x1200 in elim, but if you get a DD you have to log out and switch resolutions to even go into the arena. The game will automatically disconnect you even if you're just speccing. I think it's obvious that the resolution limits should be uniform across all arenas in the zone.

[Burnt]

i personally have seen around 20 new players quit because of it, and i'm sure that's only a small percentage of the total amount of players that have quit.
/D

What do you mean when you say you've seen them quit? Are you standing over there shoulders while they uninstall the game while telling you they are quiting because of the res limit? When I was captain of Star Lifters and was recruiting people from pub, a lot of people were using too low of a resolution so I told them to increase it and only one person who i can remember (Xanith who voted yes) had an issue with the resolution limit (but he didn't quit.)

It would be a test to see how it affects the outcome of matches. If the "advantage" is significant, then putting a res stipulation for leagues makes sense. If it isn't a significant advantage, then it shouldn't matter.

For a long time there was no res limit, so it has already been tested. I was "testing" it with 1600x1200 res along with most of my squadmates and before that I had 1024x768 res and after the limit I've been using 1280x1024. So I've already tested it for 100s of hours, more testing won't change the conclusion that higher resolution is an advantage.

Are you telling me we can't find at least two honest people that will give it their all just to accumulate data?

Two isn't really enough since it's a 4v4 or 5v5 game. There are just too many variables (a player's skill, are they used to the resolution they are using, are they having a bad/good day, the strategy of the squads, how the player's play together, if people are actually trying) to get reliable data from the method you are proposing.

It's stupid to have 1920x1200 resolution limit in all arenas except TWD and TWL. Seriously, it's a pain in the ass. You can play in 1920x1200 in elim, but if you get a DD you have to log out and switch resolutions to even go into the arena. The game will automatically disconnect you even if you're just speccing.

You get disconnected with 1920x1200 res? I thought you just got locked in spec. No one is making you play on 1920x1200 in the other arenas, if it's a pain to switch then just use a lower resolution all the time. Also you can log out, change your resolution and log back in in the 30 seconds it takes between a game being announced and for people to even start being added. I think it would be stupid not to have a resolution limit which allows more people to play on an even playing field with each other. I mean what's the point of playing if regardless of how good you are you will still be outplayed by people just because they have a higher resolution than you?

[Mythril]

1280x1024 is a huge advantage over 1024x768. How are you gonna tell me 1900x1200 isn't an advantage over 1280x1024? Stop trying to change a game that's been fine for over 10 years. The majority of the best wbs play on 1280x1024, learn to do the same

[Turban]

What do you mean when you say you've seen them quit?

by that i mean i've seen several times a new player complain about the resolution limits in twd, then never returning again (not even on an alias). basically they say "fuck this game if i can't play on my native resolution" and find a new game to play. this happens once in a while, you may not notice it that often (if at all) -- but it indeed does happen, i can guarantee you that.

comparing 1280x1024 vs 1024x768 with 1920x1200 vs 1280x1024 is a bit silly if you ask me. 1920x1200 is not going to give as huge advantage against 1280x1024 as you guys think, but it's an advantage none the less in warbirds (and warbirds ONLY). but who cares about that ship. :fear:

[Tigron-X]

For a long time there was no res limit, so it has already been tested. I was "testing" it with 1600x1200 res along with most of my squadmates and before that I had 1024x768 res and after the limit I've been using 1280x1024. So I've already tested it for 100s of hours, more testing won't change the conclusion that higher resolution is an advantage.



Two isn't really enough since it's a 4v4 or 5v5 game. There are just too many variables (a player's skill, are they used to the resolution they are using, are they having a bad/good day, the strategy of the squads, how the player's play together, if people are actually trying) to get reliable data from the method you are proposing.

Ok, show me the data of your "tests."

I didn't say just use 1vs1. You were being argumentative in your earlier post by asserting there are no honest people here.

But, you have to get data from 1v1 also -- just to be clear. You don't need to go all the way up to 4v4 or 5v5. 3v3 would be enough to get a sample of ranged battles.


You can write an essay, hell even a book, on how right you think your assumption is. You can throw the logic at me all day long. And, in the end, I'll agree that your logic is sound. But, without the data, you don't have proof.

Show me the proof.

There is no reason to discuss this further without the data.

[Jones]

Ok, show me the data of your "tests."

I didn't say just use 1vs1. You were being argumentative in your earlier post by asserting there are no honest people here.

But, you have to get data from 1v1 also -- just to be clear. You don't need to go all the way up to 4v4 or 5v5. 3v3 would be enough to get a sample of ranged battles.


You can write an essay, hell even a book, on how right you think your assumption is. You can throw the logic at me all day long. And, in the end, I'll agree that your logic is sound. But, without the data, you don't have proof.

Show me the proof.

There is no reason to discuss this further without the data.

here we go (date: 04-09-2009 12:49 PM):

so i randomly decided to try 1680x1050 the other day and i won elim with 4:1 ratio

points to note:

pros
-total immunity vs rushes
-5 seconds more time to dodge shots on my screen (which would have been a radar battle with 1280.)
-lag was easier to deal with
-overall more consistent slow gamestyle
-rushes were easy to pull off because of the greater visual effects

cons
-lag was still a bitch to deal with
-harder to hit (more aim needed, personal problem, not res)
-lower fps (doesnt matter)
-people ran away more often

Conclusion: As you can see, the advantage gained from higher resolution is vastly superior, the only problems with it was personal usage, meaning: inexperienced usage of higher resolution and mediocre players can't pull of rushes that would work on lower res but doesn't work on higher because they are not doing it right.